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RafflesGold Forums > Discussion Area > Green Water, Filtration and Tank Setup
nobnoba
This new topic is split from here.

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QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Mon, 30 Aug 2004 07:23 pm)
Seriously considering no filtration at all....  ;)  Geert is doing it.  I would love to try it. 
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Can we open discussion on the merit of no filtration, changing 100% water?
The way i see it:
Day 0: Change water
Day 1: Ammonia starts to accumulate, nitrite 0, nitrate 0
Day 2: Ammonia continue to accumulate, nitrite probably starts too
Day 3: Ammonia continue to accumulate, nitrite accumulates
Day 4: Ammonia rising, nitrite accumulates
Day 5: Change water again.

If the model above is correct, won't our gfs be experiencing ammonia for days? Ammonia may be not at alarming level, but nonetheless most of their lives, there is ammonia present.
What do you all think? UNLESS we change 100% water EVERYDAY, then ammonia is out of the question.

i dont question geert's skills, i am a fan of his ranchus. i just want to see the logic behind 100% water change.
HappyBuddha
If you changed 100% of water weekly, and there's no biomedia in the setup, then there's no nitrite at all. Don't forget in a normal bio-filtration setup, it takes 4-6 weeks to cycle a new filter. I believe nitrite is present only after at least 1 week. So if you change water weekly and scrub the tank clean, nitrisomas bacteria don't have a chance to fully develop.

Ammonia is present in green water too especially on cloudy days, abeit in low quantities. So the way I see it a little ammonia won't hurt the fishes. The key in green water and in no filtration method is to have large quantity of water to "dilute" the ammonia build-up, enough water to stretch the water change interval. Finding food that the fish can digest fully will help keep the water in lower ammonia too.

Changing water everyday is practiced by other fish keepers, such as Discus. I wondered why for a while until someone told me that that's because Discus don't really need large space to roam about and thus keeping them in relatively small sized tank is okay so long as you change the water daily. For goldfish, we prefer to let them roam about in large space.
The Matrix
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Tue, 31 Aug 2004 06:33 am)
If you changed 100% of water weekly, and there's no biomedia in the setup, then there's no nitrite at all.  Don't forget in a normal bio-filtration setup, it takes 4-6 weeks to cycle a new filter.  I believe nitrite is present only after at least 1 week.
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Where there is water, there is life.

Nitrite will come in small quantity within a very very very short span of time. It is a natural process and with or without any filter or watsoever, the nitrogen element will be there.

Most of our aquarium test kits are unable to test it unless u use the field tester kit set.
HappyBuddha
If the amount is so insignificant..., there's little to worry about nitrite especially since the no-filtration setup requires regular frequent water change. The insignificant amount of nitrite can't accumulate to a dangerous level because of that. If you think about it, insignificant amount of nitrite should be present in a good green water setup too.
The Matrix
QUOTE(nobnoba @ Tue, 31 Aug 2004 02:20 am)
Day 0: Change water
Day 1: Ammonia starts to accumulate, nitrite 0, nitrate 0
Day 2: Ammonia continue to accumulate, nitrite probably starts too
Day 3: Ammonia continue to accumulate, nitrite accumulates
Day 4: Ammonia rising, nitrite accumulates
Day 5: Change water again.

UNLESS we change 100% water EVERYDAY, then ammonia is out of the question.
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Ammonia will start the moment u change water.

The rest of the nitrogen compounds will start within short period of time. Can be insignificant or can be dangerously high depends on the setup and habits.

For 100% water change, kick start of the unicelluar algae will take a long while to multiple. Thus a possible measurement of oxidized nitrogen.

For a seeded water, multiplication start after energy are applied. As such limiting, but not inhibit, the other nitrogenous element from possible forming.

Duration of water change depends on individual and how one control it. You can even learn the thai way of having constant water flowing to replace the old water.
nobnoba
HB,
i agree on your argument about the nitrite. i think there will be nitrite present although minimal. However, i think ammonia will accumulate to a relatively 'disturbing' level, since we will be feeding the goldfish daily(perhaps even twice a day).
PLUS, from what i saw in geert's website, he doesnt use more water per ranchu than we all use.
what do you think guys? Will geert have time to join our discussion on this topic?
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