Koi Cross Goldfish, Is it Possible? |
Koi Cross Goldfish, Is it Possible? |
desireless |
Sun, 18 Feb 2007 8:55 pm
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#1
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养鱼养得好又如何 Member No.: 9 Group: Super Moderator Posts: 5,164 Topics Started: 558 Joined: 12-Dec-03 Last seen online: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 3:49 pm User's local time: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 4:59 pm Green Water: Yes Country: Singapore |
Split from
"World's Largest Goldfish" A big possibility of a mix between a koi & a pearlscale. Look closely.......the structure of the body from front view has a stomach structure of a pearlscale. Sideview shows pretty similar signs together with a strong koi-like tail. Front View of Hercules Front View of a normal tikus Side View of Hercules - Look at the side pearlscale-like scales & strong koi tail How does one cross koi with goldfish? I have seen single-caudal Pearsclaes before but it is definitely not bred out of crossing Koi with pearlscales. However, if it is a single-caudal pearlscales then it will be very rare for something of that size which the seller is claiming it to be! 50cm is definitely a record breaker! I guess there will be no conclusion unless the seller catches the fish and shows a better picture. Looks like a big lake and I am wondering how the seller is going to catch it for the winner. |
chochiss |
Mon, 19 Feb 2007 3:48 am
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#2
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Silver Member No.: 1,819 Group: Member Posts: 214 Topics Started: 15 Joined: 27-Feb-06 Last seen online: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 1:06 am User's local time: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 6:59 pm Green Water: Not Telling Country: Malaysia |
A pedigree breed can determine their genes & character but a mongrel??
Mongrel is a mongrel no matter what you cross it with......when it's a hybrid....nobody can tell on the how it was done & what it will become. The real body will uncover all our doubts. |
desireless |
Mon, 19 Feb 2007 4:15 am
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#3
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养鱼养得好又如何 Member No.: 9 Group: Super Moderator Posts: 5,164 Topics Started: 558 Joined: 12-Dec-03 Last seen online: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 3:49 pm User's local time: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 4:59 pm Green Water: Yes Country: Singapore |
A pedigree breed can determine their genes & character but a mongrel?? Mongrel is a mongrel no matter what you cross it with......when it's a hybrid....nobody can tell on the how it was done & what it will become. The real body will uncover all our doubts. Eh halo... What happen to science ah? When you cross Elephant with rat, you don't get miniature elephants nor rat as big as elephant, do you? Yes, you can cross celestial eye with pearl scales. Yes, you can cross ranchu with dragoneye. It is possible to get hybrids of 2 parents from different classifications because the parent pairs in the above 2 examples are from the goldfish family! Koi is not goldfish! It is not closely related to goldfish. Some misinformed guy would tell you that "Koi is the ancestor to goldfish" but that's not true at all. You can never breed koi with pearlscales. Have you seriously look at koi eggs before? Not everything that swims in the same water can be bred just like that. Else we'll be selling freaks everywhere. A single-caudal pearlscales is possible in a spawn between 2 pearlscales parents. They are usually culled. It is also possible to get such a hybrid when one crosses a shubunkin with pearlscales. 1) Shubunkin x Pearlscales => possible because Shubunkin = Goldfish Pearlscales = Goldfish 2) Koi x pearlscales => impossible because Koi ≠ Goldfish [END OF EQUATION] |
gohks |
Mon, 19 Feb 2007 10:21 am
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#4
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Silver Member No.: 1,639 Group: Member Posts: 383 Topics Started: 8 Joined: 12-Nov-05 Last seen online: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 2:37 pm User's local time: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 4:59 pm Green Water: No Country: Singapore |
Interesting discussion, so is wild carp = koi? If it's the same then I thought goldfish originated from wild carp and they can be crossed.
Anyway there is always a mix-up between a carp and goldfish in the west. This guy looks like a bloated carp to me and people called it goldfish. |
goldrush |
Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:29 am
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#5
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RG Doc.com Member No.: 319 Group: Forum Doctor Posts: 3,327 Topics Started: 377 Joined: 25-Jun-04 Last seen online: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 10:45 pm User's local time: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 4:59 pm Green Water: No Country: Singapore |
Wah Chinese New Year got alot of fireworks ah!!!!!
Let me just say that goldfish and koi are two different Genuses but do belong to the same Cyprinidae family.As such because of their close cousin relationship they can interbreed to form hybrids very much like the mule which is a product of a paternal horse and a maternal donkey.Another example would be another hybrid tigon and liger which is a mix of lion and tiger(sterile in the making ) Sorry got some guest coming so let me just refer all to an article on carp which has a brief mention on cross breeding between the two species which to the common eye.......very difficult differentiation btween the two http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/dpi/nreninf.nsf/...FILE/FN0014.pdf |
chochiss |
Mon, 19 Feb 2007 1:35 pm
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#6
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Silver Member No.: 1,819 Group: Member Posts: 214 Topics Started: 15 Joined: 27-Feb-06 Last seen online: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 1:06 am User's local time: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 6:59 pm Green Water: Not Telling Country: Malaysia |
Eh halo... What happen to science ah? When you cross Elephant with rat, you don't get miniature elephants nor rat as big as elephant, do you? Yes, you can cross celestial eye with pearl scales. Yes, you can cross ranchu with dragoneye. It is possible to get hybrids of 2 parents from different classifications because the parent pairs in the above 2 examples are from the goldfish family! Koi is not goldfish! It is not related to goldfish in any way. Some misinformed guy would tell you that "Koi is the ancestor to goldfish" but that's not true at all. You can never cross koi with pearlscales. Have you seriously look at koi eggs before? Not everything that swims in the same water can be crossed just like that. Else we'll be selling freaks everywhere. A single-caudal pearlscales is possible in a spawn between 2 pearlscales parents. They are usually culled. It is also possible to get such a hybrid when one crosses a shubunkin with pearlscales. 1) Shubunkin x Pearlscales => possible because Shubunkin = Goldfish Pearlscales = Goldfish 2) Koi x pearlscales => impossible because Koi ≠ Goldfish [END OF EQUATION] Sounds more like a personal attack more than a scientific explaination......... Pls re-think your phrase: Koi ≠ Goldfish [END OF EQUATION] They are from the same family group with similar origins. Get your facts straight before trying to quote equations. Thanks This post has been edited by chochiss: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 1:39 pm |
desireless |
Mon, 19 Feb 2007 1:56 pm
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#7
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养鱼养得好又如何 Member No.: 9 Group: Super Moderator Posts: 5,164 Topics Started: 558 Joined: 12-Dec-03 Last seen online: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 3:49 pm User's local time: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 4:59 pm Green Water: Yes Country: Singapore |
QUOTE Koi is not goldfish! It is not closely related to goldfish. Some misinformed guy would tell you that "Koi is the ancestor to goldfish" but that's not true at all. You can never breed koi with pearlscales. Have you seriously look at koi eggs before? Not everything that swims in the same water can be bred just like that. Else we'll be selling freaks everywhere. When I said the bolded sentence, I meant to say goldfish is not directly related to koi. I once read some guy implying koi is the ancestor to goldfish which I think is awfully misleading. Koi and goldfish may have evolved from wild carp but they are not directly-related. I have just read doctor's article and indeed someone has done it. My apologies if I have misled members by saying that it is impossible that koi and goldfish can cross. As a matter of fact, it has happened, although there wasn't explanation how that was possible. |
desireless |
Mon, 19 Feb 2007 2:10 pm
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#8
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养鱼养得好又如何 Member No.: 9 Group: Super Moderator Posts: 5,164 Topics Started: 558 Joined: 12-Dec-03 Last seen online: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 3:49 pm User's local time: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 4:59 pm Green Water: Yes Country: Singapore |
Sounds more like a personal attack more than a scientific explaination......... Pls re-think your phrase: Koi ≠ Goldfish [END OF EQUATION] They are from the same family group with similar origins. Get your facts straight before trying to quote equations. Thanks I was just tackling the issue of whether Koi can breed with Goldfish. That was what you have proposed could have happened to a "possible pearlscale" that big. And I think it is not possible to maintain a line out of cross-breeding between koi and goldfish. But why do you think that it was a personal attack? This is the second time I have read disgruntled posts from you. Come come... We must talk about this elsewhere: http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4653 |
d_golem |
Mon, 19 Feb 2007 2:24 pm
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#9
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Silver Member No.: 1,470 Group: Member Posts: 203 Topics Started: 17 Joined: 28-Sep-05 Last seen online: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 9:34 pm User's local time: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 5:59 pm Green Water: Not Telling Country: Australia |
http://koivet.com/html/articles/articles_d...h%20Information
Goldfish and koi can and do breed with each other, however that 50cm goldfish is positively not a hybird and most likely a dropsied common IMHO |
desireless |
Mon, 19 Feb 2007 3:11 pm
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#10
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养鱼养得好又如何 Member No.: 9 Group: Super Moderator Posts: 5,164 Topics Started: 558 Joined: 12-Dec-03 Last seen online: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 3:49 pm User's local time: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 4:59 pm Green Water: Yes Country: Singapore |
Thanks for the link. Now with proofs of these pictures, koi cross comet can happen indeed.
But is it restricted to single caudal goldfish as it is closest to it ancestral wild carp form? |
d_golem |
Mon, 19 Feb 2007 3:27 pm
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#11
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Silver Member No.: 1,470 Group: Member Posts: 203 Topics Started: 17 Joined: 28-Sep-05 Last seen online: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 9:34 pm User's local time: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 5:59 pm Green Water: Not Telling Country: Australia |
But is it restricted to single caudal goldfish as it is closest to it ancestral wild carp form? If all goldfish is one species, then a cross between fancy goldfish and koi is feasible. Afterall, the only difference between single-caudal goldfish and double-caudal goldfish is cosmetic only. |
CyberET |
Tue, 20 Feb 2007 9:54 pm
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#12
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White Gold Member No.: 8 Group: Associate Posts: 2,044 Topics Started: 32 Joined: 24-Nov-03 Last seen online: Sat, 05 Mar 2022 11:35 am User's local time: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 4:59 pm Green Water: Yes Country: Singapore |
i'm lazy to read thru 7 pages of pdf, doc, can explain more?
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