Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Need Help - What Is Green Water
RafflesGold Forums > Discussion Area > Green Water, Filtration and Tank Setup
goldfish82
halo to all lao jiao members here. i am a sin jiao in keeping goldfish. i saw some posting stating green water. can anyone tell me what is green water??
thanks.
white horse T1
QUOTE(goldfish82 @ Wed 25 Aug 2004 08:27 pm)
halo to all lao jiao members here. i am a sin jiao in keeping goldfish. i saw some posting stating green water. can anyone tell me what is green water??
thanks.
*


sin jiao

if u so sin jiao, should stick ad learn from normal water first lah and slowly upgrade to green water hmm.gif

since i also sin jiao. quick quick see this 1st b4 liao jio come and suan u tongue.gif

Green water
Seacucumber
harlo! hi.gif
i am also a sin jiao......
welcome to RG!
cktan
Hi,

My first post smile.gif and like to seek some advice from u ppl. I hv started using green water 3 weeks ago. The green water will usually become deep green within 3-4 days time. I read from previous post that green water will absorb ammonia and there is no other by-products e.g: nitrite and nitrate. However, i do notice there is some slight presence of ammonia (abt 0.1ppm) and quite high nitrite value (abt 0.5ppm) on the 3rd day. The green water sh hv matured by now. Im using a 150W MH onto a 40L Toyogo tub with three 1.5 inch (body length) goldfish inside.

Did anyone here actually measure nitrite value in yr green water? I know most ppl here make the assumption there is little or no BB and hence zero or low nitrite.
CyberET
woah, 150W onto a 40L tub? thats overkill (which partly explains y it turns deep green in 3-4 days)
whats your MH temperature? 6500K?
whats your highest recorded water temperature?
i would suggest u upgrade to a half filled 3ft guppy tub and raise the water level as the fish grows
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(cktan @ Wed 25 Aug 2004 10:57 pm)
... However, i do notice there is some slight presence of ammonia (abt 0.1ppm) and quite high nitrite value (abt 0.5ppm) on the 3rd day...

Did anyone here actually measure nitrite value in yr green water? I know most ppl here make the assumption there is little or no BB and hence zero or low nitrite.
*

Welcome to RG.

Did you use the right testkit to test for ammonia and nitrite? Most test kits on sale are not suitable since the water is tinted green affecting the result. You'll need to use the JBL kit which works for coloured water (green, black, medicated etc.) Also, make sure it hasn't expired.
cktan
yes, 150W onto 40 L of water looks too much. But the light is shine more to the right side of the tub and not at the center. I have also started using a cover to mask off some light. The 150W MH bulb (Osram delux white) is a <4000K lum. I hv a 10,000K lum but felt its really too bright and the goldfish didnt really like it.

I do have a 3ft tub set aside in my store room and will intend to use it when the goldfish grow bigger.

As for test kits, im using Aquarium Pharmaceticals brand. Not as accurate as tetra but i think still quite alright. I dont doubt the test kit results as the "color" of the nitrite gets darker each day and the test kits are new.

Happy Budda, did u ever test yr green water for nitrite say 3-4 days later after a water change? I believe small amt of BB still exist in green water in a suspended state and that explains the presence of nitrite?
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(cktan @ Thu 26 Aug 2004 08:53 am)
As for test kits, im using Aquarium Pharmaceticals brand. Not as accurate as tetra but i think still quite alright. I dont doubt the test kit results as the "color" of the nitrite gets darker each day and the test kits are new.
*

I can't offer any explanation on your finding. I think other bros may understand it better and tell you... but as far as I know, nitrite is produced by nitrosomanas bacteria, their presence of which takes weeks to cultivate. Assuming you started off cultivating your green water from scratch, ie, you didn't use some old water from your bio-filtered tank, then there shouldn't be any nitrosomanas bacteria. Without them... where did your nitrites come from? 0.5ppm is not a small amount (that can normally be in our tap water.) I still think you can't use single colour kit to test tinted water.

QUOTE(cktan @ Thu 26 Aug 2004 08:53 am)
Happy Budda, did u ever test yr green water for nitrite say 3-4 days later after a water change? I believe small amt of BB still exist in green water in a suspended state and that explains the presence of nitrite?
*

I have not done that on my green water but did recorded the results of my bio-green water, which don't apply here.. sad.gif
cktan
Hi HB,

The water is 100% new when i started out cultivating green water. My tap water has 0.01ppm ammonia and 0ppm nitrite. This is the 2nd time im trying green water. Both register the same results. It took abt 10 days for the water to become green. And that is also the time when nitrite is very high. Unfortunately, i read from previous post that members here did not measure nitrite, only measure ammonia. Its true that at 10 days, when water became green, ammonia is starting to become close to 0. But surprisingly, nitrite peaks under the assumption that BB did not manage to cultivate. Looks like the assumpton that BB didnt exist in green water cannot hold.

Maybe i sh do the test again a month ot two later, hoping the water changes and green water will eventually cause the BB to die off.
CyberET
so dark green in 3-4 days is seeded? and 10days is without seeding? hmm.. HB's bio-green results also quite similar le..

the sun seems very bright to me..
cktan
Yes, 3-4 days to become dark green. I seed back 10% of green water. Why did HB use bio with green? Is it because green water cannot effectly remove ammonia to zero?
square_guy
too little water lah....

therefore
1. green water can't remove ammonia at the rate it is produced at.
2. bb present due to too much ammonia, or maybe light color temp not optimal for green water. hence nitrite.
cktan
So i guess i am correct. green water is not as efficient as BB on a sponge filter. I hv tried both using same GFs and same amt of water. Using green water sometimes register very small amt of ammonia but with BB, ammonia is always zero.
The Matrix
QUOTE(cktan @ Fri, 27 Aug 2004 09:04 am)
So i guess i am correct. green water is not as efficient as BB on a sponge filter. I hv tried both using same GFs and same amt of water. Using green water sometimes register very small amt of ammonia but with BB, ammonia is always zero.
*


anyone interested to see tanks rolling into tiananmen ?

ck, before u make that conclusion, could you tell us, your setup, photo period, when u took the measurement, number of fish in the water, size of fish, feeding period, type of food, how much u feed, amount of water change .... every single detail of your "experiment" with the green water. you are comparing green water with sponge filter with respect to only ammonia readings.

I believe you are an engineering man. So where is the DOE/DEE ? How many unknowns, how many assumptions, how many predictions.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(cktan @ Thu, 26 Aug 2004 01:27 pm)
Maybe i sh do the test again a month ot two later, hoping the water changes and green water will eventually cause the BB to die off.
*

Kekeke. You don't have to wait until then; drop a few crystals (weighing less then 0.01 grams) of Japan Yellow Powder into the water and the BB will be killed instantly while leaving your fishes unhurt. wink.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(cktan @ Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:49 pm)
Yes, 3-4 days to become dark green. I seed back 10% of green water. Why did HB use bio with green? Is it because green water cannot effectly remove ammonia to zero?
*

Many reasons were involved but primarily because of the relatively weak PL lamp in used and the over-stocking of fishes. Yes, in this light the green water wasn't enough to remove ammonia completely.
jowy_ham
HB, what is the difference between bio-green and pure green water ?

Me confused after reading this thread. All along I have impression that :

- green water is green water ( no BB involvement ) and it is good for goldfish because it is food to goldfish and it helps to maintain optimum water quality ( except for oxygen burn con )

- Bio filteration is BB cultivated in sponge/filter medium that helps to convert the ammonia to nitrite and then nirate.

Now we have bio-green, is it a hybrie ( dunno how to spell ) of both ?

And since there is a issue of amount of green water to per fish ( too little green water, ammonia doesnt gets convert fast enough ), may I know what is the recommend volume ? same as per goldfish requirement -> bare minimum of 50L per goldfish ?

lao jiao bros, please chip in also so that I may learn tongue.gif

Thanks in advance
The Matrix
QUOTE(jowy_ham @ Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:13 pm)
Now we have bio-green, is it a hybrie ( dunno how to spell ) of both ?

And since there is a issue of amount of green water to per fish ( too little green water, ammonia doesnt gets convert fast enough ), may I know what is the recommend volume ? same as per goldfish requirement -> bare minimum of 50L per goldfish ?
*

You are correct about both the green water and Filtered water.

So combining both, you got bio-green-filtered-water. U have both good and bad of both world all-in-one.

In fact, there are another which is constant water flow, which many local farms are doing. So constantly water is replace/dilute/replenish .....

As for minimum vol, it depends on your fish varieties and size. Some need a minimum of 200L per fish, some requires just 50-80L for maintaining. Especially when the fish growing bigger, things change even more drastically. Some might need more depth, some lower. No fix rules, you got to judge how u want to develop the fish and how the fish is developing.

Of course, not many will go for such large vol especially when space in our home is a concern. Who want to keep 6 small goldfish in a 6x2x2 tank or larger.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(jowy_ham @ Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:13 pm)
HB, what is the difference between bio-green and pure green water ?

Now we have bio-green, is it a hybrie ( dunno how to spell ) of both ?
*

I think I'm the one who shamelessly coined the term bio-green, but it's probably not something I invented although i did carry out some tests to establish some facts and dispel some myths about green water. Yawn.

Yeah, it's a hybrid of clear and green water. I prefer to think of it as Clear Water with free-floating unicelluar algae added. On the other hand, cynics of bio-green will say it's Green Water with bacteria added. rofl2.gif So it's really how you see it, whether a cup is half-full or half-empty....

If you subscribe to my view about bio-green, you must first and foremost love filtered clear water. Setting one up correctly (including doing regular water change), your goldfish will thrive in it. However, we all know that there's something in filtered water that isn't good in high concentration -- nitrate. Bio-green overcomes this problem as my test results have shown bio-green is able to keep the nitrate count constant or prevent it from accumulating linearly on a daily basis.

So now you have filtered water without excessive nitrate. One cheer for Bio-green.

Next, there's additional source of food, the algae, for your goldfish to eat. The benefits of algae is well known so I won't repeat here.

So there you have it. Bio-green is a hybrid of Clear and Green Water.

QUOTE(jowy_ham @ Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:13 pm)
lao jiao bros, please chip in also so that I may learn  tongue.gif

Thanks in advance
*

Side track... you have always sounded and written sincerely but I would suggest others to avoid calling users here "expert", "lau jiao", or "guru" as *sometimes* it's taken wrongly, abeit like I see someone with a hair of golden spikey yellow hair and I say to him "Wah, your hair cool sia." That person might take my complement as an insult. wink.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:39 pm)
Of course, not many will go for such large vol especially when space in our home is a concern. Who want to keep 6 small goldfish in a 6x2x2 tank or larger.
*

I think on everyone's agenda is to educate and advocate newbies to keep the right amount of goldfish for their tank sizes, instead of recreating LFS's tank displays in their homes. Of course, this is only for true goldfish lovers. Afterall, a truly good sample of goldfish is hard to come by in Singapore; why fcuk it up by overcrowding its environment.
The Matrix
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Fri, 27 Aug 2004 05:06 pm)
I think on everyone's agenda is to educate and advocate newbies to keep the right amount of goldfish for their tank sizes, instead of recreating LFS's tank displays in their homes.  Of course, this is only for true goldfish lovers.  Afterall, a truly good sample of goldfish is hard to come by in Singapore; why fcuk it up by overcrowding its environment.
*


The problem is not many hobbyists can accept this basic principle. Simply if you try to tell someone about a min of 50L per fish, a 2x1x1 tank merely holds a single fish. Worst, like you mentioned, good specimens are hard to come by and small fishes are easily available here. It will be even harder to accept that a small 2-3" fish requires such large amount of water.

Remember your overcrowded tank ? How much effort you have put in to maintain it. Tell that to the world and see how many hobbyists will say "lu wu siao bo".

Again, like you have mentioned, only for true goldfish lovers that they will go the extra mile to ensure the environment is well within control.

Given that certain limitation like space to many hobbyists, like your initial idea of doing bio-green, educating them not in term of space but in term of water.

The old ancient chinese sayings remain true to today ... " keep fish first keep water " 养鱼先养水 ..... China Goldfish Master Liu said in his interview "don't know how to keep water, don't keep fish".

He, at 80+ yrs old, is keeping 6 large red-cap in a wooden tub some 1m diameter and around 30cm water.
cktan
6 large red cap in assuming 1m x 1m x 0.3m of water? That roughly comes our to be only abt 50L per goldfish. I tot he master? He also overcrowding his goldfish leh.

Confuse liao. Maybe he change his water every 4 days rather than 7.
mountain
QUOTE
The old ancient chinese sayings remain true to today ... " keep fish first keep water " 养鱼先养水 ..... China Goldfish Master Liu said in his interview "don't know how to keep water, don't keep fish".


too bad .. we don't have pui pui natural water .. all our water .. all so depleted of minerals sad.gif
Seacucumber
use EVIAN..... biggrin.gif
cktan
I just changed water last nite and realise theres some color change to one of the goldfish in just 18 days.

The white became yellowish orange and the orange became deeper orange.

It used to have white cheeks but now, yellow cheeks sad.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Fri, 27 Aug 2004 07:38 pm)
Remember your overcrowded tank ? How much effort you have put in to maintain it. Tell that to the world and see how many hobbyists will say "lu wu siao bo".
*

Grin. I better not say but those who track back will know it's 100%, twice a week. Strangely I still practice that despite providing 80-90L of water per fish. I guess I really don't like nitrate, or love to change water. Sichey siao indeed. smile.gif

Seriously considering no filtration at all.... ;) Geert is doing it. I would love to try it.

QUOTE(The Matrix @ Fri, 27 Aug 2004 07:38 pm)
The old ancient chinese sayings remain true to today ... " keep fish first keep water " 养鱼先养水 ..... China Goldfish Master Liu said in his interview "don't know how to keep water, don't keep fish".
*

There's another saying...

不会养水,那就常换水吧。哈佛

if you don't know how to keep water, change it often.
goldfish82
thanks to all sin jiao and lao jiao here for ur help. nw i understand what is green water. tongue.gif
cktan
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Mon, 30 Aug 2004 07:23 pm)
Seriously considering no filtration at all....  ;)  Geert is doing it.  I would love to try it. 
*


After u hv tried, lemme know hows the results smile.gif .

Maybe his water source is vastly different from us and thats why he can do 100% every 5 days. Dont forget he didnt even use water conditioner, just aged his water only. Our water dept uses chloromine (in certain places) besides chlorine. Aging the water wont remove the chloromine.

Buy water from him tongue.gif .
The Matrix
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Mon, 30 Aug 2004 07:23 pm)
不会养水,那就常换水吧。哈佛
*


继续换啦, 大佬
抽嘀时间学暇养水之道啦.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(cktan @ Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:16 pm)
After u hv tried, lemme know hows the results  smile.gif .

Maybe his water source is vastly different from us and thats why he can do 100% every 5 days. Dont forget he didnt even use water conditioner, just aged his water only. Our water dept uses chloromine (in certain places) besides chlorine. Aging the water wont remove the chloromine.

Buy water from him  tongue.gif .
*

K, I'll give it a try when I have more free time. Starting a new setup will take careful planning, observation and most importantly conducting tests to find an equilibrium. The no filtration method also requires heck of alot of water per fish, I presumed.

Yeah, chloramine is probably not present in belgium's water. Here we need to apply anti-chlorine to break them down to chlorine and ammonia. The fact that breaking down chloramine produces ammonia is something I have to look into in the filtration-free method... I suspect I will need to use even more water than Geert because of that. cry.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:06 am)
继续换啦, 大佬
抽嘀时间学暇养水之道啦.
*

养水,我识识地啦。
最近好阑肥,
换水当做运动减肥keep fit. wink.gif
是D傻仔成日买野来敲D水,不如换水好。
cktan
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:49 pm)
I still think you can't use single colour kit to test tinted water.
*


Just like to let ppl here know that this statement is wrong.

The Aquarium Pharmarceticals ammonia and nitrite test kits do work in color water, and they are quite cheap too

After i transfered the 3 GFs to the big guppy tub with the green water, a week later, the ammonia and nitrite registered 0mg/l using the AP test kits. The water is not very green even after 7 days.

Another lesson that can be learned is:
If the water turns intense green in just 2-3 days after a water change, then presence of ammonia in the water (maybe also nitrite, but this one i not sure) is very likely. The tub is overcrowded assuming same amt of feed given to goldfish.
HappyBuddha
Kekeke. What are you talking about?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2017 Invision Power Services, Inc.