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Posted by: GA Secretary Sat, 04 Dec 2004 8:05 pm

This is my Nisai Ranchu. Please let me know what you think.

Posted by: Frankie Sun, 05 Dec 2004 7:51 am

could have been a better fish
pity it wasn't brought up well

Posted by: Frankie Sun, 05 Dec 2004 7:51 am

Superb!
nice head, tail is good, body length a bit short but ok.
can you share how do you groom this ranchu? so that we can learn.

Posted by: GA Secretary Sun, 05 Dec 2004 9:09 am

Very interesting ! Please let me know what you think went wrong. How would you have developed this Ranchu ?

Posted by: Frankie Sun, 05 Dec 2004 11:58 am

Very nice Nisai. Should be a wonderful Oya.
I love the texture, extremely outstanding!
Just curious, have the fish been stressed?

Posted by: Frankie Sun, 05 Dec 2004 1:25 pm

looks clumsy, rather than a sleek powerful swimmer

how did you raise this fish? how long has this fish been with you?

Posted by: GA Secretary Sun, 05 Dec 2004 5:58 pm

OK, you told me something is not good. I hope to learn from you why. I asked you a question to learn. Please answer my question and I will answer yours too.
To say it looks clumsy is easy, but please tell me why. Do other bros have the same opinion ?

Posted by: GA Secretary Sun, 05 Dec 2004 5:58 pm

Why do you ask : "has the fish been stressed ?"

Posted by: Frankie Sun, 05 Dec 2004 6:12 pm

Your ranchu doesn't strike me as clumsy. It may not look as slender and graceful as other ranchus that I've seen here in the forum, especially with the rounded bulging tummy, but it's cute (and I mean it as a complement). The white head fascinates me. Somehow it resembles soft furry fur!

I'm curious how it looks from the side. Judging from the pic, it appears to have a relatively short and drastically curved back like a sideview ranchu? Everything else ( the neat and fine scales, the nice big tails) screams Japanese though, which confuse the hell out of me.

Posted by: Frankie Tue, 07 Dec 2004 8:15 pm

To me, "cute" is not a compliment to a topview ranchu. To my untrained eyes, the ranchu looks out of shape.

tell us what's your keeping method. only then perhaps some experienced keepers will comment.

Posted by: Frankie Wed, 08 Dec 2004 9:35 am

In 20 odds days, it's going to be an Oya. Tough to say it's a good fish. Sold to you as japan bloodline ? Ya, got a little of japan look, sold as Hamamatsu or ishikawa ranchu ? but keeping method seems poor. Owner would like to share how he has been keeping this for the past 20 odd mths.

Overall, average. Looks lumpy from the photo. If possible, re-take a better shot, at least when the fish is not swimming.

Posted by: yamato38gunkei Wed, 08 Dec 2004 9:36 am

I am a little disappointed that so few people commented this Ranchu ; and in fact all Ranchu in the Goldfish Academy.

I think this is a good opportunity to train your eye and it may open the eyes of the owners. More than 500 members and only a few comments. Probably it will never change, but I think that the fact that so many members "hide" is not good for the group. In the end it will discourage the "active" ones.

I was happy to see positive and negative comments. I only wish that those who gave negative comments were brave enough to say why etc. It is easy to critisise, but very difficult to give advice. It can only open the eyes of the breeder or owner. Everybody thinks that his or her fish are the best.

OK, my story. This Ranchu was bred by Mr. Kato from Okayama. I imported this Ranchu as a Tosai about one year ago. It is a male. Next year, I will use this Ranchu to breed. I think it is a very good Ranchu. OK, I wish the body was a little longer, but I do not think that the tummy is too thick.

I still hope to see more comments. Positive or negative !

Regards,


Geert Coppens

Posted by: Allan Wed, 08 Dec 2004 10:03 am

I should mention Geert had initially chosen to post annoymously and revealing his identity only just now. I think the strategy works well in getting unbiased comments.

On the issue of getting little comments on top view ranchus, my feeling is there're very few true blue tvr keepers here. Sure, many members own tvr but are keeping them for their looks only. How it swims is of very little importance, much like some fashion magazine models; look nice on paper but walks creepled.

So, many have learnt how to select a tvr for the right look but given a good ranchu that doesn't fit in that guideline is marked as undersirable.

We have done a private poll on whether appreciating a tvr for the looks only is okay. If i recall correctly, majority voted yes much to everyone surprise.

So geert, don't be dishearten by the lack luster and wrong comments. It won't be easy to make many of us understand the true joy of keeping tvr because the grace & joy of watching the little creature swim can only be appreciated by observing it in front of you, live. Very few has this oppurtunity.

But i think the academy still serves it purpose as a starting point for newbies to understand the basics of tvr. For one thing, i think many learnt how to distinguish a thai from a jap and not so valnerable to LFS's wild claims, among other insights.

regards

me

Posted by: Frankie Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:08 pm

IMHO .... Overall a very nice fish. Nice head growth and thick backbone. But would prefer that the tummy is extended more towards the back to close up the gap between the body and the tail.

Tail wise is reasonable but would prefer it to be bigger and less droupy.

Also agree that it might not be able to swim very gracefully.

Posted by: top_view_ranchu Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:09 pm

I see some stress mark (or maybe I'm wrong)on the tip of tail pivot.
Please enlighten!
Thanks!

regards

top_view_ranchu

Posted by: The Matrix Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:09 pm

Tricky Allan ...

Going thru my memories, I dun see Kurashiki side with fish of such features. Add another pic to my Kato file. A bit more closer to many Aichi breeders' fish, to what I see. Paiseh Paiseh.

For breeding Geert ? a lot of white leh.

Matrix

Posted by: Allan Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:15 pm

I'm innocent.

Although I must admit I have been for the past few days and crossing my fingers hoping that geert will reveal himself just to see some red faces.

Many times before comments in the academy are biased for one reason or another. I think this thread made it painfully obvious to writers that annonymity can back-fire on them too. I would have reserved my criticisms (or just sing praise blindly) if i knew it's geert fish.

So always write truthfully.


Regards

me

Posted by: mountain Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:44 pm

I do not know TV fish. and i never pretend to know one. so i don't comment.

most folks do not comment because they do not know much. Either still learning, or not interested in TV.

Mountain

Posted by: square_guy Wed, 08 Dec 2004 3:04 pm

wah... to my untrained eyes the tummy still seems bulging and a little short in length....

geert, can you tell me why you think the tummy is ok? do you expect to see it slim down or this is already the finished state?

square_guy

Posted by: yamato38gunkei Thu, 09 Dec 2004 5:54 pm

Dear Matrix,

I wish you would use only English when you write a message to me . I am sorry but I do not understand your language and I find it a little frustrating when you address a message to me and I do not understand it.

I think I said in one of my messages :
- If possible at least one of the two parents should be all red.
- The female is selected for head, body and colour.

This Ranchu is a male and I already chose an all red female for him. Mr. Kato's bloodline has the right genes to give good colour. Of course, I wish he had a little more red, but you can't have everything.

Regards,

Geert Coppens

Posted by: yamato38gunkei Thu, 09 Dec 2004 5:54 pm

I had a fantastic time reading the comments. I still wish there were more. Mr. Kato will be happy ....

What can I say ? Maybe it is my eyes .... or my keeping technology....
I suggest that we all study as many photos and videos of high quality Japanese Champions and in 20 years we will all be Masters.


Beware ! More actions to come.....

Regards,


Geert Coppens

Posted by: The Matrix Fri, 10 Dec 2004 8:05 am

Sorry sorry Geert. Shall use better English when writting to you. Pretty used to the Singalish slang when typing in a public forum.

Anyway, I have been going thru the pictures and videos but unable to understand how you have selected this fish as your brood stock. Color is one of the concern I have in mind which I felt a little uncomfortable.

Undeniably, the red female you posted on another thread is absolutely solid piece, even showing to my teacher, a solid thumb up. But this male is not what I have expected from a Mr Kato lineage.

My apology if I have not given a thorough explaination. I hope my opinions did not offend you. My apology to Mr Kato as well.

Simply, my initial assessement of this fish is not from Okayama side. To the extend that I have put in my initial comment of a japan bloodline, or what I meant is looks like a japan fish but ....... and not well kept for over quite a period of time. That's why I have asked for the method of keeping.

I am shocked that this fish is yours. I still don't believe it.

Matrix

Posted by: Frankie Fri, 10 Dec 2004 8:06 am

as i said..
looks clumsy, but how would one really know unless a video is shown?
which is y i asked more questions.

Posted by: yamato38gunkei Fri, 10 Dec 2004 8:06 am

Dear Matrix,

It looks like we have a different opinion about this Ranchu. There is nothing wrong with that, isn't it ?

This even may be interesting for both of us ; in this case especially for myself. I hope to learn from you what is wrong with this Ranchu. You say that colour is not the only thing that is wrong with this Ranchu. Please give me some detailed comments. Tell me all the things you dislike with this Ranchu.

You say it has been kept badly. Please tell me how you keep your Ranchu. How would you have developed this Ranchu ?

Do you have any experience with Seed Ranchu ? I hope to see your Seed Ranchu to see how you choose your Seed Ranchu. How do you keep your Seed Ranchu ? Please show me your setup. What do you look for when chosing Seed Ranchu ?

I am really looking forward to your opinion.

In the end, the babies of this Ranchu will tell us who is right. I am looking forward to the results. I can not wait until next year.

Regards,

Geert Coppens

Posted by: Frankie Fri, 10 Dec 2004 6:34 pm

Hi Geert,

Really looking forward to see how the babies will turn out, it will be an interesting topic to discus aboutm, hope we can all learn from it.


Thanks Geert.

Take care

Posted by: yamato38gunkei Sun, 12 Dec 2004 2:24 am

Dear Matrix,

Thank you very much for the personal email you sent me. I believe you are a gentleman.

I do not understand why you did not want to reply my posting in the forum. OK, you do not want to reveal your full identity, which I will always respect. But I think it is not fair towards the other members of this forum and towards myself to continue this discussion privately. This interesting difference of opinion started here and should be discussed here. I like to defend my opinion. Maybe I am wrong, maybe I am right. I can live with that.

In your email, I did not find the detailed comments I hoped to learn from. You write you admit you are only a Ranchu student. There is nothing wrong with that. I can live with the fact that you, and other members (!), do not like this Ranchu. But, I hope to learn why. This is what "Goldfish Academy" is all about.

In the same email, you write that I kept this Ranchu badly. This is possible, but you say I should have kept it in green water. Maybe, but green water only helps to get a better colour. I think the red of this Ranchu is deep red and the white is very white. Or, am I wrong ?

Maybe this Ranchu is a little fat and the body a little short. But, you can not change this with green water. The short body is determined genetically. And when it is too fat, then this is because of feeding too many pellets ; not because it was not kept in green water. Anyway, the body will look slimmer after three months without feeding in water below 10°C.

As I will use this Ranchu for breeding, I wish it was more red. Here I agree with you. But as I said : "at least one of the two parents should be all red". But you can not have everything. With this post, I send a photo of a Mr. Fujiwara Seed Female Ranchu. It is almost all white !!!!! Mr. Fujiwara has been breeding Ranchu for more than 40 !!!!! years. He is the teacher of many famous Ranchu breeders.

Yesterday, I sent the photo of my Ranchu to a very good Japanese friend. He said : "very good Ranchu ; especially the head. You can breed good babies with this Ranchu."

I am one of the few people who wants to spread all possible information about keeping and breeding Ranchu. In your email, you say you do not want to put all information in a public forum. I do respect this, but knowledge is power. Spreading information makes more people interested in Ranchu. The more information, the more knowledge, the better the Ranchu will become. The better the Ranchu, the more competition. Competition makes us sharp to try to become better and better.

I decided to become less active in RG. This does not mean I say goodbye.

Your Ranchu Friend,

Geert Coppens

Posted by: namaste Sun, 12 Dec 2004 4:26 pm

hello,

To me, the swimming and the balancing of the fish is very important. That why I find that it is difficult to comment from pic. But seems like the expert can do it. Tat's why I didn't make any comment. I hope I can. I am still learning.

As for training ranchu eye, I feel that only looking at the real fish then I can REALLY learn and appreciate. But still not good enough. Got to depend on the TRUE masters/experts too willingness to teach or not, and self experimentation and realisation are also very important. Well, all I can say learning this art is really a long journey. So far only you posted those fishes look good, the comment I would say osin and oyabone can be better. Well, there is no perfect fish! But overall I would say still got to see the real fish for TRUE comment and learning.

Well, I know nothing about breeding, I am still learning how to see a good and potential fish at this point. Sorry that I can't make comment about breeding and bloodline. I think every breeders have their own dream fish. This is an respectful art, the opinion is always subjected. Everybody has their own mentod of keeping and breeding.

I hope you are not disappointed anymore. Please comment on my statement made.

Thanks
Namaste

Posted by: yamato38gunkei Tue, 14 Dec 2004 7:18 pm

Hello Namaste,

What you say is very true ! The most important when evaluating Ranchu is balance (see my Standard of Perfection) ; and the way the Ranchu swims.

But this is Internet ! It is very difficult to show how the Ranchu swims. Photos can give you an idea. An experienced "eye" will be able to have a good idea of how a Ranchu will swim when he sees a photo. But I agree that you can only be 100% sure when you see the fish alive and swimming.

I do think that we all should be happy our Japanese friends show many of their Ranchu on Internet, books, magazines, journals etc. Where would the Ranchu World be without all of these ? I think that for many of us photos, books, Internet etc. are the first contact with Ranchu.

Regards,

Geert Coppens

Posted by: namaste Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:10 am

hello Geert,

Thanks for your reply. I can see your points.

Regards
Namaste