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RafflesGold Forums > Discussion Area > Green Water, Filtration and Tank Setup
ranchu8
QUOTE(desireless @ Mon, 28 Mar 2005 6:46 pm)
If it changes very quickly, there is possibility that there are traces of unspent De-Chlorinator (Sodium Thiosulphate) in your water.
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Is it ok for the fish if there is unspent sodium thiosulphate or other dechlorinator in the water? Is it safer to have more sodium thiosulphate than less? Presumably people including I may likely put in more since it is difficult to gauge the proper amount of the crystal sodium thiosulphate? Thanks and regards.
desireless
QUOTE(ranchu8 @ Mon, 28 Mar 2005 8:05 pm)
Is it ok for the fish if there is unspent sodium thiosulphate or other dechlorinator in the water? Is it safer to have more sodium thiosulphate than less?  Presumably people including I may likely put in more since it is difficult to gauge the proper amount of the crystal sodium thiosulphate?  Thanks and regards.
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Overdosing by 2-3 times of sodium thiosulphate than needed is ok for goldfish. But that doesn't mean too much of it won't kill.
CP
I overdose weekly... 1.5 to 2 times.Simply kiasu.
ranchu8
Thanks, is there a way to check whether there is excess of anti chlorine in the water? Use of KMnO4??

Does the excess "disappear " after a period in the water? regards
jhansolo
QUOTE(desireless @ Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:05 pm)
Overdosing by 2-3 times of sodium thiosulphate than needed is ok for goldfish. But that doesn't mean too much of it won't kill.
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I read in Fish love about the danger of overdosing with Hypo, but no reason given. I have search far and wide for this, but no one could explain. In Koi.com.my there was a topic but that is the danger of hypo with chlorimine which result is excessive ammonia. it is refering to a pond situation where there is a lot of water and results in a lot higer percentage of chlorimine.

Other anti-chlorine, might not have sodium thiosulphate, so it is not good to generalise.
desireless
Yes indeed, there's concern of ammonia released from Chloramine after adding De-Chlor. With a cycled tank, this issue is non-existence.

As for the question here, it is whether overdosage of Sodium Thiosulphate would be dangerous. Supposed you need only 3 drops of Genesis to completely de-chlor 10 litres of water (with Chlorine and Chloramine), whether you add 3 drops or 10 drops, the amount of ammonia released is the same. So if I were to answer if the remaining 7 additional drops will cause harm to your fishes, my answer will be 'no'.


PS: Regarding the issue if adding excessive hypo would be dangerous to your fishes.... ask seacucumber. biggrin.gif
The Matrix
QUOTE(jhansolo @ Tue, 29 Mar 2005 11:14 am)
I read in Fish love about the danger of overdosing with Hypo, but no reason given.  I have search far and wide for this, but no one could explain.  In Koi.com.my there was a topic but that is the danger of hypo with chlorimine which result is excessive ammonia.  it is refering to a pond situation where there is a lot of water and results in a lot higer percentage of chlorimine.

Other anti-chlorine, might not have sodium thiosulphate, so it is not good to generalise.
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concentration no matter how much water is still in parts per million or mg per L ... does not mean more hypo will increase ammonia. the logic u given not accurate.

edited ... added ...

paisey paisey ... just read again and find something not 100% correct in my post also.

hopefully i got you right this time. chloramines might be toxic, but the de-bonding by means of thiosulphate will reduce or eliminate the threat. but the thiosulphate will also release the ammonia. thus the more thiosulphate added, the more ammonia release, till the total chloramines are de-bonded.

however, i must add that the reaction are not as simple. But of course, still free ammonia are as dangerous as chloramines.
ranchu8
QUOTE(desireless @ Tue, 29 Mar 2005 10:27 pm)
... whether you add 3 drops or 10 drops, the amount of ammonia released is the same ...
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Thanks for all the info ... but then what about the effect of excessive sodium thiosulphate (rather than ammonia) on the fish?

er, may i confirm whether hypo is sodium thiosulphate?
The Matrix
QUOTE(ranchu8 @ Tue, 29 Mar 2005 11:20 pm)
Thanks for all the info ... but then what about the effect of excessive sodium thiosulphate (rather than ammonia) on the fish?

er, may i confirm whether hypo is sodium thiosulphate?
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to many, yes. hypo is referring to sodium thiosulphate. But technically, it is becos the byproduct is a hypochlorite ions.
jhansolo
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Tue, 29 Mar 2005 10:59 pm)

paisey paisey ... just read again and find something not 100% correct in my post also.
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Sorry also as I re-read my post, I left out the most critical thing in the Koi.com.my it was refering to massive water change in pond and overdosing Hypo at the same time.

As for Hypo poisoning which I read in Fish Love, I still have no lead.

As for desireless point about harmless, I think like wise unless the stupid fish when to swollow the undissolved hypo good_very.gif

But I still think there it is best not to over dose just like over feed ... morderation.
The Matrix
There is always a threshold on any chemicals we consume as well.
how much is too much, well, as long as twice the recoomended is more than enough.
jhansolo
I have finally found a good chemist in the point about overdose of Hypo

http://www.koi-bito.com/forums/showthread....08&page=3&pp=10
The Matrix
QUOTE(jhansolo @ Mon, 04 Apr 2005 4:29 pm)
I have finally found a good chemist in the point about overdose of Hypo

http://www.koi-bito.com/forums/showthread....08&page=3&pp=10
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Jimmy, u very persistent. Good for u !

i already hinted out hypochorite ions as by-product.... but noone seems to bother about the SO4 in the whole equation. H2S and S are always the factor that not easily understood.

As we do not overstock our tanks, such case seldom happen. But the major problem is the H2S which is extremely toxic if not removed thru some other means of filtration.

Well Done Captain Hansolo. May the force be with u.
ranchu8
JHansolo, thanks for the info and the perseverance.

Following, copied from the koi-bito webpage: "Please note the normal sodium thiosulfate charge is only 3.5 times the chlorine level, so a chlorine level of 3 PPM would need about 10 PPM sodium thiosulfate charge." Our PUB webpage states that our water has less than 2 ppm chlorine. What then practically is the appropriate amount of sodium thiosulphate crystals to treat tapwater and when does it become excessive? regards
jhansolo
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Mon, 04 Apr 2005 6:13 pm)
As we do not overstock our tanks, such case seldom happen. But the major problem is the H2S which is extremely toxic if not removed thru some other means of filtration.
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I thought H2S is a reaction of excess Hypo, how is that related to overstock

QUOTE(ranchu8 @ Mon, 04 Apr 2005 6:53 pm)
What then practically is the appropriate amount of sodium thiosulphate crystals to treat tapwater and when does it become excessive? regards
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To be safe it is good to test your tap water when you perform water change especially when you are using Hypo
The Matrix
QUOTE(jhansolo @ Tue, 05 Apr 2005 10:30 am)
I thought H2S is a reaction of excess Hypo, how is that related to overstock
To be safe it is good to test your tap water when you perform water change especially when you are using Hypo
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dig into the complex equation of the reaction. there are more to meets the eyes. what u see is a simplified one.
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