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mountain
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The Matrix
concentrate on the wen ... u not keeping in green water right ? color not strong.
YLD
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Sun 27 Jun 2004 04:59 PM)
concentrate on the wen ... u not keeping in green water right ? color not strong.

Mind i ask, how do u concentrate on the wen?
The Matrix
QUOTE(YLD @ Sun 27 Jun 2004 09:10 PM)
Mind i ask, how do u concentrate on the wen?

monitor the parameters closely, keep as low as possible. use good quality food and frequent water change. pay more attention to the fish behaviour and growth.
Allan
The tails look really good from the side and top! The cheeks look more pronounced from the side then from the top, which I find strange. I guess it has to do with the skull? The wen is quite small even for a wee yap bloodline, isn't it? But all in all a good achivement! I'd wish I've kept mine for as long. Shame on me!
mountain
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Sun 27 Jun 2004 10:59 PM)
keep as low as possible.

????? the rest of the factors i understand.. but eeehhhh ... low??
hmm i had always tot lower water levels have to do with development of a fish's swimming postures and tail development .. never knew it had to do with wen.

anyway.. hehe .. thanks for the feedback everyone. will explore further. 1 matter i wish to highlight is this dud seems to have a strange bone structure (dunno wat you guys call it .. the back??) then most other sideviews i see in the forum.. its so .. bloody broad!! this is a heavy dud i swear, when it splashes, it does it big time , not like any others that just do a few tail flips to get your hands wet.

color wise ... err... actually there are some improvements lah .. last time is a pale yellow.. not at least the yellow is more stronger. will do more abt the color.

cheers
CyberET
meaning, keep ammonia, nitrite, nitrate as low as possible wink.gif
YLD
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Sun 27 Jun 2004 10:59 PM)
monitor the parameters closely, keep as low as possible. use good quality food and frequent water change. pay more attention to the fish behaviour and growth.

I understand that keeping the parameters low and frequent water change to provide quality water for the goldfish. But isnt this providing an environment for good overall growth rate? I thought green water would provide a better environment for wen development (as illustrated by some of the posts). Anyway i just started green water so have not see result yet.
mountain
QUOTE(CyberET @ Mon 28 Jun 2004 09:22 AM)
meaning, keep ammonia, nitrite, nitrate as low as possible wink.gif

Ah-chey .. for a moment i tot the reference was low-water level .. rolleyes.gif

QUOTE(YLD @ Mon 28 Jun 2004 10:17 AM)
Anyway i just started green water so have not see result yet


its not Miracle water, results don't come immediately, and it also depends on the volumn of greenwater. e.g. keeping the fish in a cup of greenwater doesn't helps wink.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(mountain @ Mon 28 Jun 2004 11:11 AM)
Ah-chey .. for a moment i tot the reference was low-water level ..  rolleyes.gif

Me too... and was about to counter the suggestion to keep in a "low" tank -- these are side-view ranchus afterall and the chinese farmers keep them in relatively deep ponds.
RBT
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Mon 28 Jun 2004 02:08 PM)
Me too... and was about to counter the suggestion to keep in a "low" tank -- these are side-view ranchus afterall and the chinese farmers keep them in relatively deep ponds.

Me three......thought referring to water level!!!!????
The Matrix
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Mon 28 Jun 2004 02:08 PM)
Me too... and was about to counter the suggestion to keep in a "low" tank -- these are side-view ranchus afterall and the chinese farmers keep them in relatively deep ponds.

blush-big.gif my sentence not too clear.

it should mean keep (the parameters) as low as possible.

Chinese farmers keep in relatively deep ponds ????? hmmmm .... deep ponds ... hmmmm .... whistle.gif
YLD
QUOTE(mountain @ Mon 28 Jun 2004 11:11 AM)
its not Miracle water, results don't come immediately, and it also depends on the volumn of greenwater. e.g. keeping the fish in a cup of greenwater doesn't helps  wink.gif

Yup, i understand. Anyway im keeping 2 ranchu in green water in a 2 ft tank.
CyberET
hmMm.. 2ft tank ard 50-60litres.. what size are your ranchus?
YLD
QUOTE(CyberET @ Mon 28 Jun 2004 08:53 PM)
hmMm.. 2ft tank ard 50-60litres.. what size are your ranchus?

One 3 inch the other 4. Is it overcrowded?

Some questions on green water.

My water has turned green, not very intense (still can see my fishy clearly). My aquarium pharmaceutical ammonia test kit show high level, between 4 to 8 ppm. Is this normal? Also my green water is in the initial stage, i should contine to keep the PL light on right?

If the answer to the above questions is available somewhere pls refer.

Thanx in advance.
CyberET
what your PL light wattage, and what time did u test for ammonia?
whats the timing your light is on?
The Matrix
QUOTE(YLD @ Tue 29 Jun 2004 12:50 PM)
One 3 inch the other 4. Is it overcrowded?

Some questions on green water.

My water has turned green, not very intense (still can see my fishy clearly). My aquarium pharmaceutical ammonia test kit show high  level, between 4 to 8 ppm. Is this normal? Also my green water is in the initial stage, i should contine to keep the PL light on right?

If the answer to the above questions is available somewhere pls refer.

Thanx in advance.

Give u a hint ... I keep 2 2" demekin in a 3ft guppy tub filled full to the top, about 90L per fish. U think your 2ft tank 50L can keep how many ? My standard ratio of keeping goldfish is a minimum of 50L per fish of not more than 3". Anything bigger will have 80L min up to 250L each.

when did u test your ammonia ? before light on or a few hours after light on ? Also I am not too sure this test kit is good enough to test. HB, what brand u recommend har ?

Since it is in the initial stage of green water, probably u turn on the light longer up to 12 hours for the time being. When established, then switch to 8 hours. Your PL lamp above 50watt ? Anyway, is it a normal 2x1x1 tank ? or something bigger ?
square_guy
errhemm..... allow me to share my experience.

I used to have a 80~90L toyoga tub. I have a 2x55W osram switched on frm 8am to 6pm. Feeding was something like 3 x 2 clicks of the autofeeder. There are 2 3~4" ranchus in it. Water change is once a week. To test for ammonia, I have the Seachem ammonia alert.

The ammonia level would rise to "alert" level in the 1st 3 days. towards the end of the week, the level would drop to safe. The green would be very intense. My fish would get O2 burn.

So 110W of PL light, with around 40L per fish doesn't seem to be good enough leh.
YLD
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Tue 29 Jun 2004 01:07 PM)
Give u a hint ... I keep 2 2" demekin in a 3ft guppy tub filled full to the top, about 90L per fish. U think your 2ft tank 50L can keep how many ? My standard ratio of keeping goldfish is a minimum of 50L per fish of not more than 3". Anything bigger will have 80L min up to 250L each.

when did u test your ammonia ? before light on or a few hours after light on ? Also I am not too sure this test kit is good enough to test. HB, what brand u recommend har ?

Since it is in the initial stage of green water, probably u turn on the light longer up to 12 hours for the time being. When established, then switch to 8 hours. Your PL lamp above 50watt ? Anyway, is it a normal 2x1x1 tank ? or something bigger ?

Really envy u have such big space just for green water. May i ask what is the size of the tank u used for viewing?

From yr infomation, thats mean w/ my 50L tank the most i could hse only one 3 inches ranchu.

I did the ammonia test a few hrs after turning the light on.

I try to keep the light on for around 12 hrs a day.

PL: Enqing brand, double white tube, should be 55W.

I think HB mentioned before JBL test kit could measure green water ammonia level. (Correct me if im wrong)

One more thing if i continue to hse my 2 ranchu in the 50L tank and wait upon the green water get more intense and conduct more regular water change of say 50%(HB recommend 90% water chage per week in one of the stickly post), would that be better?
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Tue 29 Jun 2004 01:07 PM)
when did u test your ammonia ? before light on or a few hours after light on ? Also I am not too sure this test kit is good enough to test. HB, what brand u recommend har ?

For green water, there's only one kit I know of that works. Why? Most of the test kits are single colour based, ie, you check the result against a colour chart. But since green water is green in tint (instead of clear) to begin with, your result will not tele with the chart at all. ohmy.gif

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http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.ph...findpost&p=3949

It works for other coloured water too... such as black water often used by Arowana keepers.
The Matrix
QUOTE(YLD @ Tue 29 Jun 2004 03:46 PM)
Really envy u have such big space just for green water. May i ask what is the size of the tank u used for viewing?

From yr infomation, thats mean w/ my 50L tank the most i could hse only one 3 inches ranchu.

I did the ammonia test a few hrs after turning the light on.

I try to keep the light on for around 12 hrs a day.

PL: Enqing brand, double white tube, should be 55W.

I think HB mentioned before JBL test kit could measure green water ammonia level. (Correct me if im wrong)

One more thing if i continue to hse my 2 ranchu in the 50L tank and wait upon the green water get more intense and conduct more regular water change of say 50%(HB recommend 90% water chage per week in one of the stickly post), would that be better?

I dun use PL, paisey, can't help much.

My viewing tank is a bare 4ft tank with a sponge filter. dun even hv a light on it. shiok.gif

If u wanted to, you may change as much as we do. I change 80-90% weekly too. Sometime 100% depends on situation.

It's not about how you could duplicate those written efforts, look at your fish, setup, every detail and adjust accordingly. Take your time.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(YLD @ Tue 29 Jun 2004 03:46 PM)
One more thing if i continue to hse my 2 ranchu in the 50L tank and wait upon the green water get more intense and conduct more regular water change of say 50%(HB recommend 90% water chage per week in one of the stickly post), would that be better?

Seeding 50% seems like a lot to me.

I'm sorry I haven't been following your setup but you mentioned your green don't get intense enough. The problem could be two fold. First, your lighting could be too weak. You said you have a 2 feet tank with 50 litres. So I'm guessing the distance from the lamp to the tank's floor is at least 1 ft? What you can do to intensify the output is placing the lamp at the base of the front glass wall. This way, the light is merely millimeters away from your water. I don't know if your goldfish will go blind becoz the "sun" is now beaming light directly into the eyes though. biggrin.gif But my experience with this method in a fries tank was okay.

Secondly, it could be due to low ammonia. Did you feed your fish? green water needs ammonia to get started and get intense!

So overcome the above first. You should find in a proper setup, the water will turn relatively green by 2nd day and intensely green within a week.
CyberET
low ammonia? readings looks high to me unsure.gif

you could try 60-70% change every 4-5 days, then adjust accordingly to find what is suitable for your setup

as matrix said.. test and adjust accordingly to find out whats suitable for your setup

no need to achieve intense green until u can't see the fish at all to change water biggrin.gif

recommended would be 50-60l per fishy

if you're serious with green water usage, you could consider getting a 3ft guppy tub with a 150W 6500K MH, can house 3-4 fishy biggrin.gif

meanwhile u could consider a 50% change..
YLD
QUOTE(CyberET @ Tue 29 Jun 2004 05:54 PM)
low ammonia? readings looks high to me unsure.gif

you could try 60-70% change every 4-5 days, then adjust accordingly to find what is suitable for your setup

as matrix said.. test and adjust accordingly to find out whats suitable for your setup

no need to achieve intense green until u can't see the fish at all to change water biggrin.gif

recommended would be 50-60l per fishy

if you're serious with green water usage, you could consider getting a 3ft guppy tub with a 150W 6500K MH, can house 3-4 fishy biggrin.gif

meanwhile u could consider a 50% change..

Thank all bro for the comments and suggestions.

My 2 goldfish is still doing ok (at least no physical illness) in the 2 feet green water tank.

Guess i still need to make some adjustments to my setup before seeing any positive results.

Bro HB, why 50 percent of seeding is too much?

One more thing, why the recommendation of 50-60litres of green water/ Goldfish? I thought the nitrite and nitrate would be presumely zero, so why do i still need such amount of green water per goldfish?

Pardon me for my ignorant if i miss any important points.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(YLD @ Sun 11 Jul 2004 09:56 AM)
Bro HB, why 50 percent of seeding is too much?

One more thing, why the recommendation of 50-60litres of green water/ Goldfish? I thought the nitrite and nitrate would be presumely zero, so why do i still need such amount of green water per goldfish?

Most outdoor green water needs no more than 5% of old green water to seed. Seeding more means the green water will get intensely green too quickly requiring more than one water change a week.

There's no nirite and nitrate in green water.

The recommendation is becoz green water isn't as efficient per se compared to bio-filtration in converting ammonia. tongue.gif
YLD
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Sun 11 Jul 2004 01:48 pm)
Most outdoor green water needs no more than 5% of old green water to seed.  Seeding more means the green water will get intensely green too quickly requiring more than one water change a week.

There's no nirite and nitrate in green water.

The recommendation is becoz green water isn't as efficient per se compared to bio-filtration in converting ammonia.  tongue.gif
*




Thanx for the reply.
CyberET
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Sun 11 Jul 2004 01:48 pm)
Most outdoor green water needs no more than 5% of old green water to seed.  Seeding more means the green water will get intensely green too quickly requiring more than one water change a week.

There's no nirite and nitrate in green water.

The recommendation is becoz green water isn't as efficient per se compared to bio-filtration in converting ammonia.  tongue.gif
*


so what happens in an overcrowded tub where ammonia is skyrocketing with 5% seed? adapt accordingly to situations, there issn't a hard and fast rule
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(CyberET @ Sun 18 Jul 2004 12:33 am)
so what happens in an overcrowded tub where ammonia is skyrocketing with 5% seed? adapt accordingly to situations, there issn't a hard and fast rule
*


I hope it is understood that forum's postings are not personal advises tailored to individual setup. Too many factors are involved; hard and fast rules hence are okay but it's up to yourself to explore deeper.

Coming back to answer your question... it would be best to tackle the problem of overcrowding to begin with. mad3.gif Like I said earlier, green water isn't as efficient as bio-filtration; over-crowding is suicidal.
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