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CP
One of my idealistic aim when I started off this hobby is to design a system so perfect that water changes are eliminated or minimised.To date,it remains well......idealistic. sad.gif

For bio tanks,we all know that the end product is nitrates.And nitrates above 50ppm is harmful over the long term and stunts the fish.Whereas there are many products in the market that reduces (or is it CLAIMS to reduce),does it mean that our problem is solved if we manage to get rid of nitrate? thinking.gif

I used to think that solving the nitrates issue means EUREKA!!!Till I came to know about this "growth inhibitor" issue.I have read about it somewhere in the website before but had never seriously give it a thought till recently when a fellow forumer (bro Goldrush) mentioned it in one of his topics. no.gif

The fact (or is it theory) is that fishes will continue to secrete "growth inhibitors"
to prevent themselves from growing in a cramped environment(our fish tanks),to boost their chances of survival.This occurs naturally,much like when DO is low (eg when you off the air pump),the fishes will lie low and become less active knowing that oxygen supply is limited.

So what does it tell us?It means that we still have to perform water changes to get rid of the growth inhibitors if we want our fishes to grow,irrespective of whether nitatres,nitrites,ammonia and whatsoever has been eliminated. mad.gif
Unless,of course,there is this thing in the market called "growth inhibitor remover-add 5ml per 100l of water weekly".

Was wondering if growth inhibitors can be measured.Eg,if nitrates to be kept at less than 50ppm,growth inhibitors shd br kept at xppm.Best of all,if it can be eliminated. smile.gif
Jos Nana
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Mon, 01 Nov 2004 2:14 pm)
One of my idealistic aim when I started off this hobby is to design a system so perfect that water changes are eliminated or minimised.To date,it remains well......idealistic. sad.gif

For bio tanks,we all know that the end product is nitrates.And nitrates above 50ppm is harmful over the long term and stunts the fish.Whereas there are many products in the market that reduces (or is it CLAIMS to reduce),does it mean that our problem is solved if we manage to get rid of nitrate? thinking.gif

I used to think that solving the nitrates issue means EUREKA!!!Till I came to know about this "growth inhibitor" issue.I have read about it somewhere in the website before but had never seriously give it a thought till recently when a fellow forumer (bro Goldrush) mentioned it in one of his topics. no.gif

The fact (or is it theory) is that fishes will continue to secrete "growth inhibitors"
to prevent themselves from growing in a cramped environment(our fish tanks),to boost their chances of survival.This occurs naturally,much like when DO is low (eg when you off the air pump),the fishes will lie low and become less active knowing that oxygen supply is limited.

So what does it tell us?It means that we still have to perform water changes to get rid of the growth inhibitors if we want our fishes to grow,irrespective of whether nitatres,nitrites,ammonia and whatsoever has been eliminated. mad.gif
Unless,of course,there is this thing in the market called "growth inhibitor remover-add 5ml per 100l of water weekly".

Was wondering if growth inhibitors can be measured.Eg,if nitrates to be kept at less than 50ppm,growth inhibitors shd br kept at xppm.Best of all,if it can be eliminated. smile.gif
*



On water changes, perhaps you should look for HN Lim at the other forum. If I recall correctly, his system 1 year change water 3 times only and he got 30 yrs experience. Even bred his own ranchus to sell. Own identity one - analfinless line !
articguardian
So cool! I didn't know that there's this "growth inhibitor" thingy. My father rears these two luohans from birth but they've stopped growing now,they are about palm size big but I think they can still grow bigger. I've always suspect that it got something to do with the size of the tank that's too small (cos they leap out of the water like dolphins sometimes). But my mom doesn't want to buy a bigger tank. There's nothing I can do about it. yes.gif
goldrush
Hi CP
Glad that you took my issue seriously.Just to add to your findings.

Do you know that ammonia at less than toxic concentrations can act as a growth inhibitor. An excellent reason to maintain ammonia at zero levels.

However, research has shown that our ponds contain other growth inhibitors, known as pheromones which are released into the water by our fish. The pheromones are species specific, i.e. will act upon fish of the same species, they are organic in nature (aha remember how I oxidised these thro KMno4 ) rolleyes.gif and toxic to our fish if present in large quantities. At a reduced level they will inhabit the growth rate of our fish

Therefore, if your stocking rate is high or your pond is too small, or your ammonia reading is high due to inadequate filtration and you fail to change some of the pond water at the accepted frequency, your fish growth rate will be low and reaching its potential will be out of question

regards

Goldrush yes.gif yes.gif yes.gif
jhansolo
I also read about growth inhibitors can be removed by activated carbon.

In fact this topic is very swallow in research ... I do believe that if you never change the size of your kids shoe ... their feet will be small and rectification actions later will not blow up their feet.

As for pheromones ... I believe that is link to breeding aspect, not so much on growth. Again this isn very new and in fact perfume industry is racing to find / pin point the magical potion.
CP
QUOTE(jhansolo @ Mon, 01 Nov 2004 2:52 pm)
I also read about growth inhibitors can be removed by activated carbon.

.
*

I hope that its true!!Can anyone clarify?
desireless
QUOTE(Jos Nana @ Mon, 01 Nov 2004 2:22 pm)
On water changes, perhaps you should look for HN Lim at the other forum. If I recall correctly, his system 1 year change water 3 times only and he got 30 yrs experience. Even bred his own ranchus to sell. Own identity one - analfinless line !
*

rofl2.gif
jhansolo
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Mon, 01 Nov 2004 3:51 pm)
I hope that its true!!Can anyone clarify?
*

http://www.fancykoioutlet.com/chris/chris_stressandkoi.htm

Almost right at the end of the page

The use of activated carbon has been shown to remove organic agents such as pheromones.
jowy_ham
But if I didnt remember wrongly, activated carbon will also cause HIH diease leh no.gif
nobnoba
this topic is really interesting.
i always wonder, since we always keep goldfish in a tank/fiber, can goldfish be kept in a pond?
if yes, how about the water change? you cant expect us/owner to change water in a pond every week? its hell!
anyone here keeping TVR in a pond?
Seacucumber
QUOTE(nobnoba @ Tue, 02 Nov 2004 1:52 am)
this topic is really interesting.
i always wonder, since we always keep goldfish in a tank/fiber, can goldfish be kept in a pond?
if yes, how about the water change? you cant expect us/owner to change water in a pond every week? its hell!
anyone here keeping TVR in a pond?
*


who makes you think none of us keep in pond??
hehehehe wink.gif
CP
QUOTE(jowy_ham @ Mon, 01 Nov 2004 10:45 pm)
But if I didnt remember wrongly, activated carbon will also cause HIH diease leh  no.gif
*

Disagree,unless substantiated. hmm.gif
But it is said that activated carbon will take the colour out of arowanas,however this statement is also not substantiated. no.gif
CP
QUOTE(nobnoba @ Tue, 02 Nov 2004 1:52 am)
this topic is really interesting.
i always wonder, since we always keep goldfish in a tank/fiber, can goldfish be kept in a pond?
if yes, how about the water change? you cant expect us/owner to change water in a pond every week? its hell!
anyone here keeping TVR in a pond?
*

Not sure abt Indonesia,but here when we say keeping in ponds it is likely to be cement ponds with regular water changes.Water is drawn from well and reservoirs,though. smile.gif
Natural mud ponds may be better,but I have yet to come across hobbyists who keep their pets in mud ponds.
GF Lover
QUOTE(nobnoba @ Tue, 02 Nov 2004 1:52 am)
this topic is really interesting.
i always wonder, since we always keep goldfish in a tank/fiber, can goldfish be kept in a pond?
if yes, how about the water change? you cant expect us/owner to change water in a pond every week? its hell!
anyone here keeping TVR in a pond?
*

When you say pond, how big you are referring to? I have seen it when I was small when my brother brought me to a fish farm somewhere in KL. Have no clue the location, probably by now it is where the Petronas Twin Tower is. Saw many oranda in a very big shallow pond. Maybe half basket ball sized sheltered pond. Is that considered big? Look into Alvin Lim's website. It shows some Japanese Ponds in Yatomi. Is that big enough? Website:
http://www.geocities.com/goldfishsg2000/cover.html

Steady Alvin for the good work. Maybe the Ozeki mambers and Matrix can convey my praise for the excellent work Alvin has put in. salute.gif clap.gif
goldrush
Mornin guys and dolls


I’m not too sure whether mud pond has any benefits for goldfish but it does wonders to koi for sure.It brings out the luster and color.Infact we have to artificially insert these missing minerals and elements to our man made pond through introducing clay(monmorillonite clay of smectite origin) Montmorillonite clays, depending of the chemical composition and purity, enhances water quality, replenish and enhance minerals and remove certain unwanted wastes. The uses and benefits go further than this. Montmorillonite improves the lustre and skin quality of koi as well as heightening the colour. Added to food it is claimed to aid digestion and increase the koi’s ability to assimilate the vitamins and minerals required in their diet. Because montmorillonite clay is used as a human health food as well as in the fish industry, claims by health experts make interesting reading. An average mineral analysis of Montmorillonite by health experts demonstrate it contains no less than 67 minerals, including vital trace minerals. Recently it has been recognized and utilized by the cosmetic industry and by soil experts, who value it as an exceptionally good agricultural enhancement: crops grow faster, taste better, and are more resistant to disease.
Montmorillonite contains a balance of minerals in their natural colloidal form, making it easily assimilated. The minerals present in montmorillonite enhance the production of enzymes in all living organisms.
Apart from introducing these clays to my koi pond,I have occasionally sprinke some on a weekly basis on the goldfish pond as well.But results are not substantiated and conclusive.Those clays marketed by koi dealers are usually rather ex(eg refresh/refine/Kusuri clay)I use the cheapest available.:Cat litter.Yes You read that right.The brand I’m using is CATSCAN unscented cost about $5-$6 per 5 kg only .and is readily available in supermarkets and pet shops.It contains calcium bentonite and it’s suppose to absorb the odour from cat’s undoing.
Montmorillonite also makes a wonderful, cheap face pack. Try washing your hands with it - the skin feels wonderful afterwards.
So guys time for some experiment

Regards

yes.gif yes.gif yes.gif
goldrush
The Matrix
QUOTE(goldfish Lover @ Tue, 02 Nov 2004 10:08 am)
When you say pond, how big you are referring to? I have seen it when I was small when my brother brought me to a fish farm somewhere in KL. Have no clue the location, probably by now it is where the Petronas Twin Tower is. Saw many oranda in a very big shallow pond. Maybe half basket ball sized sheltered pond. Is that considered big?
*


Well, the largest pond that I ever seen in picture on how chinese keep their fishes is several ponds of size 4x a football field. Some farms stretch thousands feet squares. Some combine farms as large as Ang Mo Kio.

If not how they ship millions of fish a month ?
nobnoba
Guys,
actually i was reffering to fish pond that people usually have at home. not the fish farm. those fish pond at home that just for decoration and LANDSCAPING purposes, u know what i am reffering to? well, with that kind of pond, we cant change water every week. can we? thinking.gif
goldrush
QUOTE(nobnoba @ Tue, 02 Nov 2004 5:45 pm)
Guys,
actually i was reffering to fish pond that people usually have at home. not the fish farm. those fish pond at home that just for decoration and LANDSCAPING purposes, u know what i am reffering to? well, with that kind of pond, we cant change water every week. can we?  thinking.gif
*




you mean this kind of pond?

IPB Image
goldrush
This is my 20 ton pond in which 12 tons are free swimming space and 8 tons are my filter.I cannot afford to change 100% of the water as such water maintainence include daily backflush of filters,Water top up to make up for shortfalls,monthly KMno4 treatment to ensure parasite population are under control.Monthly addition of Microlift to remove sludge and seeding of benificial bacteria.Mineral replenishment through adding of calcium bentonite clay.


Now the fish swim in crystal clear and highly polished water(paradise?)


shiok.gif shiok.gif shiok.gif

goldrush

IPB Image
goldrush
Almost paradise



rolleyes.gif

IPB Image
CP
QUOTE(goldrush @ Wed, 03 Nov 2004 9:56 am)
Almost paradise
rolleyes.gif
*

good.gif
I have scrutinised the attached pics and very surprised to realise........NO KOHAKUS!! (those not into Koi,its refering to red/white)
Anyway,I have a burning question related to this topic which I intend to ask Max (of Max Koi farm) but since you are available hopefully you can clarify:

How do koi keepers deal with nitrates and growth inhibitors?Ponds can range from 10 to 1000 tonnes of water,obviously no massive water changes done weekly.I had no chance to test the water for nitrates but would speculate that the level should be in the hundreds.Most ponds are bio-green so called,with algae on the sides and floor of the pond,looks green from above but crystal clear when scooped up. I bet your water is crystal clear though it looks green fron the pic.
My suspicion is that the amount of algae present is hardly enough to control the nitrate levels to below 50ppm,the value we try so hard to maintain for our goldfishes.
So,are kois more tolerant to nitrates and growth inhibitors?I have a friend who keeps 8 kois in 15 tonnes of water,his filtration system is another 10 tonnes by my estimation,he does water changes something like once every 4 to 6 months.Yet the kois(may I add expensive kois) keep growing. thinking.gif
goldrush
Hi CP


Now to answer your question of nitrate management,this can be reduced in two ways
1)regular water changes
2)incorporating the vegetable filter:Notice in my attached pictures are two hydropnic plants which are feeding constantly through the water course(at the final filter)They are of Scindapsus aureus(money plant)and Monstera deliciosa(swiss cheese plant)species and are strategically planted as a landscape inclusion as well as a nitrate controller.See attached and compare the growth of these plants under such nutrient riched pond .In a way koi are more hardy and can tolerate higher nitrate but we still try to reduce growth inhibitors through religious water changes and Kmno4 bombing.
Your friend is well informed enough to incorporate a good filter to pond ratio hence the reduce frequency in water changes and another factor could be he has his hands on very good bloodline koi of reputable lineage that have parents that boast of certain length,body conformation and pattern hence the remarkable growth rate .Hope these answer your relevant question

IPB Image

Now can you see my Kohaku swimming on top of the pic attached(He has being with me for 6 years and is about 75cm. Its of Sakai bloodline.
Sorry for posting in this goldfish forum about koi. Moderators pls excuse me sorry-big.gif

Regards

goldrush yes.gif happydance1.gif good_very.gif
CP
Thanks,Goldrush.
I guess different people have different methods of maintaning water quality,or have different views and theories in the first place.My friend would have never heard of KMnO4,and I hardly see any plants at Koi farms,including their rental ponds.
Just one last question,if you dont mind.
What nitrate levels,in your viewpoint is the maximum allowed for goldfish or koi?

salute.gif
The Matrix
hmmmm .... just 1 simple question

How do you administrate KMnO4 ?
goldrush
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Wed, 03 Nov 2004 9:37 pm)
hmmmm .... just 1 simple question

How do you administrate KMnO4 ?
*



Hi matrix

I have previously posted in KMno4 discussion and explained clearly the dosage .Now to help you understand I include her a step by step pics for your referance.

First measure out the volume of water

In my case is 12 tons of water excluding the bypass filter

So for my case I can use up to 4 level teaspoon of KMno4 at 2ppm(Ucan safely use between 2-4ppm no problem)


IPB Image
goldrush
Dissove these crystals in a pail and sprinkle all over the pond surface.Make sure excellent aeration is incoporated


You get initially a dark purple coloration on administration



Check after total adminstration you should achieve a light pink coloration by sccoping out a portion against a white background tub or container(sorri I use a grey background.....experience already lah)

IPB Image

IPB Image
goldrush
Now dependent on your organic component of your system,the time taken for it to achieve total oxidation of KMno4 varies.If the load is heavy You may achieve brown discoloration within 1/2 hour.Now once spent KMno4 is no longer active,The second dosage of KMno4 can be administered.This time it definitely will take longer to achieve the brown discoloration.Ideally this pink hue should stay up to 4-6 hrs for max effect ie usually up to 3 bombing .A word of caution.That depends on your fishes wheteher they show any stress or discomfort.If not you can reverse the procedure with Na2HSO3 if KMno4 is still active and repeat bombing after another week.

IPB Image

IPB Image
goldrush
Once you are satisfied and completed the procedure proceed to reverse the discloration by adding H2o2

IPB Image

IPB Image
goldrush
Your fish will be swimming in better water condition with less organic deposits and surely exhibit better lustre,color appetite and finally growth................hehehehhehe good_very.gif

IPB Image

IPB Image
goldrush
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Wed, 03 Nov 2004 6:16 pm)
Thanks,Goldrush.
I guess different people have different methods of maintaning water quality,or have different views and theories in the first place.My friend would have never heard of KMnO4,and I hardly see any plants at Koi farms,including their rental ponds.
Just one last question,if you dont mind.
What nitrate levels,in your viewpoint is the maximum allowed for goldfish or koi?

salute.gif
*





Hi cpiw 2002

I’m not too sure at which level (ppm)that nitrates will cause some distress.Signs of high nitrate level are suspected in fish showing lethargy,congestion of fins and red mouth lesion.As nitrate formation is the last component obtained in the nitrogen cycle,it is eliminated naturally through algae and plant as food.So if those bros who swear by green water,nitrates are blessings while those who swear by crystal clear water management.nitrates are curses.For goldfish enthusiasts,a great nitrate reducer will be growing water hyacinths(for breeding,providing shades as well)
For koi ponds,some of the dealers(Nippon)incorporate vegetable filters in the form of pandan leaves cultivation.In addition cpiw 2002 ,I notice your friend’s koi to pond ratio(apart from pond:filter ratio) is remarkable,hence an additional plus point why he need not water change too often or resort to any chemical intervention.

Regards shiok.gif

Goldrush)
goldrush
Another gadget we use to keep nitrates cocn at bay would be incorporating a foam fractitioner(sth like protein skimmer in marine tanks)

I have that hidden behind the luxurious groeth of my swiss cheese plant

IPB Image
goldrush
I have to trim off the plants quite often to control their growth.If you notice the leaves are real gigantic and offers excellent camouflage and shades.Compare this foto taken today and the previous KMno4 bombing(some 2 weeks ago)Spot the growth rate?

IPB Image
CP
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Wed, 03 Nov 2004 9:37 pm)
hmmmm .... just 1 simple question

How do you administrate KMnO4 ?
*


Those home tanks can also refer to this thread,very well detailed.


http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.ph...indpost&p=19163
The Matrix
QUOTE(goldrush @ Thu, 04 Nov 2004 9:15 am)
Hi matrix

I have previously posted in KMno4 discussion and explained clearly the dosage .Now to help you understand I include her a step by step pics for your referance.

First measure out the volume of water

In my case is 12 tons of water excluding the bypass filter

So for my case I can use up to 4 level teaspoon of KMno4 at 2ppm(Ucan safely use between 2-4ppm no problem)
*


Thanks.
CP
QUOTE(goldrush @ Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:19 am)
Another gadget we use to keep nitrates cocn at bay would be incorporating a foam fractitioner(sth like protein skimmer in marine tanks)

I have that hidden behind the luxurious groeth of my swiss cheese plant
*


Is this similiar to those "Nexus Filtration system" whereby there is a turning motion with lots of small plastic granules abt half inch in size? unsure.gif
goldrush
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:26 am)
Thanks.
*



My pleasure

regards
goldrush
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:29 am)
Is this similiar to those "Nexus Filtration system" whereby there is a turning motion with lots of small plastic granules abt half inch in size? unsure.gif
*




No no no,the Nexus(marketed by Max koi) is an out and out filtration system that is compact yet boast of high effectiveness through constant motion of the filter media(max exposure/contact for bacteria housing)While the foam fractionator is actally the TurboCleaner that only extract and strip off protein scum and oil from the pond.It is easily pump fed and incorporates a venturi system within to generate the necessary bubbles to allow protein accumulation and these are drain off with an overflow set at a required drip(water loss)
CP
QUOTE(goldrush @ Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:58 am)
No no no,the Nexus(marketed by Max koi) is an out and out filtration system that is compact yet boast of high effectiveness through constant motion of the filter media(max exposure/contact for bacteria housing)While the foam fractionator is actally the TurboCleaner that only extract and strip off protein scum and oil from the pond.It is easily pump fed and incorporates a venturi system within to generate the necessary bubbles to allow protein accumulation and these are drain off with an overflow set at a required drip(water loss)
*

blush.gif

Thanks a lot,Goldrush.
I have no further questions.Too paiseh to ask already.
Notice that you make a lot of effort in your replies,like photo takings.Appreciate that,must have taken up lots of your time.

Thanks.

salute.gif salute.gif salute.gif
goldrush
Dont worry too much of asking.This is what this forum needs and is about.It is a dual communication system.Without asking then the whole forum will degrade to just one way info counter without feedback and interaction.Feel free to ask and if pictures can help to protray a better presentation,I would not hesistate to facilitate such communication.

Regards

Goldrush
peace.gif
CyberET
do you have a clear shot of your kois? how come like got goggles one?
bekko
---Posts shifted from here-------





There is nothing like low stocking density to promote good growth and good health. No amount of filtration or water change can completely counteract the effect of over-crowding. I suspect it has something to do with 1) phermones released by the fish into the water, and/or 2) the natural forage that grows in the tank/pond. If there are a lot of fish, the forage base never has a chance to develop. It's like raising cows or buffalo on pasture.

-steve
CP
Yes Steve, which is why in this forum we always preach low stock density and massive water changes.A perfect filter will rid ammonia but ending up with nitrates, and even if you manage to reduce nitrates by having plants or denitrators, you still need to rid the pheromones.

CHLeong
Hi Guys,
Anyone knows whether this pheromones can be broken down by UV system?

Thanks.

Leong
goldrush
A good write-up on pheromones can be found here.Keynote here is the emphasis on its immuno suppressive properties as well as a growth inhibitor.


http://www.sfbakc.org/Documents/Articles/hormones.html

Leong I'm not too sure of UV capabilty to deactivate such hormones but I do know only physical methods(100%water changes and not periodic dilution)as well as some chemicals(potassium permaganate,methy chloroform,both organic oxidising agent)can remove their presencee.Well the other chemicalbinding agent you can try would be activated carbon and purigen,however as the hormones can be pretty large compound total removal may not be possible.

Personally I use water change,as my main stmulant of growth with KMnO4 as an occasional oxidiser and purigen to mop out any residual organic nitrogenous compound found .My TRIPLE PRONG ATTACK!!! bruce.gif
CHLeong
Thanks Doc,
There is always this problem between having 100% and partial water change among us TVR hobbyist. We understand that 100% WC does have a stress impact on the fish whereas partial does not. Then again, this immuno suppressive properties is best managed by 100% WC, which make it very challenging for us.
Any idea how does nature handle pheromones?
bekko
QUOTE
how does nature handle pheromones
Massive dilution.

-steve
clm2206
QUOTE(goldrush @ Mon, 01 Nov 2004 9:47 pm) *

Mornin guys and dolls
I’m not too sure whether mud pond has any benefits for goldfish but it does wonders to koi for sure.It brings out the luster and color.Infact we have to artificially insert these missing minerals and elements to our man made pond through introducing clay(monmorillonite clay of smectite origin) Montmorillonite clays, depending of the chemical composition and purity, enhances water quality, replenish and enhance minerals and remove certain unwanted wastes. The uses and benefits go further than this. Montmorillonite improves the lustre and skin quality of koi as well as heightening the colour. Added to food it is claimed to aid digestion and increase the koi’s ability to assimilate the vitamins and minerals required in their diet. Because montmorillonite clay is used as a human health food as well as in the fish industry, claims by health experts make interesting reading. An average mineral analysis of Montmorillonite by health experts demonstrate it contains no less than 67 minerals, including vital trace minerals. Recently it has been recognized and utilized by the cosmetic industry and by soil experts, who value it as an exceptionally good agricultural enhancement: crops grow faster, taste better, and are more resistant to disease.
Montmorillonite contains a balance of minerals in their natural colloidal form, making it easily assimilated. The minerals present in montmorillonite enhance the production of enzymes in all living organisms.
Apart from introducing these clays to my koi pond,I have occasionally sprinke some on a weekly basis on the goldfish pond as well.But results are not substantiated and conclusive.Those clays marketed by koi dealers are usually rather ex(eg refresh/refine/Kusuri clay)I use the cheapest available.:Cat litter.Yes You read that right.The brand I’m using is CATSCAN unscented cost about $5-$6 per 5 kg only .and is readily available in supermarkets and pet shops.It contains calcium bentonite and it’s suppose to absorb the odour from cat’s undoing.
Montmorillonite also makes a wonderful, cheap face pack. Try washing your hands with it - the skin feels wonderful afterwards.
So guys time for some experiment

Regards

yes.gif yes.gif yes.gif
goldrush


Dear Goldrush,

Very interesting post. I've just set up a 1,000 litres green water pond, having 6 fishes swimming inside. It is advisable to add cat litter (unscented calcium bentonite) to green water?

Regards
goldrush
I have no experience in adding clay to green water so I'm able to comment .
CyberET
it may cause your green water to collaspe/lighten smile.gif
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