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Allan
Boring Monday.... just read a post where a thai bred Tosakin (unknown size) costs $150.

Then lurk around another site's trading forum and noticed people seem to pay quite a bit for their goldfish, especially Ranchu.

So I'm curious to know how much did you pay for your most expensive goldfish.

My most expendive goldfish, a sideview ranchu, cost me $60 before discount and it's one in the academy. tongue.gif.
peter porker
I feel that prices today cannot be compared to prices a year ago. A year ago, I paid $55 for a SV fish which after one year of 'researching' the market, would have fetched at least $100 now. Its a demand supply situation. The goldfish market, in particular the ranchu market, is picking up again and LFS are pricing their fish accordingly.

A few months ago, I said in AF that I would not pay more than $60 for a fish but egstring warned me not to say too early and true enough, my most ex fish to date cost me exactly 100 bucks.
The Matrix
QUOTE(peter porker @ Mon, 06 Dec 2004 2:10 pm)
I feel that prices today cannot be compared to prices a year ago. A year ago, I paid $55 for a SV fish which after one year of 'researching' the market, would have fetched at least $100 now. Its a demand supply situation. The goldfish market, in particular the ranchu market, is picking up again and LFS are pricing their fish accordingly.

A few months ago, I said in AF that I would not pay more than $60 for a fish but egstring warned me not to say too early and true enough, my most ex fish to date cost me exactly 100 bucks.
*



Depends hor. Not every types of goldfish with such high appreciation value. Some of the varieties are still low in cost yet in strong demand in various part of the world.

kekeke dun say so early hor, pretty soon you will upgrade even higher pricing fish.

Allan, you din state TV or SV for Ranchu, so hor, those people who love top view will exceed the highest range u set, a min of S$1500 to a >10K will be good for TV fish.
GF Lover
I noticed that Thai SVR are getting more and more expensive. I som instance even more expensive than Thai TVR.
desireless
QUOTE(goldfish Lover @ Mon, 06 Dec 2004 2:31 pm)
I noticed that Thai SVR are getting more and more expensive. I som instance even more expensive than Thai TVR.
*


That's the problem with a certain type of commodity getting too popular and the suppliers/sellers jetting up the price. A shift in demand and supply curve shift the price -- in simple terms "spoiling the market".

Everyone started diving into ranchu about a year ago. Some uninformed LFS owners still don't know the difference between TVR and SVR. Then they wonder why some LFS (selling TVR) can sell their ranchu at such premium price, and they start scaling up price of their SVR. They think they are smart.... "That other LFS (the TVR shop) sell at $200 for a baby fish, I sell only $50 for this 4-incher! Cheap hor? biggrin.gif" Soon every other LFS uncles followed. 4 inchers used to be $20 back then, is now $50.

"Ranchu good to sell... cost price $10 nia... but can sell $50! good_very.gif"

Then the main suppliers (from THAT country) drool at the hugh increase in demand in SG. May it be due to their own decreasing stock and hence more pricey, or they purposely raise cost to catch the trend before it dies, they join in the fun by jetting up cost. Cost goes up, price of course go higher up. The $50 ranchu then can be priced at $80 or $100.

Because of this trend, again the SG LFS had to come up with better business strategy. As this is the China-fish season now, the local LFS will now have a cheaper source. But they sold before a Thai ranchu at say $100, so although the chinese fish is a lot cheaper, won't the profit margin be higher if they sell at the thai-fish price? He's probably thinking "Wah I so smart... I can't even differentiate between Thai and Chinese fish, so how many customers actually can?" The market being already spoilt by Thai ranchus, the chinese ranchus are no longer "cheapo" ranchus like their cousins one, two yrs ago.

So we have been led by the nose by our very own demand for ranchus. The LFS owners just play along. The supplier seeing the demand in SG is so hugh, will soon hop in the wagon too.

So how to solve this problem? Stop buying fish? Let the market cool down? This would require a mass "protest to buy" but is this possible in Singapore? So just sit back and wait to be slaughtered willingly lor...
Jos Nana
If you are talking about true high quality stuff normally in small quatity, there is no price cap. 6" Oranda Aquarama grand champion quality and line can sell at S$ 800.00 or more. And they are sold in a snap.

If you are talking about fishes coming in batches. More often as much as 80% are laylong off or died. The only sellable ones are 10 to 20%. If you are spotted buying a fish from a LFS which has new arrivals, the public will say : Aiya good one let RafflesGold members buy liao. Nothing good left !

In this market, quality of fish decide the market, not quantity.
peter porker
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Mon, 06 Dec 2004 2:21 pm)
Depends hor. Not every types of goldfish with such high appreciation value. Some of the varieties are still low in cost yet in strong demand in various part of the world.

kekeke dun say so early hor, pretty soon you will upgrade even higher pricing fish.

Allan, you din state TV or SV for Ranchu, so hor, those people who love top view will exceed the highest range u set, a min of S$1500 to a >10K will be good for TV fish.
*




that is true..
The Matrix
QUOTE(desireless @ Mon, 06 Dec 2004 3:53 pm)
That's the problem with a certain type of commodity getting too popular and the suppliers/sellers jetting up the price. A shift in demand and supply curve shift the price -- in simple terms "spoiling the market".
*



At least 1 thing very sure, no uncles, aunties becos of feng shui or kenna 4D from buying ranchu !! hahahahaha. Not easy to see numbers from those red patches leh. Lucky heng heng, goldfish not as easy to breed or keep as louhan. If not Aro keeper cannot find feeder goldfish liao. Every fries also japan bloodline one u know.

No choice one lah. It's WW demand in ranchu. With so many people buying, then more fun mah. Look at those competition, 50% of the entries are ranchu. Winning in such race means deep pocket to get the best of the best of the best (will smith said that). Actually last year Aquarama 40% are ryukins !!! Becos last year one hell of ryukin imports.

I buy butterfly better, noone disturb and cheap cheap few bucks only. Also top view mah ... shiok
CP
First I started with $5 ranchus.When see $20 ones tell myself, 'Must be SIOW to pay 20 bucks for a fish.'
One day finally buy a $20 ranchu.Put in tank and found out that every day look at the $20 ranchu ignoring the rest.So how?All other $5 ones give friends,and in no time the tank full of $20 dollar ranchus.
The cycle continues from 20 to 50,then 80, then 200.
So I told myself,200 is the MAX I will pay for a ranchu.
And today? Got 250,280.... and it seems that the cycle is not stopping either.
And it is sideview ranchus I am talking about.

KNN, leow see peh choi lui!

Now I am in the process of ridding the 200 ones and spend my time (no hurry) looking for even more tokkong ones.You cannot just walk into LFS to buy, need contacts to get for you.
Better to have two 1k showgrades than ten 200 ones.

I hope this time the cycle ends....... sad.gif

p/s - The most satisfaction one can get is to spot a cheap one,then groom into one where people say - Wah lau - this fish must have cost you $---!!And so far I have only had one!
white horse T1
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Mon, 06 Dec 2004 6:41 pm)
Now I am in the process of ridding the 200 ones and spend my time (no hurry) looking for even more tokkong ones.You cannot just walk into LFS to buy, need contacts to get for you.
Better to have two 1k showgrades than ten 200 ones.

I hope this time the cycle ends....... sad.gif

p/s - The most satisfaction one can get is to spot a cheap one,then groom into one where people say - Wah lau - this fish must have cost you $---!!And so far I have only had one!
*



on the contrary, i ve own before those tt cost me $120. now i no longer "lust" after those with AAA grade or show grade and high price tag. only go for ordinary ones that hopefully will be a gem one day.
Allan
Wow... I wasn't expecting such active participation in the poll, and the tremendous amount of insights you guys are sharing. Good job!

Matrix, I didn't have a specific variety of goldfish in mind but I knew ranchu will be the most popular. In this light, I have actually put in the more than $500 ranges for top-view ranchus, and to me the above $1,000 choice is for Japanese ranchu, which I didn't expect many to own. However, as it is now, two members did spend more then one grand for a goldfish. Too bad we don't know what kind of goldfish those two are. They may be decent Japanese Ranchus.... from true blue Japanese breeders or just seriously over-prized side view ranchu from somewhere over the rainbow. Ha ha.

In any case, I wonder how an arowana keeper would react when he read us complaining about our pet costing in the hundreds when his pet, bred in sungei tengah, can easily costs a five figures sum!
Seacucumber
for myself, i wont let the price determine how good the fish is....
in my case, at this moment, $120 is the most i paid for a ranchu.....

p.s.I am blessed with super bargaining power and black magic biggrin.gif
domho7
QUOTE(g-string @ Mon, 06 Dec 2004 9:55 pm)
for myself, i wont let the price determine how good the fish is....
in my case, at this moment, $120 is the most i paid for a ranchu.....

p.s.I am blessed with super bargaining power and black magic biggrin.gif
*



Wah bro u richie rich boy, S$120 can tahan me lunch for 3weeks ah!!! good_very.gif
Seacucumber
QUOTE(domho7 @ Mon, 06 Dec 2004 10:10 pm)
Wah bro u richie rich boy, S$120 can tahan me lunch for 3weeks ah!!! good_very.gif
*




wah piang....u read from the beginning or the thread, people are paying $200 +++ liao wor....
GF Lover
Just like the price of eggs. When the "Bird flu" strikes, local eggs suddenly increase 5 times. Surely cost ramain the same. Why local farmer increase price by so much. In actual fact the cosrt of feed for the chicken actually drop because leser chichen to feed. Demand for feed drop. Why still increase the eggs price?

That is why even Australian eggs are more expensive than local, I still buys them now.
CP
QUOTE(Allan @ Mon, 06 Dec 2004 8:42 pm)

In any case, I wonder how an arowana keeper would react when he read us complaining about our pet costing in the hundreds when his pet, bred in sungei tengah, can easily costs a five figures sum!
*


I think I have spent more than what most arowana keepers paid for their fish.This is assuming that they purchase one young fish and stick with it.
You see,my 7 foot tank can stock just 1 arowana,but in my case 9 goldfishes.
More importantly,its not the number thats lightening my wallet,its the 'continuos upgrading' part that wastes money.
KNN wife buys $10 kim bak lor from market for dinner sometimes I kow peh kow boo.....
The Matrix
< $30 x 3 = 90
$51 - $70 x 2 = 102 - 140
$71 - $90 x 2 = 142 - 180
$151 - $180 x 2 = 302 - 360
$181 - $200 x 1 = 181 - 200
$201 - $300 x 1 = 201 - 300
$501 - $1,000 x 1 = 501 - 1000
> $1,000 x 2 = you must be crazy !

Allan, isn't it fun to really know how crazy the bunch of serious keepers we are ? Of course, we cannot use $ value to judge the level of a keeper. But it does show that keepers are really looking hard and improving in fish selection.

Of the voted so far, the 14 most expensive fish owns by 14 voters already cost in range of 3500 - 4270 or more .... on average, a fish of 250 - 300 bucks or more. With 10 voters below the average range, and 7 below the $100 mark, we still see a skewed curve towards the lower range than people aiming for higher priced fish.

Interesting statistics to study ... here got so many registered users, com'on ... dun feel paisey, vote and let the lfs know that we dun buy expensive fish ! hahahaha ...

actually got another reason to it, probably our income spend to maintain this hobby is a limiting factor. Other than wives problem. hahahaha
peter porker
QUOTE(goldfish Lover @ Mon, 06 Dec 2004 10:22 pm)
Just like the price of eggs. When the "Bird flu" strikes, local eggs suddenly increase 5 times. Surely cost ramain the same. Why local farmer increase price by so much. In actual fact the cosrt of feed for the chicken actually drop because leser chichen to feed. Demand for feed drop. Why still increase the eggs price?

That is why even Australian eggs are more expensive than local, I still buys them now.
*




maciam wrong analogy here leh...egg prices went north because of the shortage in supply.

ranchu price went north because of demand but there is more than sufficient supply to meet this demand. The question at the end of the day is whether you want to pay or not only.

In retrospective, in man's quest for beauty and perfection, what is money? Thus you get the spoil market syndrome, and thus prices went up.
The Matrix
QUOTE(peter porker @ Mon, 06 Dec 2004 11:38 pm)
maciam wrong analogy here leh...egg prices went north because of the shortage in supply.

ranchu price went north because of demand but there is more than sufficient supply to meet this demand. The question at the end of the day is whether you want to pay or not only.

In retrospective, in man's quest for beauty and perfection, what is money? Thus you get the spoil market syndrome, and thus prices went up.
*



supply is always low, never high before leh. unless a lot more breeder in china convert their AngMoKio size farm to breed thai fish lah.
nobnoba
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Mon, 06 Dec 2004 5:41 pm)
First I started with $5 ranchus.When see $20 ones tell myself, 'Must be  SIOW to pay 20 bucks for a fish.'
One day finally buy a $20 ranchu.Put in tank and found out that every day look at the $20 ranchu ignoring the rest.So how?All other $5 ones give friends,and in no time the tank full of $20 dollar ranchus.
The cycle continues  from 20 to 50,then 80, then 200.
So I told myself,200 is the MAX I will pay for a ranchu.
And today? Got 250,280.... and it seems that the cycle is not stopping either.
And it is sideview ranchus I am talking about.

KNN, leow see peh choi lui!

Now I am in the process of ridding the 200 ones and spend my time (no hurry) looking for even more tokkong ones.You cannot just walk into LFS to buy, need contacts to get for you.
Better to have two 1k showgrades than ten 200 ones.

I hope this time the cycle ends....... sad.gif

p/s - The most satisfaction one can get is to spot a cheap one,then groom into one where people say - Wah lau - this fish must have cost you $---!!And so far I have only had one!
*



U are preaching to the choir!! laugh.gif
desireless
OK... in view that there's a place selling ranchu at $3288, and high grade Jap TVR can cost few K, we added more choices now...

The 2 bros who voted "> $1,000" previously can PM me or Allan if you want to change your votes.

More votes leh!! 19 people participated so far nia...
C'mon... we have 540 registered members leh hi.gif
Come out and play leh? cooldude.gif

"投票是神圣的...
投票是秘密的...
请大家踊跃投票!"
GF Lover
QUOTE(peter porker @ Mon, 06 Dec 2004 11:38 pm)
maciam wrong analogy here leh...egg prices went north because of the shortage in supply.

ranchu price went north because of demand but there is more than sufficient supply to meet this demand. The question at the end of the day is whether you want to pay or not only.

In retrospective, in man's quest for beauty and perfection, what is money? Thus you get the spoil market syndrome, and thus prices went up.
*

I think is the same. Take for example you want to drink sweet coffee. You can increase the sugar in your coffee or you can reduce the coffee powder and water.

Coming back to the egg. Let us assume that there is an eggs shortage and people are also afraid to eat eggs because of some other reasons. This may even result in a fall of egg prices even though there is an egg shortage.

The issue here is that egg producers in Singapore are profiteering.

Do you not think the same is happening to ranchu now particularly to SVR from Thailand.

I think the Chinese produced SVR are getting better and I believe that it is because nobody is actively sourcing from China. I have seen fantastically looking ranchu in HK. The owner told me that it wa produced in Fuchow (not sure if the spelling is correct or know the location of the place).
Allan
QUOTE(desireless @ Tue, 07 Dec 2004 1:34 am)
More votes leh!! 19 people participated so far nia...
C'mon... we have 540 registered members leh hi.gif
Come out and play leh?  cooldude.gif

"投票是神圣的...
投票是秘密的...
请大家踊跃投票!"
*


凍選!凍選!

I sometimes wonder why few people participate in Polls.

There are lurkers in the forum, shy to post for one reason or another... but c'mon lurkers, casting vote will not reveal your identity or require you to sell your soul. At the very least, make a contribution to the forum by voting!

Then there are those who want to view the result first before deciding to vote... just in case their choice is not the popular vote. Needless to say once you, in a sense cheated, you null your priviledge to cast.

VOTE LAH!

凍選! 凍選!
CP
QUOTE(nobnoba @ Tue, 07 Dec 2004 12:25 am)
U are preaching to the choir!!  laugh.gif
*


Glad to know I'm not alone. tongue.gif
jhansolo
QUOTE(goldfish Lover @ Tue, 07 Dec 2004 4:56 am)

The issue here is that egg producers in Singapore are profiteering.

*



I hope not to go too off-topic ... let me bring it back. "profiteering" is a harsh word, but true. If the producers, transport, importers, middle-man use to make 10% but with the increase in price ... it might still be 10% with a loading, because they have to make special shipment of this item.

So when louhan is hot in demand, aro seller who used to make 70% from they sale of aro will convert to louhan and demand the same profit margin, but louhan being lower in cost compared to aro to get what they used to enjoy ... they load it with a premium. Am I making sense ...

Just watch the market will get hotter as CNY is coming round the corner and you will get a lot more newbie who will just throw their money.
t88
Hi all, I am new to this hobby like most of the newbies.

One thing I notice is that most of us started this hobby buying cheap cheap goldfish then end up buying more ex ones until wallet surrender. Very few do otherwise.

I started with $2 goldfish and now always look at those with three or four digit price tags and drool..... this hobby is more ex than arowanas I used to keep.

tongue.gif
peter porker
QUOTE(t88 @ Tue, 07 Dec 2004 11:35 am)
Hi all, I am new to this hobby like most of the newbies.

One thing I notice is that most of us started this hobby buying cheap cheap goldfish then end up buying more ex ones until wallet surrender. Very few do otherwise.

I started with $2 goldfish and now always look at those with three or four digit price tags and drool..... this hobby is more ex than arowanas I used to keep.

tongue.gif
*



its the 7 deadly sins lah....greed/envy. heh heh..
RBT
QUOTE(t88 @ Tue, 07 Dec 2004 11:35 am)
Hi all, I am new to this hobby like most of the newbies.

One thing I notice is that most of us started this hobby buying cheap cheap goldfish then end up buying more ex ones until wallet surrender. Very few do otherwise.

I started with $2 goldfish and now always look at those with three or four digit price tags and drool..... this hobby is more ex than arowanas I used to keep.

tongue.gif
*




hehe...welcome to the 'club'. good_very.gif tongue.gif
t88
When I was small my mum would nag for keeping fishes. Now it's home minister's turn...good thing I do not have a daughter to do that when I am old. tongue.gif
The Matrix
QUOTE(t88 @ Tue, 07 Dec 2004 2:57 pm)
When I was small my mum would nag for keeping fishes. Now it's home minister's turn...good thing I do not have a daughter to do that when I am old.  tongue.gif
*



teach your daughter to understand fish and love it. Then choose her a husband from RG that really love fish. hahahaha ... your old age will be very happy doing "fishy" things with son-in-law. hahahahahaha

Wah ... I see someone voted $3000 !!!!
yamato38gunkei
QUOTE(Allan @ Tue, 07 Dec 2004 2:14 am)
凍選!凍選!

I sometimes wonder why few people participate in Polls.

There are lurkers in the forum, shy to post for one reason or another... but c'mon lurkers, casting  vote will not reveal your identity or require you to sell your soul.  At the very least, make a contribution to the forum by voting!

Then there are those who want to view the result first before deciding to vote... just in case their choice is not the popular vote.  Needless to say once you, in a sense cheated, you null your priviledge to cast.

VOTE LAH!

凍選! 凍選!
*



I can not vote. Under the poll there is mentioned : "You have already voted in this poll". But, I haven't ! blush.gif
Maybe many members have this problem ?

Regards,

Geert Coppens
top_view_ranchu
QUOTE(yamato38gunkei @ Tue, 07 Dec 2004 9:52 pm)
I can not vote.  Under the poll there is mentioned : "You have already voted in this poll".  But, I haven't !  blush.gif
Maybe many members have this problem ?

Regards,

Geert Coppens
*



Happened to me once.
I think its because you viewed the result before vote.

Cheers!
Allan
QUOTE(top_view_ranchu @ Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:14 am)

Happened to me once.
I think its because you viewed the result before vote.

Cheers!
*


That's right.

There were two buttons for you to click, "Vote" and "View Results (null vote)". The 1st is self-explanatory but many people choose the second button to read the result of the poll first before they cast their own vote Unfortunately, as the bracketed text say, you forfeit your privilege to vote since after viewing the result.

I have changed the text to make it clearer. Meanwhile once you have forfeited your privilege, there's nothing I can do. smile.gif

Meanwhile you might want to participated in previous polls:

http://www.RafflesGold.com/forums/index.php?act=globalpoll
yamato38gunkei
QUOTE(Allan @ Wed, 08 Dec 2004 2:24 am)
That's right.

There were two buttons for you to click, "Vote" and "View Results (null vote)".  The 1st is self-explanatory but many people choose the second button to read the result of the poll first before they cast their own vote  Unfortunately, as the bracketed text say, you forfeit your privilege to vote since after viewing the result.

I have changed the text to make it clearer.  Meanwhile once you have forfeited your privilege, there's nothing I can do.  smile.gif

Meanwhile you might want to participated in previous polls:

http://www.RafflesGold.com/forums/index.php?act=globalpoll
*



Do not worry ! I do not worry either wink.gif ! But it may be the reason why many other members do not vote.

Regards,

Geert Coppens
The Matrix
Interesting poll ... 7% of the population represented in the poll. Not a good respresentation yet, but pretty close.

A split of 50/50 right at $90.
3 in 4 will spend below $300.
1 in 4 spend above $300 for a piece.
Almost a quarter of 22.5% with fish less than $30 value.
And only 10% took the big bite of $500 and above.
Maniacholic
Mines are mostly a bit flawed hybrid sent to me from my cousin, or a self bred one peace.gif
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