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> Chloramine Level In Singapore?, Treating tap water containing chlorine / chloramine
The Matrix
post Tue, 26 Jul 2005 2:01 am
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QUOTE(goldrush @ Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:44 pm)
=0.66
*


That's TOTAL NH3 ... not unionized NH3 ions. If after water change and we still get 0.66ppm, fishes balek kumpong liao.

Let's based on the highest pH of 9 and our local tap temperature of 26 degC, probably land us in the 0.100~0.135 ppm. Just above the deadly zone. And for many who after water change and seeing fish lying down, stoned and death, it means you have to re-adjust your water changing method and look into the filter. A few tests won't cost a lot, but worth a lot of knowledge on why and how it happen.

Of course, we should not encourage hobbyists to keep fish at low pH but rather we should elaborate on the proper care of the filtration system and manage the water parameters properly.

Should one keep fish in higher pH or should it be lower, let the fish tell the rest of the story.

Today we exposed a lot of common mistakes and misunderstanding of many hobbyists. More than enough for many to absorb.

So am I still the super kiasu to use so many test kits and do so many tests ?

Anyway, your statement on this rather broad based not fully accurate "Some manufacturers of water conditioners state their product removes chloramine, but fail to tell you that the ammonia is still present in the water. ".

Several companies that have well known products have special chemicals used instead of sodium thiosulphate. These chemicals are known to react with both ammonia and chlorine ions and form several salts. Rather safe to use provided that the basic knowledge of aquarium keeping is attained.
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goldrush
post Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:36 am
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You are SHARP Matrix,that’s exactly what I’m trying to draw forum to.Becos of this discussion I hope bros will further understand wat test kits and NH3 is all about.The 0.66 does represent TOTAL AMMONIA,infact most test kit read off this value. There is a big difference between Total Ammonia (the sum) vice Free Ammonia and Bound Ammonia (the parts of the sum). What most of us want to know is what the Free Ammonia level is in our water. It is the Free Ammonia that is going to do the most damage to the gills of our fish and eventually cause death if not countered.

To know the free unionized ammonia out of the known total ammonia value you have refer to the chart provided within all NH3 test kit.Read off the value against pH and temperature to get a multiplier which you multiply against your total NH3 and you will get a rough estimate of your free NH3.

Secondly you brought up another good point of conducting several times a test to get conclusive result
An ammonia test conducted when declor is present will show false readings. Water with no ammonia whatever may test positive for ammonia. Conversely, water with high ammonia levels can read as ammonia-free.
So choose a declor that is compatible with your test kit!

Run this simple experiment to ensure you are doing it right
Step 1: Fill a bucket with tap water. Test this untreated water. Keep this test sample as your untreated reference. It should show no ammonia.
Step 2: Add declor to the bucket at the recommended dose. Test this water and compare it to Step #1. If there isn't any difference in color or turbidity (ie, no "haze" is present compared to the treated sample), continue below.
Step 3: Add 10 drops of household ammonia to the bucket. Stir well and test. If this sample shows positive and doesn't have any unusual haze, Eureka!



I think we have achievd our aim in our discussion on NH3 here and would like to end without further figures and confusion


Regards,

goldrush



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jhansolo
post Tue, 26 Jul 2005 11:45 am
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QUOTE(goldrush @ Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:36 am)
Add 10 drops of household ammonia
*



I thought this is a controlled item in singapore?
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goldrush
post Tue, 26 Jul 2005 1:15 pm
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QUOTE(jhansolo @ Tue, 26 Jul 2005 11:45 am)
I thought this is a controlled item in singapore?
*



Try windex

http://www.windex.com/windex/

or any household Ammonia based products to see if you can get any reading
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The Matrix
post Tue, 26 Jul 2005 1:18 pm
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QUOTE(jhansolo @ Tue, 26 Jul 2005 11:45 am)
I thought this is a controlled item in singapore?
*



Ammonium Carbonate can be found in Phoon Huat. React with a few drops of hypochloride acid, bleaching solution, u got your home make inorganic chloramine solution. hahahaha.

and please dun take a deep breath when u do it. More deadly then our body gas outlet.
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The Matrix
post Tue, 26 Jul 2005 1:40 pm
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Doc, I not sharp ... just amour piercing. yes.gif

Hope the readers will just remember, Keep fish, first keep water. A very good chinese saying and they are never wrong since the day goldfish are domestically breeded.
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CP
post Tue, 26 Jul 2005 1:45 pm
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As for products that claims to treat chloramine, I think there are two categories:

1)Breaks the NH3 / Cl bond, treats the Cl part but leaves the NH3 free
2)Breaks the bond, and treats both the freed Cl and NH3

Some of the products performing type (2) are listed in the link I provided earlier.
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_chlorine.htm


Most LFS carry type (1) , I think.Usually the bottle will not state whether it treats both the compound, but the brand that I use, Fish Guard from Ocean Free (type 1),did state the following:

"Water treated with FishGuard breaks the chloramine bond.Use XXX brand zeolites or YYY brand beneficial bacteria to remove ammonia".
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The Matrix
post Tue, 26 Jul 2005 1:55 pm
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QUOTE(goldrush @ Tue, 26 Jul 2005 1:15 pm)
Try windex

http://www.windex.com/windex/

or any household Ammonia based products to see if you can get any reading
*



oui ... wrong info leh ... Windex which label as Ammonia-K but it's only smell like ammonia but not ammonia.

The main ingredient is Isopropanol - C3H8O or Alcohol only !!! Even having propylene or ethylene u dun get ammonia.
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CP
post Tue, 26 Jul 2005 2:09 pm
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Give me ethanol CH3CH2OH anytime.............

beer1.gif beer1.gif drunk.gif
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CP
post Tue, 26 Jul 2005 2:29 pm
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Many fish hobbyists or LFS owners commonly refer to the addition of chloramines as PUB's Newater.They know that the garment had added something into the water supply, the timing is somewhere around the campaigning of 'Newater' so these two different items are commonly misunderstood and intertwined.Very often when things go wrong during water changes you hear them cursing " KNN, see lang Newater, nin peh eh hoo ko chai see liao".

You can term the addition of chloramines as 'new water', but not Newater.

Newater is drinking water produced from treated waste water (or 'sai chooi' if u prefer to call it) thru reverse osmosis.Not from our tap yet.

Another type of water is by de-salination, from sea water.
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goldrush
post Tue, 26 Jul 2005 3:26 pm
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QUOTE(The Matrix @ Tue, 26 Jul 2005 1:55 pm)
oui ... wrong info leh ... Windex which label as Ammonia-K but it's only smell like ammonia but not ammonia.

The main ingredient is Isopropanol - C3H8O or Alcohol only !!! Even having propylene or ethylene u dun get ammonia.
*





Paiseh,Paiseh,Sorry did I give wrong info.I thought most window cleaners are ammonia- based.Thousand apologies.This prove how SUCKS I am when household products are concerned………….

Better ask my dog to pipi for instant ammonia! Hey Bruno where are yoooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuu………


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The Matrix
post Tue, 26 Jul 2005 3:46 pm
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QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Tue, 26 Jul 2005 2:09 pm)
Give me ethanol CH3CH2OH anytime.............

beer1.gif  beer1.gif drunk.gif
*



ONZ lah. And best to add some peanuts and kalamari ... eat.gif
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CP
post Tue, 26 Jul 2005 5:09 pm
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QUOTE(The Matrix @ Tue, 26 Jul 2005 3:46 pm)
ONZ lah. And best to add some peanuts and kalamari ...  eat.gif
*


And nicotine.............. smoke.gif
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jhansolo
post Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:08 am
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QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Tue, 26 Jul 2005 5:09 pm)
And nicotine.............. smoke.gif
*



Talks like that in front doctor is dangerous
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CP
post Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:11 am
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The doc doesn't drink,he doesn't smoke, he doesn't gamble but there is one last vice for him. humpy.gif
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