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goldrush
Good afternoon bros


First my humble apology to bro Matrix(in my thread under Ranchuria) for making a confused statement by saying ranchu does not breed true. Large proportion of my ranchu goldfish breed true to type but not true to color variation, As you would have noticed that my main highlight was on their color variation rather than on forms.In a given brood without selective breeding,one will encounter a variety of color variants even though the parents may not show any physical resemblance with respect to their color .The inheritance of color is a major headache to the hobbyist as it is far more complicated than it seems.Infact to a genectist,it would be a great challenge to be able to isolate and able to cultivate through selective breeding the choice of color each breeding programme can yield.The best we hobbyist can do is just to select the best parent of a desired color,breed them and keep our finger crossed for a desired outcome.In true sense the color variation we see are only variants of three primary colors of goldfish(black,yellow and red).The genes responsible for color may be multiple in influence as such it is far more than skin deep if colors are concerned and the study of genectics in goldfish are far too complicated for the average hobbyist to comprehend and behold.That itself make goldfish breeding an ideal research as far as genectic is concerned.A nightmare or a challenge is not for us to ponder but the field of genectics certainly is definitely too complex than what meet the eyes.As aspiring breeders,don’t be discouraged by the what seems unsurmountable task,the mere satisfaction of seeing your fish develop from eggs to adult fish and the uncanny hope that one of these that you have arduously reproduced will be crowned a grand champion one day(in a local show to start with) serves as a constant reminder of what you still lack to achieve but the process of trying to achieve that goal should not be disregarded.
As bro Geert had highlighted.It takes many years of patience and continuous anticipation for your fish to achieve credible standards but to be able to produce parents that can pass these winning characteristics onto future generations remain our greatest challenge.Far more combinations encountered than your quikpick Toto combination for that elusive the Group one prize.

Regards

goldrush



rofl.gif
goldrush
Of all the 1000 fishes achieved in the spawning,60days into their existence,the following color variation were noted in terms of percentage

75% are black and gold or total gold

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goldrush
15% were still in their juvenile blacks

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IPB Image
goldrush
The rest are total white or variation of red and whites







Below is a pictures of two contrasting ranchu

RIVALRY IN COLOR BUT SIBLING IN RELATION

IPB Image
Seacucumber
goldlust,
why all your fries dun have the body shape of their parents??
goldrush
Hi G-string

What sort of shape do you expect to see in their juvenile stage?
My culling at the moment is to except those with smooth back and angled tail.
If you have noticed I tendo except those with good top views(open forked tail and not those with closed ones)Infact compared to their parents they look nicer from the top but whether they will grow to be like their parents it remain to be seen.

Regards

Goldrush and not goldlust
yes.gif yes.gif yes.gif
Seacucumber
hmm.....ok ok....
keeping my fingers crossed for u.....


happy new year!
goldrush
Merry Xmas first G string

Due to my festive mood,I'll be releasing some of my fishes for sale strictly to RG members only.hahahaha.Will announce the details in due time.Appreciate those early birds that have pm me for my fries.My sincere apology for letting them wait this long.I need to sort them out into batches lah.due to time constraint and work I can only do within my means.Pls understand.

regards

goldrush good.gif
The Matrix
How about organise a small little gathering at your place and at the same time, you can release some of your fish also. That's gonna be fun isn't it ?
BlueBubble
How old and how big are they now?
Seacucumber
wah shiok!
we can have beer....some pretty girls to hug and see fish at the same time!!
oops....i think i got too carried away....
minus the girls and the beer.....some greentea would be nice.....

biggrin.gif
goldrush
Wahlau RG live transfer to new premise already??

Sounds good but let me think of the venue as I can show my fishes at two places but havn't decide which one to hold.Give me some time to organise.Look like going to be a real BIG gathering.RSVP hor

regard

goldrush good_very.gif beer1.gif :cheers1
The Matrix
I WANT Special Brewed, real smooth to the throat one ...


kopi-o will do ...
jowy_ham
wow, really look forward to the day shiok.gif shiok.gif, meeting "lao jiao", learn from all and maybe can still pick 1 or 2 to pack home good_very.gif
goldrush
A snick preview photos of what you will be viewing

Most likely weekend,preferably a sunday(2-6pm)
Venue yet to decide??????? Fearing bad weather may spoil viewing during this monsoon season leh.Indoor possible might be a bit crammed(depends on response that is why I need feedbck so guys hit the button for suggestion




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goldrush
Above a tricolor offspring

Below a bicolor combi(red and black)

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goldrush
red and white

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goldrush
A continuous blackpatterned

ps These features changes daily as the fish grows so don't be disappointed not being able to see the patterned fish on the actual day


regards

goldrush good_very.gif

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mountain
hmm .. goldrush .. Greet had ever mentioned to watch the fries diet/amount of food when they are very young. he posted that comment in HB's fries thread. hehe.. maybe u can pick some advice up from there abt overfeeding vs feeding the right amount ;)
goldrush
Hi ya mountain

Honestly speaking I 'm not too sure whether that applies to tv or sv or all views.This is my first experience in nurturing these sv babies as such I'm just feeding them as much as they would like to eat without compromise on the water parameters.Dont you think they resemble Rhyukin more than ranchu from the top?????Perhaps any real experienced guys out there on SV breeding would help me . peace.gif

regards

goldrush
yamato38gunkei
QUOTE(goldrush @ Wed, 01 Dec 2004 7:55 am)
Hi ya mountain

Honestly speaking I 'm not too sure whether that applies to tv or sv or all views.This is my first experience in nurturing these sv babies as such I'm just feeding them as much as they would like to eat without compromise on the water parameters.Dont you think they resemble Rhyukin more than ranchu from the top?????Perhaps any real experienced guys out there on SV breeding would help me . peace.gif

regards

goldrush
*



TV or SV ? I am sorry, but your Ranchu are completely out of shape. These are Ranchu ; not pigs !

Regards,

Geert Coppens
yamato38gunkei
QUOTE(yamato38gunkei @ Wed, 01 Dec 2004 9:24 am)
TV or SV ?  I am sorry, but your Ranchu are completely out of shape.  These are Ranchu  ; not pigs !

Regards,

Geert Coppens
*



It is only obvious that it is impossible to get a good hood on a Ranchu with a pointed head. Sorry !

Regards,

Geert Coppens
ranchuking
i concurred. Hope it wont dampened your spirit. smile.gif

rgds,
CP
QUOTE(yamato38gunkei @ Wed, 01 Dec 2004 4:36 pm)
It is only obvious that it is impossible to get a good hood on a Ranchu with a pointed head.  Sorry !

Regards,

Geert Coppens
*


I have no experience in breeding,but I though all sideview ranchus have pointed heads when young.They look normal to me.
The Matrix
QUOTE(yamato38gunkei @ Wed, 01 Dec 2004 4:36 pm)
It is only obvious that it is impossible to get a good hood on a Ranchu with a pointed head.  Sorry !

Regards,

Geert Coppens
*



yo geert, you're too direct already.
desireless
QUOTE(yamato38gunkei @ Wed, 01 Dec 2004 4:24 pm)
TV or SV ?  I am sorry, but your Ranchu are completely out of shape.  These are Ranchu  ; not pigs !

Regards,

Geert Coppens
*


These are Side View Ranchu babies.
Seacucumber
wah.....goldrush....dun be dishearten....
bo tai bo ji tio kan.......hahahaha....
CP
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Wed, 01 Dec 2004 4:59 pm)
I have no experience in breeding,but I though all sideview ranchus have pointed heads when young.They look normal to me.
*


May I add,normal to have pointed head and body shape as shown,for a side view ranchu.
yamato38gunkei
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Wed, 01 Dec 2004 10:36 am)
yo geert, you're too direct already.
*



Too direct ? Maybe ... but then I am sorry. But believe me you need a wide and long head to get a good hood. And once the body is out of shape, it is impossible to correct it again.
Anyway, I see no reason why to talk about SV and TV Ranchu. There is only one Ranchu ; the one that looks good from the top and from the side. But, this is an other discussion.
Goldrush, I did not want to offend you or disappoint you.

Regards,

Geert Coppens
mountain
salute.gif sorry goldrush and greet to bring up this pop for debate.. but hack i believe you sure have a few good ranchus fries under your belt and its cool to take this bit of advice and do yourself proud with those fries!!
goldrush
Hi every one
Don’t worry,I’m not dishearten by these comments.to start of with let me state the following personal opinions

1)I’m no breeder like Geert as such my breeding cannot be compared to his enterprise.I’m here sincerely to steer potential hobbyist to embark on breeding their goldfish,whether ranchus or otherwise and not to compete with any world class breeders .It just your own personal feat and joy to see.Sorry I’m not motivated by glory .

2)To start of with.Geert begins with oya ranchu(parents or Seed) that are reputable and time and tested to minimize failures and maximize potential output.I’m just a poor soul that has parents of acceptable grades.If Genectics are to respected,there can be only outcome.You tell me!You can never compare Lexus with a bicycle can you?

3)Now Geert is blessed in a country that boast of 4 seasons that resemble the origin of his fish as such We can never emulate that climatic control unless you are super rich enough to install climatic manipulation thrugh artificial means.So we have to modify and take lesson from our closer neighbours like Thailand that are producing ranchus that we can at least afford.and of similar climate.

4)Nutrition wise,I have to break the bank to be able to keep up with their demands of feeding.He feed his fish with JRL ,I can only feed LPPL(low grade pellet and low grade paste food ……………………….not your precious anatomical possession that I’m referring hahahahah
.So how to groom these “PIGs” to be princess.May I ask? mad.gif

5)Husbandry:I’m blessed with only 3 guppy tub and not hugh commercial FG tanks with the luxury of space and enclosure for these ranchu to roam and grow.They even have natural streams and wells to boast We only have PUB tap to toast!(yam seng)I have wrestle and do battle daily to maintain condition conducive for their survival and not GROOMing to be the next Singapore idols.

6)Ranchus seem to mean TV and nothing else.Yes I agree that is the cream /the ultimate breed that are internationally recognized(Too much Japanese influenced)In our local context and Chinese influence we have reproduce to our taste(to suit majority poor souls)lion head ranchu(lionchu)wonderfulSide views for our personal satisfaction and viewingPls just don’t confine viewing from the top only,there are more to see and explore than going TOPLESS only.Like Sushi,we have modified into Otah,sambal and many local taste to suit our local taste buds,likewise we can do similarly.Our nation people
live in HDB flats ,glass tanks maybe the only option.As thus a side view fish will be more appropriate.Incidentally we are so often mesmerized by fotos of tv being shown but no one till date wants to show its side profile.

7)Pricing :Just ask Geerts how much he is selling his Tosai(I’m sure it will be best kept secret in not revealing over the NET)For a start I’ll pricing way below that amount for newbies who are keen to embark upon ranchu keeping


There are always different levels of playing any game.From the highest plane of indulgence to the lowest plane of embarkation,so do have compassion forall.Nobody one wants to start at the lowest but sad to say how many of us can fulfil the ultimate.But it is the striving towards the ultimate that propel us for a better understanding and appreciation in any enterprise.Yes set our goal but don’t miss to appreciate the happy moments and learning while trying to get there.


One last word:In Singapore do what a Singaporean can do(given our time and space constraint)So local bros are you with me?????????? yes.gif yes.gif yes.gif

Regards,
goldrush wink.gif
GF Lover
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Wed, 01 Dec 2004 5:36 pm)
yo geert, you're too direct already.
*


I think it is better to be direct than to "pick around the bush". Knowledge is power. Knowing where we have failed gives us an opportunity to correct ourselves and improve. It may hurt for now but it will certainly give us a lifetime of pleasure later on.
The Matrix
QUOTE(goldrush @ Thu, 02 Dec 2004 11:31 am)
One last word:In Singapore do what a Singaporean can do(given our time and space constraint)So local bros are you with me?????????? yes.gif  yes.gif  yes.gif

*



Erh ... not really ... but good effort lah. peace.gif
I still waiting to see all the fishes ... tongue.gif
Allan
Please give Geert a break. Do remember English is not Geert's 1st language and in my opinion his often short but sincere and direct comments are to be read carefully. Make some translation and expand the comments yourself and often you can read between the line to understand him (as best that you can) better. Otherwise, ask him to clarify, which he always glady obliged.

Geert once said the same thing about HB's fries... and the two of us spent a good weekend pondering what he meant. Unfortunately the fries belong to HB and I don't quite get it but oldman was able to scream Eureka after a while -- he had a hunch that his feeding method was wrong resulting in fat and long bodied fries and realized after geert's advise (that he didn't take as a attack but... as an advice) if he had watched the feeding balancing body length with tummy size growth his sideview ranchu fries may have developed better. His subsequent Ryukin spawn has well balanced body development showing he understood geert well.

http://www.RafflesGold.com/forums/index.ph...881&#entry11881

So... put the forum to good use. Read all posts, especially those by respected goldfish keepers (for crying out loud) with a clear mind for enlightenment. Don't expect to log in here and be spoon-fed with skills and cry out when you don't.
BlueBubble
QUOTE(goldrush @ Thu, 02 Dec 2004 11:31 am)
6)Ranchus seem to mean TV and nothing else.Yes I agree that is the cream /the ultimate breed that are internationally recognized(Too much Japanese influenced)In our local context and Chinese influence we have reproduce to our taste(to suit majority poor souls)lion head ranchu(lionchu)wonderfulSide views for our personal satisfaction and viewingPls just don’t confine viewing from the top only,there are more to see and explore than going TOPLESS only.Like Sushi,we have modified into Otah,sambal and many local taste to suit our local taste buds,likewise we can do similarly.Our  nation people
live in HDB flats ,glass tanks maybe the only option.As thus a side view fish will be more appropriate.Incidentally we are so often mesmerized by fotos of tv being shown but no one till date wants to show its side profile.

Regards,
goldrush wink.gif
*



maybe your biggest mistake is to show TV photo of side view fish??
GF Lover
Maybe the warm climate makes the goldfish eats more. That is why have a big tummy. The other reason could me the food they eat. Too much fats and carbohydrates.
CyberET
yalor, i eat too much fats and carbohydrates, i'm growing sideways now..
The Matrix
QUOTE(CyberET @ Thu, 02 Dec 2004 2:33 pm)
yalor, i eat too much fats and carbohydrates, i'm growing sideways now..
*



sign of a successful man ... when getting married ..
mountain
QUOTE(CyberET @ Thu, 02 Dec 2004 2:33 pm)
yalor, i eat too much fats and carbohydrates, i'm growing sideways now..
*



more interested about your fishes then yur sideprofiles lei .. hehe..
have not seen much about yur fish lei .. unsure.gif
CyberET
har? i now keeping dropsy fishes le..
goldrush
Dear bro Allan

You seems to miss my point and other bros who are more into SV.To Geert the only ranchu that exist are onlyTV and nothing else.In our eastern part of this world,the Chinese and the thai has inter bred ranchus with lionhead to form lionchu.In Singapore there is even a Singachu to be proud of.Because his opinion may be confine to raising top views,we cannot blindly accept that such steps of raising also apply to other sub breed as each has evolve its own appreciation standards.It took many years of debate to accept Chinese medicine concept (like acupuncture)to be recognized as an adjuvant therapy and complementary treatment to our western orientated medical therapy as such we must not just be stifled into believing there are no other means of methods except yours.We should be opened to all concepts and receive it with open heart and open mind.
.There are many roads to enlightenment.,so too is the art of keeping fish.


Bro

goldrush
yamato38gunkei
QUOTE(goldrush @ Thu, 02 Dec 2004 4:31 am)
Hi every one
Don’t worry,I’m not dishearten by these comments.to start of with let me state the following personal opinions

1)I’m no breeder like Geert as such my breeding cannot be compared to his enterprise.I’m here sincerely to steer potential hobbyist to embark on breeding their goldfish,whether ranchus or otherwise and not to compete with any world class breeders .It just your own personal feat and joy to see.Sorry I’m not motivated by glory .

2)To start of with.Geert begins with oya ranchu(parents or Seed) that are reputable and time and tested to minimize failures and maximize potential output.I’m just a poor soul that has parents of acceptable grades.If Genectics are to respected,there can be only outcome.You tell me!You can never compare Lexus with a bicycle can you?

3)Now Geert is blessed in a country that boast of 4 seasons that resemble the origin of his fish as such We can never emulate that climatic control unless you are super rich enough to install climatic manipulation thrugh artificial means.So we have to modify and take lesson from our closer neighbours like Thailand that are producing ranchus that we can at least afford.and of similar climate.

4)Nutrition wise,I have to break the bank to be able to keep up with their demands of feeding.He feed his fish with JRL ,I can only feed LPPL(low grade pellet and low grade paste food ……………………….not your precious anatomical possession that I’m referring hahahahah
.So how to groom these  “PIGs” to be princess.May I ask? mad.gif

5)Husbandry:I’m blessed with only 3 guppy tub and not  hugh commercial FG tanks with the luxury of space and enclosure for these ranchu to roam and grow.They even have natural streams and wells to boast We only have PUB tap to toast!(yam seng)I have  wrestle and do battle daily to maintain condition conducive for their survival and not GROOMing to be the next Singapore idols.

6)Ranchus seem to mean TV and nothing else.Yes I agree that is the cream /the ultimate breed that are internationally recognized(Too much Japanese influenced)In our local context and Chinese influence we have reproduce to our taste(to suit majority poor souls)lion head ranchu(lionchu)wonderfulSide views for our personal satisfaction and viewingPls just don’t confine viewing from the top only,there are more to see and explore than going TOPLESS only.Like Sushi,we have modified into Otah,sambal and many local taste to suit our local taste buds,likewise we can do similarly.Our  nation people
live in HDB flats ,glass tanks maybe the only option.As thus a side view fish will be more appropriate.Incidentally we are so often mesmerized by fotos of tv being shown but no one till date wants to show its side profile.

7)Pricing :Just ask Geerts how much he is selling his Tosai(I’m sure it will be best kept secret in not revealing over the NET)For a start I’ll pricing way below that amount for newbies who are keen to embark upon ranchu keeping
There are always different levels of playing any game.From the highest plane of indulgence to the lowest plane of embarkation,so do have compassion forall.Nobody one wants to start at the lowest but sad to say how many of us can fulfil the ultimate.But it is  the striving towards the ultimate that propel us for a better understanding and appreciation in any enterprise.Yes  set our goal but don’t miss to appreciate  the happy moments and learning while trying to get there.
One last word:In Singapore do what a Singaporean can do(given our time and space constraint)So local bros are you with me?????????? yes.gif  yes.gif  yes.gif

Regards,
goldrush wink.gif
*



Dear Goldrush,

I am happy that you are not disheartened. But I think you are a little angry with me...
Goldrush, I wrote this so direct because I hoped it would open discussion. I think it worked. I want to react on a few things you wrote in your message.

1) It is not true that you need a big fishhouse, many ponds, many spawnings, expensive food, four seasons etc. to correct the body shape and the shape of the head of your Ranchu. YOU ONLY NEED TO FEED THEM LESS. This is easy and cheap I think. And maybe when you feed them less, you can feed JRL instead. Only this ... and better results.

2) It is not honest of you to say that my Ranchu are expensive. They are very VALUABLE which is a very big difference. I do not sell Ranchu. I breed my Ranchu as a hobby, just like you. Ask the many brothers of RG who sent me PM to buy my Ranchu. I only PRESENT Ranchu to good friends.

3) I do agree that for me it is TV Ranchu and nothing else. TV Ranchu is the Ranchu of the hobbyist. SV Ranchu are made by commercial breeders in order to obtain a larger number of fish they can sell. Of course, there is nothing wrong with that.

4) When I started breeding goldfish, there was nobody who could advise me because no one bred goldfish in my country. There was no Internet. I would have been very happy with a direct and correct advice of someone who had some more experience !

Today, I have very good friends in Japan who helped me and advised me. You should have heard their comments at the beginning. But this is the only way to learn. When you do not accept criticism, you will never be able to upgrade your skill.

Regards,


Geert Coppens
Allan
QUOTE(goldrush @ Thu, 02 Dec 2004 3:28 pm)
Dear bro Allan

You seems to miss my point and other bros who are more into SV.To Geert the only ranchu ...
*


Yo goldrush

Please let me clarify my points. I have made inference from Geert's comment that he is refering to
fries only and not baby ranchus. What HB told me after he looked into Geert's comment is that fries should not be fat at this early stages of development. When we feed too much and not watch their diet, a direct result is excessively long peduncle (like tapoles with fins.) When we keep the size of the tummy in check, the fries' overall growth will be balance, giving them a proper body structure to grow into when they become babies.

In this light, it really doesn't matter if the fry is a top or side view variety -- so long as it is a fry (ie, before it becomes a baby ranchu), feeding too much will ruin its future development.
The Matrix
QUOTE(yamato38gunkei @ Thu, 02 Dec 2004 4:39 pm)
Today, I have very good friends in Japan who helped me and advised me.  You should have heard their comments at the beginning.  But this is the only way to learn.  When you do not accept criticism, you will never be able to upgrade your skill.

Regards,
Geert Coppens
*



Geert, in asia context, a lot of people are unable to accept criticism. Worst after spending lots of money trying to breed, the end result is a "no good" from many others. It's hard to swollow if one unable to accept that sort of harsh comment.
GF Lover
We all got to start somewhere. Good effort Goldrush. Maybe some day people will be rushing for your ranchus
Seacucumber
well, from my humble point of view....
Geert is very sincere and open in opening up on breeding tips and upbringing of fries....
he is generous to give advise with his expertise and experience from years of breeding....

although he is direct in Goldrush's situation, i feel tat its a good thing...
this is wat a true discussion forum should be....
goldrush
Dear Geert

I’m sorry if you think I’m angry. Criticism in a constructive way helps a person to learn. Criticism in a destructive manner dampens one’s enthusiasm .I do not react but I’ll response. I do not retaliate for I will only reciprocate .Anger will not breed any result. Thank you for your advice .I hope it is not too late to rectify my damage .I’m no breeder to begin with as such I’ve to turn to this forum for constructive advice and boy am I’ not disappointed. If you have noticed that I ‘ ve attempt to share with all RG members the whole process of my first breeding programme chronologically presented from day one from several threads with total transparency with regards to spawning ,water management ,food preparation and update on their progress fornightly till this date.Throughout I ve learned from other members the demise of their fries in their early stages due to poor water management and giving pathogenic live food.I learn to avoid such consequences.Now I must learn to fine tune their diet to suit their growth.to avoid being labelled pigs.Those that are considered pigs,I hope will be become famous pigs like Porky(merry melodies)Miss Piggy(Sesame Streets)Babe or even three little pigs(Han Christen Anderson)Thank you again for your precious feedback

Regards

goldrush
goldrush
QUOTE(goldfish Lover @ Thu, 02 Dec 2004 4:54 pm)
We all got to start somewhere. Good effort Goldrush. Maybe some day people will be rushing for your ranchus
*



Thxs for your encouragement.Sorry Ive no commercial interest in my ranchu keeping.But from what Ive presented,I hope RG members will learn to avoid the unecessary consequences in breeding any types of goldfish.You can see the positive feedback and the negative ones are to be accepted with grace .With these I hope will encourage more to breed their own fish without suffering from unnecessary failures'Thxs you

From goldlust to goldrush and finally golddust.....................
goldrush
QUOTE(Allan @ Thu, 02 Dec 2004 4:46 pm)
Yo goldrush

Please let me clarify my points.  I have made inference from Geert's comment that he is refering to
fries only and not baby ranchus.  What HB told me after he looked into Geert's comment is that fries should not be fat at this early stages of development.  When we feed too much and not watch their diet, a direct result is excessively long peduncle (like tapoles with fins.)  When we keep the size of the tummy in check, the fries' overall growth will be balance, giving them a proper body structure to grow into when they become babies.

In this light, it really doesn't matter if the fry is a top or side view variety -- so long as it is a fry (ie, before it becomes a baby ranchu), feeding too much will ruin its future development.
*







Point taken Allan

but when can I classify a fry a baby ranchu(at what stage?)

regards

goldrush
GF Lover
QUOTE(goldrush @ Thu, 02 Dec 2004 8:36 pm)
Thxs for your encouragement.Sorry Ive no commercial interest in my ranchu keeping.But from what Ive presented,I hope RG members will learn to avoid the unecessary consequences in breeding any types of goldfish.You can see the positive feedback and the negative ones are to be accepted with grace .With these I hope will encourage more to breed their own fish without suffering from unnecessary failures'Thxs you

From goldlust to goldrush and finally golddust.....................
*


It is very hard to say. I have made a career out of my hobby (nothing to do with goldfish).
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