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Full Version: What Causes goldfish Color To Fade From Red To White?
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Samuelphan
Hi Guys,

Just wondering if there is any external factor that can cause a grown-up goldfish to
sudeenly start fading from a almost totally red fish to possibly a total white fish?

Is it genetic or could be due to the food being fed? etc

Reason for asking if bacuse I have a Nisai TVR that one day decided to start fading. Now aboyt 80% of the previous red areas have faded to show the unlying white ... now the fish looks very "dirty" with blurry red patches and unclean white areas.

Please advise ...

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan
CyberET
bad water? unsure.gif
Samuelphan
Cant be ... the fishes are kept in 5 ft tank and only 4 pcs and with weekly water change. hmm.gif

QUOTE(CyberET @ Fri, 04 Feb 2005 9:09 am)
bad water? unsure.gif
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void
QUOTE(Samuelphan @ Fri, 04 Feb 2005 8:48 am)
Cant be ... the fishes are kept in 5 ft tank and only 4 pcs and with weekly water change.  hmm.gif
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Not enuff sunlight maybe...
Samuelphan
Hmmm ... is that is problem? I mean ... without sunlight?

The fish is fast fading ... just like a BBR shedding its baby color .... the fish is shedding its red very fast. Think in a matter of the next few days ... the fish body might turn total white. cry.gif


QUOTE(void @ Fri, 04 Feb 2005 10:34 am)
Not enuff sunlight maybe...
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mountain
QUOTE(Samuelphan @ Fri, 04 Feb 2005 11:43 am)
Hmmm ... is that is problem? I mean ... without sunlight?

The fish is fast fading ... just like a BBR shedding its baby color .... the fish is shedding its red very fast. Think in a matter of the next few days ... the fish body might turn total white.  cry.gif
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hope it fade super fast to become a white fish .. then send in for competition .. whoohoo ..


sorry.. talk to much cow & bull ..

my guess is the genes .. again .. tats an easy excuse but after discounting water conditions and skills.. wat else but genes.. how about considering medication.. have you given any form of medication / or setreiod enhancer to the fish previously? this could be something to consider..
Samuelphan
That could be one possibility ... maybe soem form of enhancer was previously fed to the fish.

Anyway ... hope the fading process will give rise to a totally new look and hope it looks nice ;)

QUOTE(mountain @ Fri, 04 Feb 2005 11:47 am)
hope it fade super fast to become a white fish .. then send in for competition .. whoohoo ..
sorry.. talk to much cow & bull ..

my guess is the genes .. again .. tats an easy excuse but after discounting water conditions and skills.. wat else but genes.. how about considering medication.. have you given any form of medication / or setreiod enhancer to the fish previously? this could be something to consider..
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mountain
.. post and let me see lei .. biggrin.gif

wish good old folks like you keep the pictorial postings coming. there are old threads out there where the poster keeps updating their fish picture and health .. cry.gif i miss them..
Samuelphan
Me no old folks here ... just a beginner in GFs. But will definitely find time over the weekend to show how the fish looks like now. sad.gif

QUOTE(mountain @ Fri, 04 Feb 2005 1:19 pm)
.. post and let me see lei .. biggrin.gif

wish good old folks like you keep the pictorial postings coming. there are old threads out there where the poster keeps updating their fish picture and health ..  cry.gif i miss them..
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Samuelphan
Previous pic of the now faded ranchu and his "siblings" ... the faded pcs is the one on bottom left (pointing upwards)

IPB Image
GF Lover
Top picture taken on 3rd Feb 2005 and bottom picture taken on 17th Dec 2004. Looks very nice when it becomes fully white. Can fetch more when fully white. Both Fukami bought from Dreamkoi sometime in mid 2004.

IPB Image
Samuelphan
Incidentally ... mine also Fukami fishes. ohmy.gif
But not from DreamKoi.

Yours is already a 80% white when bought ... but mine is like 90% red ... now the fish is like a bruised fish ... look darn ugly with the blotches of red ... will post pic for record purpose. mad.gif

QUOTE(goldfish Lover @ Fri, 04 Feb 2005 4:20 pm)
Top picture taken on 3rd Feb 2005 and bottom picture taken on 17th Dec 2004. Looks very nice when it becomes fully white. Can fetch more when fully white. Both Fukami bought from Dreamkoi sometime in mid 2004.
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GF Lover
QUOTE(Samuelphan @ Fri, 04 Feb 2005 4:31 pm)
Incidentally ... mine also Fukami fishes.  ohmy.gif
But not from DreamKoi.

Yours is already a 80% white when bought ... but mine is like 90% red ... now the fish is like a bruised fish ... look darn ugly with the blotches of red ... will post pic for record purpose.  mad.gif
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Mine was 100% red when bought. The reason I show both ranchu was that both were full red. I mean 100% red. Even the bottom.
yamato38gunkei
QUOTE(Samuelphan @ Thu, 03 Feb 2005 4:53 am)
Hi Guys,

Just wondering if there is any external factor that can cause a grown-up goldfish to
sudeenly start fading from a almost totally red fish to possibly a total white fish?

Is it genetic or could be due to the food being fed? etc

Reason for asking if bacuse I have a Nisai TVR that one day decided to start fading. Now aboyt 80% of the previous red areas have faded to show the unlying white ... now the fish looks very "dirty" with blurry red patches and unclean white areas.

Please advise ...

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan
*



Genetics... Bloodline... Nothing else !

Geert Coppens
GF Lover
QUOTE(yamato38gunkei @ Fri, 04 Feb 2005 4:36 pm)
Genetics...  Bloodline...  Nothing else !

Geert Coppens
*


Hi Geert,

If what you say is true, then Fukami bloodline has some problem (may be a good thing to some). Cannot be 2 of us having the same experience with the same bloodline.
Samuelphan
Hi Geert,

Given my limited knowledge in goldfish genetics ... is there any other insight that you can share regarding this genetic "deficiency"?

Any way to tell whether a fish will fade eventually or we really have to rely on "breeder" information? If a breeder dun disclose ... we will never know ... right?

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan
mountain
biggrin.gif i was right with my wild guess ... must try my luck on the 10million jackpot next week with 50cents.

does both of you keep them in clear water?
The Matrix
it's a bloodline problem. cross breeding of different bloodline or unstable brooder stock used during the breeding. u got no way to tell at all unless u breed them.
yamato38gunkei
QUOTE(goldfish Lover @ Fri, 04 Feb 2005 9:39 am)
Hi Geert,

If what you say is true, then Fukami bloodline has some problem (may be a good thing to some). Cannot be 2 of us having the same experience with the same bloodline.
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Fukami Ranchu bloodline is a commercial bloodline ! Quality can not be compared with the true hobbyist bloodlines.

Geert Coppens
yamato38gunkei
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Fri, 04 Feb 2005 6:18 pm)
it's a bloodline problem. cross breeding of different bloodline or unstable brooder stock used during the breeding. u got no way to tell at all unless u breed them.
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Crossing high quality bloodlines is not a problem. Using low quality bloodlines is the problem.

Geert Coppens
GF Lover
QUOTE(yamato38gunkei @ Sat, 05 Feb 2005 6:20 pm)
Crossing high quality bloodlines is not a problem.  Using low quality bloodlines is the problem.

Geert Coppens
*


Hi Geert,

How can one determine a good bloodline. I am sure breeder like Fukami can well afford to buy one of these good bloodline to start with.
The Matrix
QUOTE(goldfish Lover @ Sat, 05 Feb 2005 7:41 pm)
Hi Geert,

How can one determine a good bloodline. I am sure breeder like Fukami can well afford to buy one of these good bloodline to start with.
*



just like those "hamamatsu" fish lor. How many u see in those lfs got put the breeders' name or not ? all just hamamatsu. all ja-bu-lang gather here gather there and sell as a batch lor.

Fukami got good fish also lah, but pay your wallet dry to get one. It's a commercial farm, just like those Yatomi ranchu many bought lor. yatomi got so many breeders, which one leh, Fukami also one of them ? so all just jam pack into 1 single perfecture name "Yatomi" lor ... commercial grade.
goldrush
Allow me to add further to this discussion on fading colors.There are three basic requirement needed to retain a good ranchu not only in color but overall beauty and quality
.First is good environment,by far the most important and within keeper’s modification and manipulation
.Secondly,the fish must have good bloodline which have been thoroughly discussed above.Even though a system may be an excellent one,if the quality is not inbred the fish will have a reduced chance of becoming beautiful.This is beyond any keeper’s control and a good understanding of its bloodline is paramount to reduce but can never eliminate the chance of landing a poorly developed fish.
Thirdly ,feeding is very important to maintain and improve growth and color intensity to achieve maximum potential

To further add on the topic on bloodline,the term quality used by dealer or breeder is somewhat different from the keeper.For a breeder the quality of the fish is good because of its parents and bloodline.Many years were spent to create and establish a bloodline with good color,body conformation and body growth.These are achieved through numerous cross breeding to reach their expectation and these qualities are further improved with each future crossing with the breeder never satisfied with what he has achieved.

Keepers should possess the knowledge to see if the fish will reach its potential.Know what bloodline they come ,who bred them .Most of of the time they can make some predictions but even though the keeper may be very knowledgeable,they cannot predict what is going to happen to all the fish all the time.There is still an inherent unknown factor called luck,fortunate ones if you are blessed with a champion or arse luck if you are unfortunate enough to land yourself with a "moron."

Regards

goldrush

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