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> Ga 004 - Ranchu
olddog
post Tue, 18 May 2004 6:25 pm
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I am sure its a Japanese bloodline. The tail bone is very strong I suspect Kashino blood in it.

Regards Forrest.
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Frankie
post Wed, 19 May 2004 8:43 am
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I think Geert is asking this "What do you all think of this Nisai Ranchu ? Thai ? Japanese ?" He is asking for us to guess where does this fish comes from. He is not asking for the bloodline but where is this ranchu being breed.

The answer I believe should be Thai, Japan, Indonesia or Singapore and not Kashino, Kato, Ishikawa or Naitoh.
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Frankie
post Wed, 19 May 2004 11:23 am
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QUOTE(Frankie @ Wed 19 May 2004 08:42 AM)
I think Geert is asking this "What do you all think of this Nisai Ranchu ? Thai ? Japanese ?" He is asking for us to guess where does this fish comes from. He is not asking for the bloodline but where is this ranchu being breed.

The answer I believe should be Thai, Japan, Indonesia or Singapore and not Kashino, Kato, Ishikawa or Naitoh.

doh... if tat's the case, we can only post single word replies. "Thai" or "Jap". where's the fun and discussion?
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yamato38gunkei
post Thu, 20 May 2004 6:43 am
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QUOTE(Frankie @ Wed 19 May 2004 04:22 AM)
doh... if tat's the case, we can only post single word replies. "Thai" or "Jap". where's the fun and discussion?

No problem. All comments are welcome !
I hope to send you my answer soon. I am a little busy. Sorry.
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Frankie
post Thu, 20 May 2004 6:43 am
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would definately say its "BELGIUM"
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yamato38gunkei
post Sun, 23 May 2004 5:52 pm
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OK, finally my answer !
It is a Ranchu I bred in 2003 from Kashino Ranchu parents. It is a male.

The photo was taken a while ago. It did change a lot since the photo. I hope to show you this Ranchu again around October-November. By then it should be a full Nisai.

This Ranchu became East Ozeki twice as a Tosai. I think (hope) that it will have its full potential by the age of 4. I think it is a very good Ranchu. But then again, this is my opinion ...

More comments are very welcome !

Regards,


Geert Coppens
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DIYGOLD
post Mon, 24 May 2004 4:55 pm
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dear Geert, thanks for your answer. I think everyone here more or less able to tell the difference btw a Thai and Jap ranchu. However, I jz wonder what's yours opinion and points to look out for about both difference? Hope you can share with us.

Thanks again,
Namaste
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yamato38gunkei
post Tue, 25 May 2004 7:24 pm
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QUOTE(namaste @ Mon 24 May 2004 09:54 AM)
dear Geert, thanks for your answer. I think everyone here more or less able to tell the difference btw a Thai and Jap ranchu. However, I jz wonder what's yours opinion and points to look out for about both difference?

I think a Thai Ranchu and a Japanese Ranchu should look the same. People in Thailand, Japan and all other countries should breed towards the same Standard of Perfection.

The best Japanese Ranchu are the best in the world !!!!! And there are MANY high quality Ranchu in Japan. But there are also many inferior Ranchu in Japan. Most of the time, we only see the best. We are only interested to see the best.

One of the big advantages of the Japanese scene is that there are many HOBBYIST breeders involved who are all very keen to breed high quality Ranchu and to establish high quality bloodlines.

To be able to breed high quality Ranchu it is necessary to understand the value of Ranchu and Ranchu bloodlines. And I think the Japanese know this better than anyone else.

Regards,

Geert Coppens
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Frankie
post Tue, 25 May 2004 8:26 pm
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QUOTE(yamato38gunkei @ Tue 25 May 2004 07:23 PM)
I think a Thai Ranchu and a Japanese Ranchu should look the same.  People in Thailand, Japan and all other countries should breed towards the same Standard of Perfection.

The best Japanese Ranchu are the best in the world !!!!!  And there are MANY high quality Ranchu in Japan.  But there are also many inferior Ranchu in Japan.  Most of the time, we only see the best.  We are only interested to see the best. 


Does that mean that a Thai breed (Japanese) ranchu can be mistaken for a Japan breed ranchu and vice versa?

If so why so much discussion etc. on Thai or Japanese ranchu?

Ity also seems that in Singapore, we are not getting the best both from Thailand and Japan, How about Belgium? Any agent in Singapore?
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Frankie
post Thu, 27 May 2004 8:25 am
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QUOTE(Frankie @ Tue 25 May 2004 08:25 PM)
Does that mean that a Thai breed (Japanese) ranchu can be mistaken for a Japan breed ranchu and vice versa?

If so why so much discussion etc. on Thai or Japanese ranchu?

Ity also seems that in Singapore, we are not getting the best both from Thailand and Japan, How about Belgium? Any agent in Singapore?

The art of keeping Ranchu is not to approach it as a static object but a holistic experience of the hobby.

When "old birds" here and elsewhere talk about Ranchus, they are NOT talking about Ranchus you can buy from LFS. They are talking about Ranchu bred by dedicated HOBBYIST breeders where the Ranchu is an object worshipped and classified as a National Treasure of Japan! These are dedicated people who strive to maintain high quality bloodlines and establish new standards. Small clubs in Japan (and elsewhere adhering strictly to the Japanese guidelines) are setup individually to maintain, perfect, establish a bloodline. The clubs with their master breeder/mentor will guide the members/students with their own way to keep a Ranchu, "secretive" ways perhaps, but that's just part of the fun where "arts" cannot be explained or quantified by science.

When a master breeder, a person with years of experience earned through hard work, perhaps tormented by traditional teaching methods pass down by generations of mentors before him, could get less than a handful of competition grade Ranchu ONCE a year, do you think a COMMERCIALLY bred in Japan (or outside Japan) has a chance to be taken seriously?

On the other hand, you can jolly well "play" with commercial grade Ranchus, and be delighted your purchase fits your pre-conception of how a Ranchu should LOOK like. A true art connoisseur will make an effort to appreciate an authentic piece of art, while a casual fan will be satisfied with print copies. In this sense, you are better off buying lower cost copies from Thailand then prints made in Japan. Both are equally “bad” but at least the Thai version will set you back less.

To blindly worship “Japanese” ranchus is a foolish thing to do, but to appreciate it fully is a long and daunting road to crawl on first.
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yamato38gunkei
post Thu, 27 May 2004 8:25 am
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QUOTE(Frankie @ Tue 25 May 2004 01:25 PM)
Does that mean that a Thai breed (Japanese) ranchu can be mistaken for a Japan breed ranchu and vice versa?

Of course !
But there are still more high quality Ranchu in Japan than anywhere else in the world.
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yamato38gunkei
post Thu, 27 May 2004 8:25 am
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QUOTE(Frankie @ Tue 25 May 2004 01:25 PM)
If so why so much discussion etc. on Thai or Japanese ranchu?

I do not know ! But again, the very best are still in Japan. But a Ranchu should look the same no matter where it is bred.
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yamato38gunkei
post Thu, 27 May 2004 8:25 am
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QUOTE(Frankie @ Tue 25 May 2004 01:25 PM)


Ity also seems that in Singapore, we are not getting the best both from Thailand and Japan, How about Belgium? Any agent in Singapore?

It is impossible to buy the best Ranchu, because the breeders keep the best for themselves, for their students and for the members belonging to their group e.g. Kashino Ranchu Group.
We also should know that from every high quality spawning only a very small number are good enough to be developed as high quality Show Ranchu.
I think that the best way to obtain the very best Ranchu is to try to buy Seed Ranchu from famous breeders or famous bloodlines and to try to breed the High Quality Ranchu yourself.
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yamato38gunkei
post Thu, 27 May 2004 8:25 am
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QUOTE(Frankie @ Tue 25 May 2004 01:25 PM)
Any agent in Singapore?

It may be a good idea to contact Alvin Lim !
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Frankie
post Thu, 27 May 2004 12:56 pm
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QUOTE(yamato38gunkei @ Thu 27 May 2004 08:24 AM)
It is impossible to buy the best Ranchu, because the breeders keep the best for themselves, for their students and for the members belonging to their group e.g. Kashino Ranchu Group.
We also should know that from every high quality spawning only a very small number are good enough to be developed as high quality Show Ranchu.
I think that the best way to obtain the very best Ranchu is to try to buy Seed Ranchu from famous breeders or famous bloodlines and to try to breed the High Quality Ranchu yourself.

I'm so confused. If breeders such as Kashino keep the best for themselves, then is there any value to those ranchus that they put up for sale to the general public?

I assume such breeders have special skills in culling. And with this skill, the young fish that they put up for sale to the general public are the lousier ones? Afterall, even an amatuer breeder knows how to cull fries with obvious defects, keeping less obviously defective one longer and cull them again when the defects are more obvious. So the worse kind to buy are really the black babies, isn't it? Afterall, I can't think of any reason why Kashino would put up babies with potential for sale to the general public! Heck, if you don't belong to his group, even the tosai/nisai he sells you are probably not that great. So I imagine a few diehards here are realizing they have been taken for a ride with those "Japanese" ranchus they paid good money for. You've been buying craps! rofl2.gif
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