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RafflesGold Forums > Discussion Area > Green Water, Filtration and Tank Setup
HappyBuddha
I've been asked to write a FAQ on how to set up a goldfish tank for newbies who want to get it right, right from the begining.

I don't know it all... so here's my draft and I ask for your comments. Eventually we'll collectively build the FAQ when I combined all feedbacks. biggrin.gif
HappyBuddha
Since it's for newbies, we'll restrict the setup to a clear water bio-filtered tank.

Tank Size & Stock Load

Most goldfish needs at least 50 litres of water per fish, assuming it's a 3-4 inches ranchu. You'll use the AquaCal to work out the volume of your tank. A typical 2x1x1.5 feet tank is 80 litres which means you can keep just one 3-4 inches ranchu. A 3x1.5x1.5 feet tank is 190 litres, so that's good for four 3-4 inches ranchus.

Filtration

Goldfish don't like current. So your filtration system must not generate unnecessary current. The most ideal filtration for goldfish is therefore sponge filter. Install one per fish.

Decorating your tank

Don't be a sissy. Keep the tank bare for easy mainatenence instead of wanting the oh so passe gravel bed. If you want a mini aqua eco system with plants, gravel, rocks, and a ferry's wheel that spins in techno colour, please keep a community tropical fish tank instead. Real goldfish keeper focuses on their goldfish, and not day dreaming about how cute the tank looks.

Sickness prevention

Goldfish is hardy. So long as you take care of the water, it takes care of itself. Most sickness can be attributed to bad water. Now, a tank of crystal clear water does not imply it's good water. Can you see bacteria/parasites and nitrate with your naked eyes?

Water change

One of the most commonly asked question is how often to change the water. No one can give you a concrete answer except yourself since we don't know your exact setup, your feeding routine etc. To find out when to change water, get a nitrate test kit. Change water on the day nitrate measures above 40 ppm. To stretch the interval, increase your tank size, or cut your stock load. There's no other way out. As a general rule, a stock load of 100 litres per fish with 3 feedings per day requires a complete water change once a week.

Feeding

The best food for goldfish, all things considered, is Hikari Bio-pure frozen bloodworms. Alternatively, feed Hikari Lionhead pellets.

Feed as much as your fish can finish in 5 minutes, taking a break of an hour and repeat 3 times per day.

If you follow the above, the hobby will be enjoyable where your fish don't fall sick and develops well.


Cheers
CP
For bio tank maybe you shd caution them not to add too many fish at the initial stage (common begineer mistake) until the tank is cycled say after 2 months to prevent the "new tank syndrome".
steffie
May I say for the feeding, feed the goldfish more veggies (like peas, bananas, spinach, frozen bloodworm, etc) instead of dry food. It's good for them, but don't give them mushroom. mushroom is a no no. However, Hikari brand is good smile.gif

You could also make gel food to feed them.
steffie
For water change,

change water 10% - 20% everyweek is good.

Don't forget dechlorinate the water.

As for me, I change the water every other day smile.gif



o o I forgot, they should cycled the tank first before have goldfish inside the tank.
Until the perimeter is fine, then they can add goldfish.

During cycling time, they can have danios inside the tank, danios helps cycling your tank.

I have 12 danios in my tank during cycling, it lasted 3-4weeks for the tank to cycle.

That's what I learnt smile.gif
The Matrix
HB, some questions .... my queries in BOLD and RED.

Filtration

Install one per fish. Erh .... 1 sponge per fish ??? got type wrongly or not ?

Feeding

The best food for goldfish, all things considered, is Hikari Bio-pure frozen bloodworms. Alternatively, feed Hikari Lionhead pellets. Hmmmm ... Japan Ranchu Lord is actually a good staple and growth food.

Feed as much as your fish can finish in 5 minutes, taking a break of an hour and repeat 3 times per day. Those use Auto-feeders, how can we be sure the fish can finish in 5 minutes leh ?
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:41 am)
HB, some questions .... my queries in BOLD and RED.

Filtration

Install one per fish. Erh .... 1 sponge per fish ??? got type wrongly or not ?

Feeding

The best food for goldfish, all things considered, is Hikari Bio-pure frozen bloodworms. Alternatively, feed Hikari Lionhead pellets.  Hmmmm ... Japan Ranchu Lord is actually a good staple and growth food.

Feed as much as your fish can finish in 5 minutes, taking a break of an hour and repeat 3 times per day. Those use Auto-feeders, how can we be sure the fish can finish in 5 minutes leh ?
*

Grin. I forgot that I was preparing this FAQ.

Er, yes... one guppy sponge per fish. Do you think that's not enough or an over-kill? unsure.gif Of course having more filter doesn't mean you get better filtration; there's a point of dimishing return depending on the waste load but my logic is the more sponge filters a newbie installed ... the more aeration a newbie will unknowingly create for our dear, DO craving, goldfish. I'm so smart! biggrin.gif

Without a doubt from what I read in geert's writing (mentioned elsewhere) that JRL is good. But in Singapore and for newbies with lousy fish, Hikari lionhead serves its purpose well enough for its cost effectiveness.

Erm... just try different openings on the AF and observe how quickly the pellets are eaten, adjust the opening until it's right.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(steffie @ Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:21 am)
For water change,

change water 10% - 20% everyweek is good.

Don't forget dechlorinate the water.
*

Here we advocate massive water change at least once a week, and by massive I mean 100% everytime. Although your method seemingly equals to 70% (10% x 7 days) per week, the comparison is flawed as nitrate accumulates linearly. Having a large amount of water is also able to buffer the deterioting water before requiring complete change; makes life easier.
top_view_ranchu
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:03 pm)
Here we advocate massive water change at least once a week, and by massive I mean 100% everytime.  Although your method seemingly equals to 70% (10% x 7 days) per week, the comparison is flawed as nitrate accumulates linearly.  Having a large amount of water is also able to buffer the deterioting water before requiring complete change; makes life easier.
*


Hi Founder,
Life is not easy doing 100% water change! I don't agree hmm.gif
You sud see me with my wet underwear when I do 100% change for 4 tub every 5 days! blush.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(top_view_ranchu @ Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:12 pm)
Hi Founder,
Life is not easy doing 100% water change! I don't agree hmm.gif
You sud see me with my wet underwear when I do 100% change for 4 tub every 5 days!  blush.gif
*

I don't believe and you'll have to send in a pic of you after water change to show me how wet the undies are.

I change more water then you without breaking out much sweat. It's all depends on how you setup the container.

Changing water is a lot easier compared to nursing sick fish back to health.
top_view_ranchu
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:18 pm)
I don't believe and you'll have to send in a pic of you after water change to show me how wet the undies are.

I change more water then you without breaking out much sweat.  It's all depends on how you setup the container.

Changing water is a lot easier compared to nursing sick fish back to health.
*


I'll request my wife to take pics of me in my wet underwear, on my next water change! That is if I don't get ban from keeping goldfish after that! Will keep you updated! tongue.gif

You know hor, I even use a metal tea spoon to scrape off stubborn stain leh....and that is usually under hot sun hor... mad.gif
The Matrix
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:58 am)
Grin.  I forgot that I was preparing this FAQ.

Er, yes... one guppy sponge per fish.  Do you think that's not enough or an over-kill?  unsure.gif  Of course having more filter doesn't mean you get better filtration; there's a point of dimishing return  depending on the waste load but my logic is the more sponge filters a newbie installed ... the more aeration a newbie will unknowingly create for our dear, DO craving, goldfish.  I'm so smart!  biggrin.gif

Without a doubt from what I read in geert's writing (mentioned elsewhere) that JRL is good.  But in Singapore and for newbies with lousy fish, Hikari lionhead serves its purpose well enough for its cost effectiveness.

Erm... just try different openings on the AF and observe how quickly the pellets are eaten, adjust the opening until it's right.
*


If every fish = 1 sponge filter, given a basic of 50L per fish, which would means that in a 4x2x2 ft tank, ~260L, the hobbyists going to use 5 sponge filter for a max of 5 fish in it ? If a keeper only put 2, then 2 filters ? If we use 80L per fish, that could only be a max of 3 filter in it. Chim .... very chim ... No wonder u smart ...
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Fri, 17 Sep 2004 1:42 pm)
If every fish = 1 sponge filter, given a basic of 50L per fish, which would means that in a 4x2x2 ft tank, ~260L, the hobbyists going to use 5 sponge filter for a max of 5 fish in it ? If a keeper only put 2, then 2 filters ? If we use 80L per fish, that could only be a max of 3 filter in it. Chim .... very chim ... No wonder u smart ...
*

I know. smile.gif And to think it will be hard to convince newbies to accept 50 litres per (3-4 inches) goldfish; 80 litres is... out of this world.
The Matrix
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Fri, 17 Sep 2004 1:50 pm)
I know.  smile.gif  And to think it will be hard to convince newbies to accept 50 litres per (3-4 inches) goldfish; 80 litres is... out of this world.
*


Need to convince one meh .... the fish will tell the story. I won't be bother if anyone change 10% or 100% weekly or 10L per fish or 100L per fish.

Just show the fish.

hahaha ... I am keeping in 150-200L per fish
desireless
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Fri, 17 Sep 2004 2:33 pm)
hahaha ... I am keeping in 150-200L per fish
*

Aiyah... You of course lah! laugh.gif

But most newbies start with very small tank. More commonly with a 2ft tank. So they do not understand the concept of overstocking. And because most keep g/f indoor, they are quite unwilling to start with bigger tank. Recently, got one newbie over at "that the other forum" keeps 7 fishes (some very good ones) in a 2-ft tank.

I believe the FAQ serve as something with higher requirement to build up their initial hobby discipline. Once they got a hang of it, they should be able to adjust when they upgrade.
top_view_ranchu
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Fri, 17 Sep 2004 2:33 pm)
Need to convince one meh .... the fish will tell the story. I won't be bother if anyone change 10% or 100% weekly or 10L per fish or 100L per fish.

Just show the fish.

hahaha ... I am keeping in 150-200L per fish
*


shiok.gif shiok.gif shiok.gif beg2.gif beg2.gif beg2.gif good_very.gif good_very.gif good_very.gif
Thats why your fish are fascinating!
CP
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Fri, 17 Sep 2004 2:33 pm)


hahaha ... I am keeping in 150-200L per fish
*

Mad.
CyberET
per fish value can be 4 digits.. i don't find 150-200litres mad smile.gif
just different levels of how into the hobby one is
CP
QUOTE(CyberET @ Fri, 17 Sep 2004 7:46 pm)
per fish value can be 4 digits.. i don't find 150-200litres mad smile.gif
just different levels of how into the hobby one is
*

Just joking la tongue.gif
mrchoco
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Fri, 17 Sep 2004 8:06 pm)
Just joking la tongue.gif
*


i am keeping one fish in a 3 ft...
i was just released from wood bridge last week....
tongue.gif
top_view_ranchu
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Fri, 17 Sep 2004 7:06 pm)
Mad.
*


I don't know why you're claiming this? But I can definitely tell the growth differences when I was keeping 50L per fish and now 100L per fish.
That volume of water per fish is my dream!
The Matrix
QUOTE(top_view_ranchu @ Fri, 17 Sep 2004 8:58 pm)
I don't know why you're claiming this? But I can definitely tell the growth differences when I was keeping 50L per fish and now 100L per fish.
That volume of water per fish is my dream!
*


Just imagine if u keeping 1 fish, ya just 1 single 5" in a 1 ton water .... hahahahaha ... and bo tai bo ji hand itch buy another one, so increase to 2 ton ... throw away all the koi and only keep this 2 fish.

Mad is not a good word to describe it ... it's Goldfish Madness !

shiok.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(top_view_ranchu @ Fri, 17 Sep 2004 8:58 pm)
I don't know why you're claiming this? But I can definitely tell the growth differences when I was keeping 50L per fish and now 100L per fish.
That volume of water per fish is my dream!
*

And do you have the answer as to why 100L is better for your fish compared to 50L? Magic? More "space" for your fish to roam about (I haven't seen any goldfish stupid enough to keep bumping into one another in a decent sized tank to the extend they can't move/exercise in it and so... don't pick this answer.) Or is it becoz your water quality is now twice as good/stays good twice as long?

My answer lies in a pic posted by our dear Geert on his unfiltered and relatively high stock load (relative to "madness"!!) of clear water. whistle.gif
steffie
I think if u give your fish pellets it should be ok, as long as you soak the pellets first for 5 min, then give to your goldfish.
CyberET
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:11 pm)
And do you have the answer as  to why 100L is better for your fish compared to 50L?  Magic?  More "space" for your fish to roam about (I haven't seen any goldfish stupid enough to keep bumping into one another in a decent sized tank to the extend they can't move/exercise in it and so... don't pick this answer.)  Or is it becoz your water quality is now twice as good/stays good twice as long?

My anwer lies in a pic posted by our dear Geert on his unfiltered and relatively high stock load (relative to "madness"!!) of clear water.  whistle.gif
*

jipun hee and cheena hee different neh
CP
Wah lau eh.
Never expected the 'mad' uttered can hit some nerves. unsure.gif

Apologize if you find it offensive,not meant to be sarcastic.I myself am keeping 9 in 750 litres,abt 80l per fish and still find my tank 'sparse'.I cannot imagine how 4 goldfish will look like if I were to base on 200l.

Most websites recommend 1 inch per gallon or abt 25l per fish.
Some base on tank area of 1 square foot per goldfish,eg a 4ftx2ft high tank may house 8 goldfish.

But its up to individual and I feel that the relation bet water volume and number of fish need not be linear - eg while it is recommended that you house 1 in a 2ft tank it is perfectly OK to house 2 in a 3 ft tank.
goldrush
Hi everybody


For those who refuse to calculate.For those who refuse to change water and for those who refuse to do anything but still wants to keep Goldfish…..Pls refer to the thread

http://www.lifeglobe.com/product/

and enjoy everlasting goldfish in a single aquarium with bubbles,plants gravels and most of all you need not feed it,nor,change its water nor,bother its requirement nor nurse it because it does not fall sick.Pls enjoy…..and its free yes.gif yes.gif yes.gif

Regards
Goldrush
top_view_ranchu
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:13 am)
Wah lau eh.
Never expected the 'mad' uttered can hit some nerves. unsure.gif

Apologize if you find it offensive,not meant to be sarcastic.I myself am keeping 9 in 750 litres,abt 80l per fish and still find my tank 'sparse'.I cannot imagine how 4 goldfish will look like if I were to base on 200l.

Most websites recommend 1 inch per gallon or abt 25l per fish.
Some base on tank area of 1 square foot per goldfish,eg a 4ftx2ft high tank may house 8 goldfish.

But its up to individual and I feel that the relation bet water volume and number of fish need not be linear - eg while it is recommended that you house 1 in a 2ft tank it is perfectly OK to house 2 in a 3 ft tank.
*


Bro cpiw,
I assure you my nerves wasn't hit! peace.gif
Was more worried that your joke might mislead keepers further, and STUNT more poor fellows!
There is hobbyist keeping 7 poor fellows in a 2ft tank (like what bro desireless have mentioned). Being encouraged further, might end up more poor fellows in the same tank! What happen if one day they realised their fish are stunted? Flush! R.I.P.? I'm no Saint, but still don't believe its right to ill treat lives.
I believe most hobbyist here like myself like fish shopping. I trust that many will agree with me that its very very difficult to control oneself from buying! It took me many meditation hrs to acheive that control! rolleyes.gif Also wasted many net space selling over crowded fish. tongue.gif
I feel its more advisable for newbies to adopt right concepts from start, then to learn the hard way.
I believe newbies will be convince now, or at least show pity on fishes or me for posting such a high risk threat here! beg2.gif
(Have to go hide in Bomb shelter now!) Bye!
The Matrix
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:13 am)
I feel that the relation bet water volume and number of fish need not be linear
*


I support that.
In fact, it's never linear.

I believe HB given only a guideline, not a fix rule.
Lester001
hi all... im new here.. i jst join dis RG since yesterday... tongue.gif. i hv two oranda which temperary kept at d 2nos of 2 fit tank. n i using canister system. FLUVAL 404 N EHEIM PRO II.. sad.gif after i found majority of pro brother n sister here doesnt encourage ppl to use dis type of filter apply to d goldfish. wat should i do nw... isit m i got to change my filtration system...? pls gv sum advice..
Lester001
im opology if all d bro n sister dun get wat i meant. coz of my english was very pool... :cry bside i jst started to learn hw to use d KH n apply on to my tank water to provide more comfortable environment for my 2 goldfish... its seen lots of thin i hv to learn from all d bro n sister here... :P
cktan
QUOTE(Lester001 @ Mon, 04 Oct 2004 8:49 pm)
hi all... im new here.. i jst join dis RG since yesterday...  tongue.gif. i hv two oranda which temperary kept at d 2nos of 2 fit tank. n i using canister system. FLUVAL 404 N EHEIM PRO II..  sad.gif  after i found majority of pro brother n sister here doesnt encourage ppl to use dis type of filter apply to d goldfish. wat should i do nw... isit m i got to change my filtration system...? pls gv sum advice..
*


wow, only 2 ft tank and u r using a Fluval and Eheim Pro. Try to diffuse the water current as goldfish dont quite like strong water current.

Actually, most of the ppl here are using simple sponge filter.
The Matrix
QUOTE(Lester001 @ Mon, 04 Oct 2004 8:49 pm)
hi all... im new here.. i jst join dis RG since yesterday...  tongue.gif. i hv two oranda which temperary kept at d 2nos of 2 fit tank. n i using canister system. FLUVAL 404 N EHEIM PRO II..  sad.gif  after i found majority of pro brother n sister here doesnt encourage ppl to use dis type of filter apply to d goldfish. wat should i do nw... isit m i got to change my filtration system...? pls gv sum advice..
*


50L tank n u put super washing machine inside. u champion liao. not dun encourage lah, dis type filter spin e h20 so rapidly til e fish peng san. big big tank ok lah. 1 spinner no enof, u put 2 sum mor.

u can try 2 by a sponge filter try lor, e 2 pro pro thing dump inside store rm.
goldrush
QUOTE(Lester001 @ Mon, 04 Oct 2004 8:49 pm)
hi all... im new here.. i jst join dis RG since yesterday...  tongue.gif. i hv two oranda which temperary kept at d 2nos of 2 fit tank. n i using canister system. FLUVAL 404 N EHEIM PRO II..  sad.gif  after i found majority of pro brother n sister here doesnt encourage ppl to use dis type of filter apply to d goldfish. wat should i do nw... isit m i got to change my filtration system...? pls gv sum advice..
*



Hi bro Les

U are subjectin your fish to constant threadmill exercise in a continuous whirlpool effect.Giddy lah,but definitely weigh loss in no time,No need xando ,extreme or cambridge diet.I think you should shelf your high powered filter for the time being till you upgrade to a bigger tank(I'm sure you will)Meanwhile keep to The Matrix suggestion of using the simple sponge filter(Works wonder) good.gif good.gif good.gif

regards
Goldrush
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