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HappyBuddha
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Thu 26 Aug 2004 11:02 am)
By the way,do you feed Ranchu Lord?I wanted to try but do not know where to get the supply from.
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Off-topic...but you can get JRL from 3 places I know:

1. C328 - $20 a pack
2. Pet Mart - $20 a pack
3. JK Aquatic - $not sure.... but if I'm not wrong they only carry the 1KG pack and re-packed them into smaller jars. sad.gif
jowy_ham
Is Ranchu Lord better than Hikari Lionhead ?

Can show a pic of the packaging ?
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(jowy_ham @ Thu 26 Aug 2004 02:30 pm)
Is Ranchu Lord better than Hikari Lionhead ?

Can show a pic of the packaging ?
*

Pic, I have...

IPB Image

Better then Hikari Lionhead or not... I don't know but below are comparison of JRL, Lionhead and Chroma's ingredients.

a) JRL -- Protein: 47% min., Crude Fat: 6.8% min., Crude Fibre: 3% max., Ash: 10.9% max.
b) Chroma -- Protein: 60% min., Crude Fat: 9% min., Crude Fibre: 1% max., Ash: 8% max., PSB: 300 mg.
c) Hikari Lionhead -- Protein: 46% min., Crude Fat: 6.0% min., Crude Fibre: 5% max., Ash: 12% max

To understand what to look for in a pellet's ingredient, read up the pinned topic, Understanding Ingredients.
CyberET
QUOTE(jowy_ham @ Thu 26 Aug 2004 02:30 pm)
Is Ranchu Lord better than Hikari Lionhead ?

Can show a pic of the packaging ?
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better? yes.. is it work the extra cost? its up to u to decide
desireless
Pet Mart has been out of stock of JRL for very long. It was still out of stock the last week I went. sad.gif
RBT
JK(the one in geylang)is selling 1kg for $80.Works out to be $18/200gms
CyberET
dunno their stock move fast or not le..
Ranchu_Lord
i was told that jrl is better but chroma has a higher percentage of protein rite?
mountain
try lah ...
Seacucumber
too ex to use now leh.....
last time a 200gm pack cost $16 still can try....now $20 liao!
jowy_ham
QUOTE(Ranchu_Lord @ Thu 26 Aug 2004 06:40 pm)
i was told that jrl is better but chroma has a higher percentage of protein rite?
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No leh, based on HB's posting, Chroma has higher protein level than JRL.
QUOTE
a) JRL -- Protein: 47% min., Crude Fat: 6.8% min., Crude Fibre: 3% max., Ash: 10.9% max.
b) Chroma -- Protein: 60% min., Crude Fat: 9% min., Crude Fibre: 1% max., Ash: 8% max., PSB: 300 mg.
c) Hikari Lionhead -- Protein: 46% min., Crude Fat: 6.0% min., Crude Fibre: 5% max., Ash: 12% max

BTW HB, wat is PSB ??? ( ingredient in Chroma )
cktan
I tried Hikari Lionhead before but felt that the pellet is very hard. The goldfish seems to have a hard time chewing them.

Whatever pellets u used, dont buy the Qian Hu goldfish pellets. Sucks. Pour it in my food timer and the next day i can squeezed flat the pellets. Only one day in the food timer and the pellets "leaked" air liao.
Seacucumber
QUOTE(cktan @ Thu 26 Aug 2004 10:03 pm)
I tried Hikari Lionhead before but felt that the pellet is very hard. The goldfish seems to have a hard time chewing them.

Whatever pellets u used, dont buy the Qian Hu goldfish pellets. Sucks. Pour it in my food timer and the next day i can squeezed flat the pellets. Only one day in the food timer and the pellets "leaked" air liao.
*

Hikari Lionhead is one of the food that absorbs moisture and expands the quickest in contact with water. If you say its hard, try JRL, your fishes jaws will break.....hehehehehe.....

always stick to Japanese pellets for your goldfish.....in fact QH's products sux big time not only the goldfish food...
CP
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Thu, 26 Aug 2004 03:12 pm)
a) JRL -- Protein: 47% min., Crude Fat: 6.8% min., Crude Fibre: 3% max., Ash: 10.9% max.
b) Chroma -- Protein: 60% min., Crude Fat: 9% min., Crude Fibre: 1% max., Ash: 8% max., PSB: 300 mg.
c) Hikari Lionhead -- Protein: 46% min., Crude Fat: 6.0% min., Crude Fibre: 5% max., Ash: 12% max
*

Thanks HB.
goldrush
hello jowy ham

Photosynthetic bacteria,(PSB)comprising of Lactobacillus, Actinomycetes, Nitrobacteria, Denitrifying bacteria, Bifidobacterium, yeast, etc.are part of of a broad spectrum classification of bacteria under the acronymn:Probiotic . Probiotic bacteria are generally called the bacteria which can improve the water quality of aquaculture, and (or) inhibit the pathogens in water there by increasing production. The use of beneficial digestive bacteria in human and animal nutrition is well documented. Lactobacillus acidophilus is used commonly to control and prevent infections by pathogenic microorganisms in the intestinal tract of many terrestrial animals.(eg Yacult)Recently, the biocontrolling theory has been applied to aquaculture. Many researchers attempt to use some kind of probiotics in aquaculture water to regulate the micro flora of aquaculture water, control pathogenic microorganisms, to enhance decomposition of the undesirable organic substances in aquaculture water, and improve ecological environment of aquaculture. In addition, the use of probiotics can increase the population of food organisms, improve the nutrition level of aquacultural animals and improve immunity of cultured animals to pathogenic microorganisms. In addition, the use of antibiotics and chemicals can be reduced and frequent outbreaks of diseases can be prevented. Addition of the photosynthetic bacteria in the food or culture water was found to improve the growth of fish and the quality of the water,the survival rate, the abilities of disease resistence and the average body length and weight were increased. If you have noticed newer products in fish nutrition like goldfish and koi food,psb are highlighted as an additional supplement to its ingredients and marketed as an additional boost to both growth and immunity enhancement for the benefits of your fishes.

I hope that this answer to your question on what is PSB.


regards

yes.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(cktan @ Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:03 pm)
I tried Hikari Lionhead before but felt that the pellet is very hard. The goldfish seems to have a hard time chewing them.
*

Give the Lionhead pellets a try again. It's by far the best and most popular pellets for us goldfish lovers. If your fishes didn't eat them at first last time, just starve them a day or two and they'll chomp the pellets down this time. The pellets is not hard to chew at all...

QUOTE(cktan @ Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:03 pm)
Whatever pellets u used, dont buy the Qian Hu goldfish pellets. Sucks. Pour it in my food timer and the next day i can squeezed flat the pellets. Only one day in the food timer and the pellets "leaked" air liao.
*

Grin. Beside the lionhead and other branded pellets, I actually feed OceanFree's Special Fish Food pellets to all my fishy as snack. rofl2.gif These pellets has crude proteins of just 30% ... so my fishes don't get fat eating junk food between regular meals. wink.gif
jowy_ham
QUOTE(goldrush @ Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:05 am)
hello jowy ham

Photosynthetic bacteria, (PSB)comprising ... this answer to your question on what is PSB.
regards

yes.gif
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Wow, U champion beg2.gif beg2.gif

Thanks for the info. good_very.gif
patang
QUOTE(jowy_ham @ Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:02 pm)
Wow, U champion  beg2.gif  beg2.gif

Thanks for the info.  good_very.gif
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Well I just bought Japan Ranchu Lord 200g pack at $17 at clementi 328 2 days ago, I dunno why people still say the price is at $20???
Seacucumber
you are right....those you bought are the latest shipment.....tats why $17 liao...

initially it was $16, den shoot up to $20 and now drop to $17......
understand?? heehee
HappyBuddha
Just curious... anyone here feed their goldfish exclusively on JRL? unsure.gif
yamato38gunkei
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Mon, 30 Aug 2004 06:52 pm)
Just curious... anyone here feed their goldfish exclusively on JRL?  unsure.gif
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I do !!!!!

Regards,

Geert Coppens
Seacucumber
QUOTE(yamato38gunkei @ Mon, 30 Aug 2004 08:19 pm)
I do !!!!!

Regards,

Geert Coppens
*



beg2.gif beg2.gif beg2.gif
The Matrix
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Mon, 30 Aug 2004 06:52 pm)
Just curious... anyone here feed their goldfish exclusively on JRL?  unsure.gif
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for certain type of fish, yes I also exclusively on JRL around 2.5 pack a month. Some exclusively on worms.
nobnoba
matrix,
you have goldfish that are fed with JRL and others that are fed with worms? any noticable differences among the gfs?
The Matrix
QUOTE(nobnoba @ Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:46 am)
matrix,
you have goldfish that are fed with JRL and others that are fed with worms? any noticable differences among the gfs?
*


some are ranchu, some are dragon eyes, some are pearls and some are ryukins.
Sorry har, I dun just keep ranchu.

JRL, good food for some fish, not good for others.
Body mass build up nicely, wen not too bad.

Geert's ranchu are great examples of JRL result. Still need to go any further ?
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(yamato38gunkei @ Mon, 30 Aug 2004 08:19 pm)
I do !!!!!

Regards,

Geert Coppens
*

I regret asking because now prices of JRL in Singapore will sky rocket (again.) Kekeke.

In your "Food - Grow Series & Fine Fish Food Series" article, you mentioned (and losely translated here) "fish that ate pellets using wheat flour as binder produces sticky poo. The sticky poos pollutes the water dangerously. Food which the fish can fully digest are quickly broken down by BB." I can't agree more when I have noticed feeding my fishes frozen bloodworms produces very different kind of poos compared to feeding them Hikari Lionhead. The most obvious is the water don't turn bad as quickly. But until I read your mentioned article, I didn't know pellets like JRL and the Chanko series don't use Wheat Flour as binder. Nevertheless, since I find JRL and Chanko expensive (Chanko is not even available locally), I opted to feed frozen bloodworms to my priced fishes instead.

What's your opinion on feeding exclusively bloodworms? I ask because I never read you mentionining you ever feed bloodworm and I have been wondering why.

Also, please tell me what is "voedingstoffen". Thanks.
goldrush
Good morning bros

I cannot help but join in this feeding frenzy and I’m not surprised by the overwhelming response and attention given to this topic.Which food,what form and how often are our critical questions cracking our brains out to pacify our insatiable craving for the correct nutritional requirement of our beloved pets.Ultimately there is no conclusive answers but rather controversial,yet confusing feedbacks are the mainstays.

My question is to find an optimal diet not an adequate one.Then what is an optimal diet? I would conjecture that goldfish seem to do best on a fairly high protein diet, similar to that recommended for Koi and food carp. Goldfish needs vary with age and the season of the year. You can't feed the same food from birth to death, and hope for the best.Let us not be mesmerized by the myriads of names and brands avaliable in the market but get to the basics.If you have yearlings growing or a breeding pair choose a reputable high protein feed.If you have adult fish,oyas and matured fish choose feeds that are easily digestible like wheatgerm based.Too much of a good thing is never and will never be beneficial to fish nor humanToo much protein will lead to a lot of ammonia and partially digested protein wastes, and, if the human case can be used as an analogy, possible kidney and liver ailments over the long term, though I would say that many very successful goldfish keepers feed mixes at the high ends of these ranges. It goes to show it is rather difficult to mix your feed to cater to different age groups and fulfil their requirements if you have mixed varieties,different sizes and assorted ages .????????

Thus each hobbyist must decides on his level of playing,,his time and space constraint for there can be no perfect diet that caters to all and will never be. In short, it seems appropriate that recommendations of specific nutrient levels in a diet should include all the main elements.(protein,fats,carbohydrates,fibers,vitamins bla bla bla….) So if someone tells you that you are feeding "too much protein", they also need to tell you what you should feed instead ……………. good.gif


Cheers
Goldrush
The Matrix
QUOTE(goldrush @ Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:36 am)
Good morning bros

I cannot help but join in this feeding frenzy and I’m not surprised  by the overwhelming  response and  attention given to this topic.Which  food,what form and how often are our critical questions cracking our brains out to pacify our insatiable craving for the correct  nutritional requirement of our beloved pets.Ultimately there is no conclusive answers but rather controversial,yet confusing feedbacks are the mainstays.

My question is to find an optimal diet not an adequate one.Then what is an optimal diet?
*


Solid !
Like fries, we utilised bbs, daphnia, watever small, tiny, high nutrition value to make them grow. As they grow bigger, these tiny food become difficult for them to hunt around and worst unable to fill their stomach. Commercial food become the next best thing to use, be it worms or processed dried food.

Our local keepers are pampered by the varieties our local importers brought in. Instead of becoming a good thing, it can turn aweful. We are so comfortable with these commercial food that has printed on wonderful nutrition composition.

Doesn't one wonder how the chinese produce by millions, export by millions yet, what food are they using to create our choice of fish in our home. Or maybe the Japanese or even the Thais which have their own choice of food. Economically, it will be unwise for them to use such expensive dried food. So what did they used instead ? Don't tell me their food not good leh. Maybe it's not variable for us to produce it at home.

Do human also have an optimum diet ? Neh ... unless I going for Olympic 2008. I still want my bowl of laksa. It's dynamic, one meal chicken rice, another lor mee, maybe go for a nice steak .... problem - we control what we eat, we eat when we need.

Fish ? Human controls what these creatures eat, they eat when human (or machines) feed.

Food is only a small factor in fish keeping.
CP
Seven types of food for my goldfish - Hikari Lionhead,Chroma,Superfin Colour Enhancer,frozen bloodworms,live tubifex,peas and duckweed.
One type of milk powder for my son - Nespray

I SOMETIMES WONDER IF I HAVE MY PRIORITIES RIGHT!

Pellets and bloodworms are daily,the rest once a week.Theory :
Hikari - The staple diet
Chroma - High protein for growth
S Colour Enhancer - No prizes for guessing
Bloodworms - Because LFS owners say so
Live Tubifex - For growth and fibre
Peas - Vitamins and fibre,encourages poo,clears system
Duckweed - Fibre and colouration

They come with different poo types too :
Hikari - Brown,compact,lenght averaging 1 inch.
Chroma - Yet to see Chroma poo.Sudden bursts like diaorrhea except that it is in white powdery form
S Colour - Result like Hikari
Bloodworms - Red globule forms,not lenghty
Live tubifex - Soft and lenghty initially,fine and dispersed in the later stages
Peas - Most beautiful poo.Light green
Duckweed - Feed this if you want to enter the longest poo competition.Dark green and soft.

I wonder how many here enjoy watching fish poo as much as I do.
The Matrix
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Tue, 31 Aug 2004 04:50 pm)
I wonder how many here enjoy watching fish poo as much as I do.
*

Immediate I name 1 ... hahahahaha ... HB ..
yamato38gunkei
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Tue, 31 Aug 2004 04:50 pm)
Seven types of food for my goldfish - Hikari Lionhead,Chroma,Superfin Colour Enhancer,frozen bloodworms,live tubifex,peas and duckweed.
One type of milk powder for my son - Nespray

I SOMETIMES WONDER IF I HAVE MY PRIORITIES RIGHT!
......
*

No one could have it formulated better !!!!!
This is why I think it is better to feed only one type of food - one type of pellet food ! The best I know so far - Japan Ranchu Lord.
In my opinion, the best way to have a balanced diet for your RANCHU, is to feed the best possible balanced pellet food.
And my Ranchu just love JRL, and grow and grow and grow .....

Regards,

Geert Coppens
yamato38gunkei
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:53 pm)
I regret asking because now prices of JRL in Singapore will sky rocket (again.)  Kekeke.

In your "Food - Grow Series & Fine Fish Food Series" article, you mentioned (and losely translated here) "fish that ate pellets using wheat flour as binder produces sticky poo.  The sticky poos pollutes the water dangerously.  Food which the fish can fully digest are quickly broken down by BB."  I can't agree more when I have noticed feeding my fishes frozen bloodworms produces very different kind of poos compared to feeding them Hikari Lionhead.  The most obvious is the water don't turn bad as quickly.  But until I read your mentioned article, I didn't know pellets like JRL and the Chanko series don't use Wheat Flour as binder.  Nevertheless, since I find JRL and Chanko expensive (Chanko is not even available locally), I opted to feed frozen bloodworms to my priced fishes instead.

What's your opinion on feeding exclusively bloodworms?  I ask because I never read you mentionining you ever feed bloodworm and I have been wondering why. 

Also, please tell me what is "voedingstoffen".  Thanks.
*


"voedingsstoffen" is dutch for "nutrients".

I do not understand why JRL is so expensive in Singapore ! I buy it in large quantities in Japan and it is not more expensive than other pellet foods - even though the transport costs from Japan to Belgium are very high -.

In the past - before I knew JRL -, I fed 80% bloodworm and 20% Hikari Lionhead. My Ranchu developed well, but became sick now and then because the quality of the bloodworm was not always good. I also had problems with parasites.
In my country, the quality of bloodworm is very variable and contains parasites very often. The biggest enemies of our Ranchu are parasites and bad quality food !

Regards,

Geert Coppens
Seacucumber
so Geert,
may i ask how much does a single pack of 200gm JRL sells in Belgium??
aproximately how much in US$??
Seacucumber
and also Geert, have you encounter such packaging before??


IPB Image
mrchoco
chroma not cheap also...
$5 per 50g
4 packs for 200g also $20
same as JRL
yamato38gunkei
QUOTE(g-string @ Tue, 31 Aug 2004 02:46 pm)
and also Geert, have you encounter such packaging before??

*


Yes, I have seen it before. But I never used it. What is the difference with normal JRL ?

Regards,

Geert Coppens
The Matrix
QUOTE(yamato38gunkei @ Wed, 01 Sep 2004 02:28 pm)
Yes, I have seen it before.  But I never used it.  What is the difference with normal JRL ?

Regards,

Geert Coppens
*


No diff, same food, different packaging.
Seacucumber
is JRL from Japan Pet Drugs ??
cos the one i posted above at the bottom printed so.....
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(g-string @ Wed, 01 Sep 2004 06:51 pm)
is JRL from Japan Pet Drugs ??
cos the one i posted above at the bottom printed so.....
*

JRL is produced by Dojou Laboratory (どじょう養殖研究所)

It doesn't have a web site but the this Yahoo search link will bring you to lots of japanese sites with info on Dojou Lab's many other products.

Japen Pet Drugs Co has a web site. I downloaded their product catalog (6.3 MB), and can only find MediGold, Medi Super Gold etc but not JRL. Did you bought that pack in Thailand? rofl2.gif
Seacucumber
hehehehe.....me not stupid wor....
i downloaded the pic from a Thai website..... hehehehehe
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(g-string @ Thu, 02 Sep 2004 01:58 pm)
hehehehe.....me not stupid wor....
i downloaded the pic from a Thai website..... hehehehehe
*

Ahahaha. I must admit I didn't read you properly before and had the impression you looked at an actual pack in your hand.

Look what I discovered when I zoom in on that pic:-

IPB Image

They didn't claim it's made by Japan Pet Drugs (a well established company whose official web site I searched this morning and cannot find JRL listed as one of its product) because they printed "Japan Pet Drug" (singular Drug and not plural).

rofl2.gif
desireless
So what does it mean?? Different companies? 'Pirated' version? mad.gif
The Matrix
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Thu, 02 Sep 2004 03:40 pm)
Ahahaha.  I must admit I didn't read you properly before and had the impression you looked at an actual pack in  your hand.

Look what I discovered when I zoom in on that pic:-



They didn't claim it's made by Japan Pet Drugs (a well established company whose official web site I searched this morning and cannot find JRL listed as one of its product) because they printed "Japan Pet Drug" (singular Drug and not plural).

rofl2.gif
*


HOLY SH*T !!! Like dat also can .....

It does looks like the actual one ... damn. If u dun point that out, I also can't tell from the pic.
Seacucumber
tats why i spotted those words at the bottom actually spells JPD....

those Thais......haiz.....zipped....nothing to say...
desireless
Hahahaaa... hmm.gif

People who copied during exams... I've got to give it to them for their the guts...

But for someone who copied in exam BUT FROM THE WRONG BOOK... then it's Stephen Chow liao rofl2.gif
nobnoba
Since i could not find JRL in my country. Does any of you know any online stores that sells JRL? Seriously looking to buy JRL
Seacucumber
PM me....i can buy and post to u
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