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Posted by: volks Mon, 03 Apr 2006 11:51 pm

Dear All,
searching the forum found that in general many bros change ~80-90% of water per time.
Where did you place the fishes during such change?
What about temperature different?
Could we leave the fishes in the tub and fill in fresh water from the tap?
Thanks

Posted by: desireless Tue, 04 Apr 2006 2:49 pm

Hi Volks,

What most of us practise is to house the fishes in a small container (like a enamel basin or a small guppy tub) within the tank. Have just done water change over the weekend so I don't have the chance to take photos now - I'll just make do with graphical illustration.

This is how I do it:

1) This is the tank before water change:

2) Bring a small container (I am using a 10-litre guppy acrylic tank), fill it up with the tank water and leave it in the tank. Transfer the fishes into this container. Remember to aerate the small container. Once done, you can release the water using your most preferred method. For me, I am using the waterhose siphon method.



3) The old water in the tank will be drained till the last possible drop. The container will sink to the bottom but the fishes are not at all affected by the draining of water outside the container.



4) Refill the tank with fresh water. If you are using waterhose-syphon method, I would suggest using a different hose for water refilling, for hygiene purpose. Once the water is filled, add anti-chlorine and baking soda (buffer). Run your filter. Go watch some TV or play with your kids . Leave the setup as it is for about an hour for the fishes to acclimatize. At this time, the water temperature in the container will slowly match the new water in the tank.



5) The last process is to transfer the fishes back to the tank.
Now, this is subjective. Some people prefer to mix the old water with new water, and let the fishes further acclimatize to the new water. Then, slowly submerge the container and let the fishes swim out by themselves.
For me, I simply transfer the fishes one by one into the new water. And then I remove the container and pour away the old water (Only then I get the feel of "100% water change"... ) It's totally up to you. ;)

Posted by: volks Tue, 04 Apr 2006 3:31 pm

Hi Desireless,
thanks , your explanation is very detail.

Posted by: yamato38gunkei Tue, 04 Apr 2006 3:50 pm

Dear Desireless,

Very detailed explanation . RG, RG, RG... better than all the rest !

Regards,

Geert Coppens

Posted by: 9Ranchus Tue, 04 Apr 2006 6:25 pm

Dear Desireless,

The graphics very good!!!!!!!

regards
Ling

Posted by: marc9 Tue, 04 Apr 2006 8:03 pm

i like the tank pictures with the goldfish inside..

Posted by: Sabine Tue, 04 Apr 2006 9:09 pm

Good way of doing it, thank you for the excellent graphics.
What appeals to me most is that this way no fish can get sucked into the syphon - an accident I've heard of far too often!

Posted by: white horse T1 Tue, 04 Apr 2006 9:14 pm

yes i did that. i don take out the fish in glass tank.

My lazy man method:

Below is for tank with sump setup

Draining
i put a submerged pump into the main tank
Attached a hose to the submerged pump all the way to drainage pt in the tiolet. Run the pump, drainage is fast and furious
Fish still inside. once 80% of water is out, i stop and withdraw the submerged pump.

Filling Water
using the same hose again
i attach it to the tap in the tiolet and run the outlet end to my sump tank instead
in sump tank i premixed all anti chlorine/chlormine solution and fill up to almost full capacity before i activate the sump pump to pump the water back to the main tank.
Tap water will now run thru the sump before going to main until tank is filled up. Of course , fish will run the risk of chlorine exposure.

whole Process is 30min for draining 80% and topping a 4ft tank and i can do a parallel water change with green water tub. Total time: 40 mins bec of sharing of hoses. otherwise faster. no need tocarry heavy pails for main tank now or rely on siphon hose.

FIsh never leave main tank. the last i check they still swimming after 1 yr.

green water tank
for green water tank, i will confirm take out the fish first. method same as what happy buddha advocates.

Posted by: gohks Tue, 04 Apr 2006 9:35 pm

Pre-mixing is very important..don't take for granted..
I got some of my beloved fishes wipe out during water change recently.. but not favourite still survive
I smell heavy chlorine, thought can add anti-chlorine after filling...fish straight away sink to the bottom and stay motionless...damn, don't know what you will get from the municipal water supply...seems the chlorine conc. also not in control..

Posted by: goldrush Tue, 04 Apr 2006 10:10 pm

Just like to add here is

If you add any water, you need to declorinate your in coming water. Chlorine is toxic to your fish, declor is cheap and your goldfish are often far more expensive. A good declor used at the label dose will not hurt your fish.Infact overdosing it at ten times the recommended will not cause significant ill effects at all.It is that safe! Chlorine or cloramines however in even trace amounts WILL cause detrimental or even fatal effect .So be wary!!!! We’ve discussed this in detail in our previous thread so please be reminded again.

Posted by: desireless Wed, 05 Apr 2006 1:24 am

Thanks for the compliments!

I am glad that these illustrations are helpful. This has been brought up before but it was very difficult to explain the procedure in writing. Picture says a thousand words!

Posted by: Hamad Wed, 05 Apr 2006 1:39 am

Wow thank you Desireless, this was very detailed and looks awesome at the same time!

Posted by: dragonhart Wed, 05 Apr 2006 9:24 am

Well done desireless..this is just what i need. ..a million thanks to u and RG.

Posted by: white horse T1 Wed, 05 Apr 2006 5:45 pm

i am shock by the feedback.

surely there is no astonishing fact on water change and where to put fish?

unless everyone is doing something lazy like me and assumed it is the RIGHT way all along?

Posted by: CP Wed, 05 Apr 2006 6:15 pm

If you have noticed I have kept quite all along so you are not alone...........

Posted by: chanB Wed, 05 Apr 2006 8:31 pm

Very helpful illustration.

I'm abit lazy, just scrap the glass and drain tank with goldfish still in it. goldfish fall sick easily after eating the dirts. I'll change to this. I also use 2 x carbon block to filter the tap water before top up.

Posted by: d_golem Wed, 05 Apr 2006 9:42 pm

Bro desireless, great illustration! But u didn't mention about acclimatising the fish to the new water, only matching the temperature. Shouldn't you put the new water little by little into the tub where the fish is? I thought they'll get shocked if put straight into the newly changed water, especially with greenwater setups.

Posted by: desireless Thu, 06 Apr 2006 1:12 am

In step 5), I mentioned about some hobbyists having this habit of mixing old water with new one. Then submerge the container to let the fishes swim out by themselves. That is one way of doing it.

But if you're confident enough... Having buffered new water and changing water religiously, you can simply transfer the fishes 1 by 1 into the new water after the 1 hour plus wait. You would have reduced possibilities of 2 shocks, the pH shock (through buffering) and the temperature shock. The fish would sense a big drop in nitrate level (and the taste/smell of their own shit ), in a cycled tank. But if you have been changing water religiously and do not overstock your tank, this is rather minimal...

Posted by: Dick Benbow Sun, 13 Jan 2008 2:13 am

God gave us two ears and only one mouth for a reason so I have been listening to all your input and holding off from asking beginners questions BUT now i have to

What is your personal reasoning for the "new" water. With koi it is known that aged water is much better. Is this not the case with goldfish. If I set up a holding tank,declored it and allowed it to age while being aireated
(more work I know) but would that make a positive difference or is the difference so little as not to be worth all the effort. Your opinion please.

Posted by: CP Sun, 13 Jan 2008 10:51 am

Previously some hobbyists here age their water to dissipate the chlorine without the use of anti-chlorine; but since our local water here now contains chloramines, which can only be removed by dosing anti-chlorine/chloramines, most do not age their water anymore.

Some discussions here:
http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2503

Posted by: Dick Benbow Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:25 am

thanks CP, I quess I'm fortunate as our water district uses only chlorine. I'm thinking all I need to do is
declorinate and add air and it'll be ready when I am.

Posted by: goldfish8 Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:41 am

What is the ideal temp for goldfish?

Posted by: bekko Mon, 14 Sep 2009 3:14 am

If you are comfortable then they are comfortable.

-steve

Posted by: CP Mon, 14 Sep 2009 9:55 am

Ha ha, thats a good way of putting it.