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RafflesGold Forums > Discussion Area > Green Water, Filtration and Tank Setup
HappyBuddha
Grin. Ever since seeing max's tank covered with carpet algae I've been looking forward to have my own. The attempt failed when my tank has insufficient lighting and low nitrate.

Unexpectedly, carpet algae started growing on my tub instead. The tub is placed indoors and only a small corner gets direct sunlight for about an hour a day. It amazed me that carpet algae appeared (alright... I was surprised nitrate level was high enough too. tongue.gif)

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The fishes are fed frozen bloodworms so it's been a delight to find green poos on the floor, which shows the fishes do eat the algae. Unfortunately I don't see any obvious improvements in colour. Maybe a month in a carpet algae tub is too short for any major benefit.

In any case, I've cleaned away the carpet algae as they didn't cover the tub nicely. Worse, one of my ryukin developed a habit of pointing its head down to feed on the algae. The way greedy goldfish is... he does it non-stop. I worry about his tails collapsing under its own weight and to my dismay, it has!!!! mad.gif I cleaned the tub yesterday and observed it was still doing his head-stand seemingly munching on the plastic floor. Today it has stopped doing that.

To recall how carpet algae 1st appeared after having the tub at the same position for many many months with no carpet algae....

It seems you need to build a foundation of "slime" on the tub's floor/walls. Normally every time I change water I would wipe away the slime but I missed doing it twice (ie, over a 2 weeks period) and that was when the algae started to appear. So... some sunlight, positive nitrate (ie, bio-filtration) plus "slime" to work as a "foundation" if you want a carpet algae tank. Good luck!

Cheers
top_view_ranchu
After green water gone in my main tub, this what happened!

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nobnoba
why do greenwater gone in your tub?
top_view_ranchu
QUOTE(nobnoba @ Tue, 12 Oct 2004 2:57 pm)
why do greenwater gone in your tub?
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Hi bro nobnoba,
You can find answer in this link : http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.ph...indpost&p=15951
top_view_ranchu
Experimenting on algae!
Growth going out of control. Enough supply for 3 more tubs! tongue.gif

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top_view_ranchu
Started off like carpet.
Now more like green cotton wool! laugh.gif

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peter porker
how to cultivate this thick lush green carpet?
infocus
QUOTE(peter porker @ Tue, 23 Nov 2004 9:29 pm)
how to cultivate this thick lush green carpet?
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Ya. How huh. I'm interested too. beg2.gif beg2.gif
top_view_ranchu
QUOTE(infocus @ Fri, 26 Nov 2004 7:46 pm)
Ya. How huh. I'm interested too. beg2.gif  beg2.gif
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See this link.

http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.ph...indpost&p=21080
infocus
QUOTE(top_view_ranchu @ Sat, 27 Nov 2004 1:00 am)


Besides bright light and water, what other parameters need to take note? The OHF I'm using consists of coral chips, ammonia rock and bio-ring. Will these and the BB prevent the growth of algae carpet? For my 2ft high tank, how much light do I need. Is PL-36W, 8000K enough? rolleyes.gif
top_view_ranchu
QUOTE(infocus @ Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:14 am)
Besides bright light and water, what other parameters need to take note? The OHF I'm using consists of coral chips, ammonia rock and bio-ring. Will these and the BB prevent the growth of algae carpet? For my 2ft high tank, how much light do I need. Is PL-36W, 8000K enough? rolleyes.gif
*



BB do prevent algae growth. Unless very strong sunlight!
Sorry, I know nuts about PL ---W,----K? tongue.gif
infocus
QUOTE(top_view_ranchu @ Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:09 pm)
BB do prevent algae growth. Unless very strong sunlight!
Sorry, I know nuts about PL ---W,----K? tongue.gif
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Okie. Will try to increase the intensity of my light then. peace.gif
CP
QUOTE(infocus @ Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:14 am)
Besides bright light and water, what other parameters need to take note? The OHF I'm using consists of coral chips, ammonia rock and bio-ring. Will these and the BB prevent the growth of algae carpet? For my 2ft high tank, how much light do I need. Is PL-36W, 8000K enough? rolleyes.gif
*


Actually,I fail to see the purpose of having ammonia rock in the filter (even though I use them blush.gif ),be it green water or blue water.
If you want to have algae in blue water (carpet type),remove the ammonia rock as the absorption of ammonia will prevent the nitrate build up which the algae needs as a nutrient.
As for green water,ammonia is the source of food for the unicellular algae(I learnt this from this forum);which makes no sense to have ammonia rock in green water as well.
I know that the ammonia rocks in my filter system has reached its absorption capacity long time ago since nitrates has has been produced.Although they can be re-charged by soaking in salt water,I had not bothered since I am cultivating BB and they need ammonia to thrive.I leave them there now as a media to house bacterias instead.

p/s - The professional term for ammonia rocks is zeolites. wink.gif
Allan
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Sat, 27 Nov 2004 4:22 pm)
I know that the ammonia rocks in my filter system has reached its absorption capacity long time ago since nitrates has has been produced.Although they can be re-charged by soaking in salt water,I had not bothered since I am cultivating BB and they need ammonia to thrive.I leave them there now as a media to house bacterias instead.
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Please remove (or recharge) your zeolite asap as they will start releasing absorded chemicals when they have reached their capacity.
infocus
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Sat, 27 Nov 2004 4:22 pm)
Actually,I fail to see the purpose of having ammonia rock in the filter (even though I use them  blush.gif ),be it green water or blue water.
If you want to have algae in blue water (carpet type),remove the ammonia rock as the absorption of ammonia will prevent the nitrate build up which the algae needs as a nutrient.
As for green water,ammonia is the source of food for the unicellular algae(I learnt this from this forum);which makes no sense to have ammonia rock in green water as well.
I know that the ammonia rocks in my filter system has reached its absorption capacity long time ago since nitrates has has been produced.Although they can be re-charged by soaking in salt water,I had not bothered since I am cultivating BB and they need ammonia to thrive.I leave them there now as a media to house bacterias instead.

p/s - The professional term for ammonia rocks is zeolites. wink.gif
*



The amount of ammonia rocks I put in is far last than the recommended amount for my tank. Reason is to lower the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate level. Not to remove it on a long term basis. This will help me to prolong the period between WC. That why I was shock when I got to know that my tank's nitrate level is so high when I measured it yesterday. I do not think that the algae need each high nitrate (160ppm) to grow. Or else, my goldfish will die before I can even get my hands on the algae carpet. But what is the recommended amount of nitrate for the algae without doing much harm to my fishes. I measured my nitrate this morning and found the level to be below 10ppm. The goldfish looks more active and lively after the WC and I also feel saver for them.

If you want the algae carpet to grow, why are you cultivating the BB? Is there any reason behind? unsure.gif
mrchoco
dunnoe just continue to change water every week..
can add some liquid fertilizer also after changing water.
getting some positive results...
infocus
QUOTE(Allan @ Sat, 27 Nov 2004 5:47 pm)
Please remove (or recharge) your zeolite asap as they will start releasing absorded chemicals when they have reached their capacity.
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Allan, do you know if Seachem de*nitrate is also a type of zeolite? The lfs told me it will not release absorded chemicals when the capacity is full. Anyone knows if that is true? ohmy.gif
infocus
QUOTE(mrchoco @ Sat, 27 Nov 2004 6:48 pm)
dunnoe just continue to change water every week..
can add some liquid fertilizer also after changing water.
getting some positive results...
*



Correct woh! Why never think of that huh. You're really thinking out of the box man. good.gif I just added some by the way. Let see got any effect or not. shiok.gif
CP
QUOTE(Allan @ Sat, 27 Nov 2004 5:47 pm)
Please remove (or recharge) your zeolite asap as they will start releasing absorded chemicals when they have reached their capacity.
*


Huh? ohmy.gif
My impression is that it will release ammonia when in contact with salt.I do not add salt into my tank which was why I left it in.I will not re-charge it,I will discard it,but pls let me know what other chemicals besides ammonia that it will release.
CP
QUOTE(infocus @ Sat, 27 Nov 2004 6:34 pm)
. But what is the recommended amount of nitrate for the algae without doing much harm to my fishes.
If you want the algae carpet to grow, why are you cultivating the BB? Is there any reason behind? unsure.gif
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I do not know what nitrate levels trigger algae growth,some say 20ppm,some say 50.I only know that sunlight (or artificial light) is more important to trigger it off and they subsequently use nitrates as the nutrients.

No,I do not want carpet algae at the moment as my tank serves as part of my home decor (and strong objections from the Minister of Home affairs).I am cultivating BB for the sole purpose of having a cycled tank.
I keep the algae growth in check by having a pleco (sucker fish).You'll be surprised how a small pleco can keep the algae in check in my 7 foot tank!
CP
QUOTE(infocus @ Sat, 27 Nov 2004 7:09 pm)
Allan, do you know if Seachem de*nitrate is also a type of zeolite? The lfs told me it will not release absorded chemicals when the capacity is full. Anyone knows if that is true? ohmy.gif
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AFAIK,in this forum at least,no bros has managed to solve the nitrate issue.Some has tested using de-nitrators,it may reduce but not eliminate,therefore the common practise is still the primitive method - CHANGE WATER.

And,in my opinion,you already know more than what most lfs know,so unless they are truly experienced,do not regard them as your consultants. hmm.gif
infocus
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Sat, 27 Nov 2004 9:29 pm)
I do not know what nitrate levels trigger algae growth,some say 20ppm,some say 50.I only know that sunlight (or artificial light) is more important to trigger it off and they subsequently use nitrates as the nutrients.

No,I do not want carpet algae at the moment as my tank serves as part of my home decor (and strong objections from the Minister of Home affairs).I am cultivating BB for the sole purpose of having a cycled tank.
I keep the algae growth in check by having a pleco (sucker fish).You'll be surprised how a small pleco can keep the algae in check in my 7 foot tank!
*



If only 20ppm, will not be a problem at all. 50ppm also easy to achieve but would prefer to keep it below 50ppm.

A small pleco can keep your 7 foot tank algae free? That amazing!
mrchoco
denitrator will not remove however it will control and maintain a limit to your tank nitrates.

assume the 2 senerios

1. no denitrator
after 7 days nitrate = 100ppm
meaning that on the 7th day, your fish is subjected to 100 ppm

2. with a working denitrator
after 7 days nitrate = 20 ppm.
this means that your fish is under 20 ppm nitrate stress only
i have tried one month no change water and nitrates are under 20 ppm given reasonable feeding. The only problem i have is the tubes always got stuck with sludge...
darmn irritating and fixing it always cause you more time and effort then changing water!!!!

water change will take away other organic matters not taken away by a denitrator.
which means water change is still needed.
Allan
QUOTE(infocus @ Sat, 27 Nov 2004 7:09 pm)
Allan, do you know if Seachem de*nitrate is also a type of zeolite? The lfs told me it will not release absorded chemicals when the capacity is full. Anyone knows if that is true? ohmy.gif
*


Sorry I'm not familiar with this product although I've seen it in many LFS's shelf collecting dust. smile.gif

QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Sat, 27 Nov 2004 9:13 pm)
Huh? ohmy.gif
My impression is that it will release ammonia when in contact with salt.I do not add salt into my tank which was why I left it in.I will not re-charge it,I will discard it,but pls let me know what other chemicals besides ammonia that it will release.
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My apologies; I've just tried searching for info on zeolite on it desorbing property but it yields nil return -- I may have confused zeolite with activated charcoal. sad.gif

In any case, while searching I came across other uses of zeolite and a new way (to me) to recharge it -- sunning it. Sunning it sure beats recharging using salted water eh?

http://www.s4qualityshavings.com/id24.htm
The Matrix
zeolite will only discharge if the dip solution is above 5% salinity. it will lost the capacity once fully depleted. even a discharge will not regain the original adsoption properties. the problem is , who knows how long it can last. kekekeke ...
The Matrix
denitrator require low O2 water to flow thru the chamber, usually extensive long and slow flow, to biologically break up the NO3+ ions. And by doing so, it is not as simple as just to dump some commercial products into those filter chamber we got in our tanks or filter box.

If one buying such product without doing proper research, then it's a waste of money.

Look at these statement from Seachem :

Water changes and biological removal of nitrate by anaerobic denitrification or the harvesting of vegetative growth (algae scrubbers) remain the most effective means of controlling nitrate.

denitrate™ removes nitrate by anaerobic denitrification..

Excessive flow rates should, therefore, be avoided, as they may impede development of an adequate anaerobic environment to support denitrifying bacteria.

At high flow rates (greater than 100 gallons per hour), it will function solely as an aerobic filter. At slow flow rates (less than 50 gallons per hour), it will function as both an aerobic Älter and an anaerobic denitrifying filter.



So how many bottles of denitrator to fill the canister or filter box .... invest wisely, not dumping money for another nitrifying material.
CP
QUOTE(Allan @ Sun, 28 Nov 2004 8:18 am)
In any case, while searching I came across other uses of zeolite and a new way (to me) to recharge it -- sunning it.  Sunning it sure beats recharging using salted water eh?

http://www.s4qualityshavings.com/id24.htm
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Thanks for searching. smile.gif

I only mentioned half the step to re-charge zeolites.You are supposed to soak them in salt solution (salinity as mention by bro Matrix) AND THEN dry it out in the sun.

Zeolites absorps predominantly ammonia,so if you have zeolites saturated with ammonia you should not add salt to your aquarium otherwise ammonia will be leached back out.

I still believe that zeolites are not necessasry for our hobby,the only use that I can think of is the use during the start up of a tank with a heavy stock level where the tank is not cycled yet and you do not want an ammonia surge during the initial stages.
CP
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:21 am)
.............regain the original adsoption properties. the .................
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Noticed you used the word 'adsorption'.
I am not sure whether zeolites work by absorption or adsorption.Its different and I find it kind of 'cheem'.

Activated carbon works by adsorption.
The Matrix
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Sun, 28 Nov 2004 1:53 pm)
Noticed you used the word 'adsorption'.
I am not sure whether zeolites work by absorption or adsorption.Its different and I find it kind of 'cheem'.

Activated carbon works by adsorption.
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Reproduced from a site where I always refer to when asked about this question. Kinda fun becos I also blur during my study on chemistry. Have fun reading ..


The use of solids for removing substances from either gaseous or liquid solutions has been widely used since biblical times. This process, known as adsorption, involves nothing more than the preferential partitioning of substances from the gaseous or liquid phase onto the surface of a solid substrate. From the early days of using bone char for decolorization of sugar solutions and other foods, to the later implementation of activated carbon for removing nerve gases from the battlefield, to today's thousands of applications, the adsorption phenomenon has become a useful tool for purification and separation.

Adsorption phenomena are operative in most natural physical, biological, and chemical systems, and adsorption operations employing solids such as activated carbon and synthetic resins are used widely in industrial applications and for purification of waters and wastewaters.

The process of adsorption involves separation of a substance from one phase accompanied by its accumulation or concentration at the surface of another. The adsorbing phase is the adsorbent, and the material concentrated or adsorbed at the surface of that phase is the adsorbate. Adsorption is thus different from absorption, a process in which material transferred from one phase to another (e.g. liquid) interpenetrates the second phase to form a "solution".
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