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RafflesGold Forums > Discussion Area > Green Water, Filtration and Tank Setup
infocus
Still at the very early stage of planning but cannot wait any longer and would like to post my idea here. I'm thinking of setting up a Koi pond and a Goldfish pond but will be using a single sump filteration system.

Anyone knows if this is possible? Can Koi & goldfish share the same filteration system?
infocus
This is my plan. smile.gif Please comment.

IPB Image
CP
They share more or less the same water parameters but here are some of my mostly negative comments,hope you dont mind:

1)Koi pond abt 1ft water depth not enough.Stunt kois.At least 4ft depth,better still 6 or 10ft.

2)Different nitrate tolerance levels,goldfish less tolerant kois more tolerant.Do you intend to do weekly water change?You need it for goldfish,but not koi.

3)Filtration (water turnover) rate paradox.Sharing the same pump,goldfish which needs less space will have higher turnover rate (smaller water volume) therefore stronger water current will result in the goldfish tank.On the other hand koi needs lots more space but increase in water volume for koi will have lower turnaround and less current in the koi tank.They prefer the opposites.

These are the immediate comments that I can think of.

Rgds
cpiw
CyberET
wah, sharing water with giants? some ppl use 1ton per koi neh.. i'm using 1/2 ton. so you intend to keep 1 koi and 10 goldfish?

besides sharing the same toilet, they are sharing parasites.

well.. it goes down to what are you rearing them for?
jhansolo
your filtration is insufficient, unless you plan to continuous drip water method.

for pond construction have a look at koi.com.my that should give you some perspective.
infocus
Thanks for the thinker. My comments in red below.

QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Tue, 29 Mar 2005 9:59 pm)
They share more or less the same water parameters but here are some of my mostly negative comments,hope you dont mind:

1)Koi  pond abt 1ft water depth not enough.Stunt kois.At least 4ft depth,better still 6 or 10ft. Oh, didn't know that koi need so much depth. Pond too high buay sui leh.
2)Different nitrate tolerance levels,goldfish less tolerant kois more tolerant.Do you intend to do weekly water change?You need it for goldfish,but not koi. Off course not. So I guess they can't share the same filteration system. Is there anyway out?
3)Filtration (water turnover) rate paradox.Sharing the same pump,goldfish which needs less space will have higher turnover rate (smaller water volume) therefore stronger water current will result in the goldfish tank.On the other hand koi needs lots more space but increase in water volume for koi will have lower turnaround and less current in the koi tank.They prefer the opposites. So does it helps if the koi pond is much bigger then the goldfish pond?
These are the immediate comments that I can think of.

Rgds
cpiw
*

infocus
Please see my comments in red. smile.gif

QUOTE(CyberET @ Wed, 30 Mar 2005 9:39 am)
wah, sharing water with giants? some ppl use 1ton per koi neh.. i'm using 1/2 ton. so you intend to keep 1 koi and 10 goldfish? Think I need to go back to the drawing board. 1 koi and 10 goldfish is definitely not what I want.
besides sharing the same toilet, they are sharing parasites. This I'm aware. That's why I need help from you bros, especially those who have experience with koi as well.
well.. it goes down to what are you rearing them for?
*

infocus
QUOTE(jhansolo @ Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:21 am)
your filtration is insufficient, unless you plan to continuous drip water method.

for pond construction have a look at koi.com.my  that should give you some perspective.
*



Thanks. Will take a look at the above website. To be frank, my knowledge of koi is still very minimal. Need to do more reading. tongue.gif

Btw, what is this continuous drip water method all about? rolleyes.gif
jhansolo
QUOTE(infocus @ Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:07 pm)
Btw, what is this continuous drip water method all about? rolleyes.gif
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http://www.RafflesGold.com/forums/index.ph...topic=749&st=30
CyberET
its all about poo management laugh.gif
The Matrix
hahahah El ... poo poo not easy to manage leh.

Anyway, general knowledge for all : vol of water to fish ratio is only a guideline for goldfish. the actual for any fish is usually the vol H20: mass of fish. So if u have a koi, relatively larger mass than a goldfish, then H2O requirement will also increase. Anyway, mass is not size.

Like ET mentioned, he is using around 500L per koi, around 50-60Bu fish right ? Or now grow to 80Bu liao ?

Change to 1ton ratio and see 100Bu in a couple of months. kekekekeke
CyberET
how can grow to 80bu? some cheap jap bloodline, and only 4 ton, not enough space to grow to 80bu na, 50bu more or less stuck liaoz. anyway using pub water le, change too much water, sure kena screw by parents.. so too bad lor, got goggle eyes koi
goldrush
Don't be discouraged CyberEt,you can still grow some koi up to 80 bu if you care to choose those under Kawarimono category(like Chagoi,ochiba shigure,Ki goi or Beni goi.As for the Gosanke category a bit more difficult as the bloodline to surpass that length over here needs a lot of luck and nurturing(like mud pond)

Just my thoughts

goldrush tongue.gif tongue.gif
The Matrix
QUOTE(goldrush @ Thu, 31 Mar 2005 2:46 pm)
Don't be discouraged CyberEt,you can still grow some koi up to 80 bu if you care to choose those under Kawarimono category(like Chagoi,ochiba shigure,Ki goi or Beni goi.As for the Gosanke category a bit more difficult as the bloodline to surpass that  length over here needs a lot of luck and nurturing(like mud pond)

Just my thoughts

goldrush tongue.gif  tongue.gif
*



I think he will buy FuZhou Butterfly or Master Xu bubble eyes instead of Suzuki Kawasaki Koi. hahahahaha Tio bo ET. hahaha.
infocus
Bros,

For a 7ft(L) x 3ft(L) x 3ft(H) fibre tank, is it big or deep enough for 9 kois? Base on this dimension, how many ton pond do I have? beg2.gif

Already increase my depth by 1 more ft. Really don't wish to have a deeper pond cause OC will not approve. sad.gif
CP
QUOTE(infocus @ Thu, 31 Mar 2005 7:48 pm)
Bros,

For a 7ft(L) x 3ft(L) x 3ft(H) fibre tank, is it big or deep enough for 9 kois? Base on this dimension, how many ton pond do I have? beg2.gif

Already increase my depth by 1 more ft. Really don't wish to have a deeper pond cause OC will not approve. sad.gif
*


1.5 tonnes.

If you get those $5 kois from LFS can keep 9.

If you get those $5k ones from Max or Nippon or JK keep 1 or 2.
infocus
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Thu, 31 Mar 2005 8:56 pm)
1.5 tonnes.

If you get those $5 kois from LFS can keep 9.

If you get those $5k ones from Max or Nippon or JK keep 1 or 2.
*



blush.gif You made my pond sound so small.......... laugh.gif
CP
Sorry.

Depends on what you want,actually.If you want to rear 9 for fengshui purposes it is perfectly OK to get those cheap kois from LFS and keep them there.

But if you intend to get serious then 1.5 tonnes of water is definately on the low side.
RBT
Different grades different prices!!Same as Ranchus(vast differences in fact)

Btw your drawing state the top pond for Koi whereas the lower bigger pond for Gfs?
desireless
OK, the stocking ratio for koi apart, can someone please enlighten me to the sharing of water?

Is the Koi-used water beneficial to Goldfish or is Goldfish-used water beneficial to Koi? If it is none of these 2, then why the sharing?
CyberET
QUOTE(goldrush @ Thu, 31 Mar 2005 2:46 pm)
Don't be discouraged CyberEt,you can still grow some koi up to 80 bu if you care to choose those under Kawarimono category(like Chagoi,ochiba shigure,Ki goi or Beni goi.As for the Gosanke category a bit more difficult as the bloodline to surpass that  length over here needs a lot of luck and nurturing(like mud pond)

Just my thoughts

goldrush tongue.gif  tongue.gif
*


na, unless i rebuilt and expand my pond capacity, and do a major revamp of the filtration system, i won't even bother to try. Even so, local koi scene boring, anyway "its all about the money".

QUOTE(The Matrix @ Thu, 31 Mar 2005 4:55 pm)
I think he will buy FuZhou Butterfly or Master Xu bubble eyes instead of Suzuki Kawasaki Koi. hahahahaha Tio bo ET. hahaha.
*


yalor, more fun, more challenge, more shiok!

QUOTE(infocus @ Thu, 31 Mar 2005 7:48 pm)
Bros,

For a 7ft(L) x 3ft(L) x 3ft(H) fibre tank, is it big or deep enough for 9 kois? Base on this dimension, how many ton pond do I have? beg2.gif

Already increase my depth by 1 more ft. Really don't wish to have a deeper pond cause OC will not approve. sad.gif
*


if u r getting for feng shui purpose, just get those cheap ones, 5 bucks per piece type, else i won't recommend u to keep kois. then have a seperate tub where by the over crowding kois won't affect your gfs

QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Thu, 31 Mar 2005 8:56 pm)
1.5 tonnes.

If you get those $5 kois from LFS can keep 9.

If you get those $5k ones from Max or Nippon or JK keep 1 or 2.
*


even 5k ones keep 1 or 2 in 1.5ton is a waste of money, hehe.. imho..

QUOTE(infocus @ Thu, 31 Mar 2005 9:46 pm)
blush.gif You made my pond sound so small.......... laugh.gif
*


erm, if u r talking about koi.. yes.. its considered small smile.gif

QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:17 pm)
Sorry.

Depends on what you want,actually.If you want to rear 9 for fengshui purposes it is perfectly OK to get those cheap kois from LFS and keep them there.

But if you intend to get serious then 1.5 tonnes of water is definately on the low side.
*


peace.gif
infocus
Thanks for the info. smile.gif

I would like to have it for fengshui but would also want to enjoy the process of having and caring them. So if it is a $5 grade, I would rather not have them cause see liao also buay song. hmm.gif

Will go back to my drawing board again to see if it is possible to increase the pond further and also separate the filtration systems for the kois and goldfish.

I would like to have those between few tenths of dollars to those few hundreds one. After reading some info about koi, I think the filteration system is a bit headache. ohmy.gif

Cheers
good.gif good.gif good.gif
goldrush
QUOTE(infocus @ Fri, 01 Apr 2005 9:13 am)
Thanks for the info. smile.gif

I would like to have it for fengshui but would also want to enjoy the process of having and caring them. So if it is a $5 grade, I would rather not have them cause see liao also buay song. hmm.gif

Will go back to my drawing board again to see if it is possible to increase the pond further and also separate the filtration systems for the kois and goldfish.

I would like to have those between few tenths of dollars to those few hundreds one. After reading some info about koi, I think the filteration system is a bit headache. ohmy.gif

Cheers
good.gif good.gif  good.gif
*




IT'S BETTER TO HAVE A HEADACHE NOW THAN A HEARTACHE THEN..........

yes.gif yes.gif yes.gif
jhansolo
QUOTE(infocus @ Fri, 01 Apr 2005 9:13 am)
I would like to have it for fengshui but would also want to enjoy the process of having and caring them. So if it is a $5 grade, I would rather not have them cause see liao also buay song. hmm.gif

Will go back to my drawing board again to see if it is possible to increase the pond further and also separate the filtration systems for the kois and goldfish.

I would like to have those between few tenths of dollars to those few hundreds one. After reading some info about koi, I think the filteration system is a bit headache. ohmy.gif
*



Your pond is serious small and your filtration is tiny for the load. My office building have a koi pond housing I think about 15 Kois some are rather big about 2 feet long. That pond is 8ton and filtration is 2 ton, I think from what I learn the filtration is usually 30% so this in my office building is under. As for separating the filtration for the koi and goldfish, settle the koi first, goldfish filtration is chicken feet after that.

Koi needs a lot of air, if you live in the east do pm and drop by my office building to take a look. This building is protected by Chubb so pm me first security is hyper.
CP
QUOTE(infocus @ Fri, 01 Apr 2005 9:13 am)
Thanks for the info. smile.gif

I would like to have it for fengshui but would also want to enjoy the process of having and caring them. So if it is a $5 grade, I would rather not have them cause see liao also buay song. hmm.gif

I would like to have those between few tenths of dollars to those few hundreds one. After reading some info about koi, I think the filteration system is a bit headache. ohmy.gif

Cheers
good.gif good.gif  good.gif
*


Now you see $5 ones boay song prefer few tenths or hundreds ones.

I can tell you if you have those tenths or hundreds ones very soon you will boay song again want to upgrade to better ones.Upgrading of quality in our hobby is expensive.I suggest you either get those cheap $5 ones OR tia tia one shot get good ones.No point getting those neither here nor there and then fret later.
goldrush
Now we have to start somewhere in between.If you are relatively new to a hobby it is best not to indulge into something too expensive or it will kill your passion once something goes wrong.Upgrade progressively when you are more confident in your keeping.You can donate those unwanted to many organisation when you intend to progress to higher level of playing.It is recommended that at least 25% of your tank should be filtration system to ensure adequate maintenance of your pond.I have one that is 20 tons, of which 8 tons is filtration alone and 12 tons of swimming space only!

regards

goldrush
infocus
QUOTE(goldrush @ Fri, 01 Apr 2005 9:33 am)
IT'S BETTER TO HAVE A HEADACHE NOW THAN A HEARTACHE THEN..........

yes.gif   yes.gif  yes.gif
*



Agree. peace.gif

QUOTE(jhansolo @ Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:23 am)
Your pond is serious small and your filtration is tiny for the load.  My office building have a koi pond housing I think about 15 Kois some are rather big about 2 feet long.  That pond is 8ton and filtration is 2 ton, I think from what I learn the filtration is usually 30% so this in my office building is under.  As for separating the filtration for the koi and goldfish, settle the koi first, goldfish filtration is chicken feet after that. 

Koi needs a lot of air, if you live in the east do pm and drop by my office building to take a look.  This building is protected by Chubb so pm me first security is hyper.
*



Yup. Saw the website that you recommended. Filtration should be around 30% of the tank size. goldfish filtration really seems chicken feet now. blink.gif That why I said it's a headache loh.

I hardly go to the east. Thanks for the offer. Will let you know if got the opportunity. good_very.gif

QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:14 am)
Now you see $5 ones boay song prefer few tenths or hundreds ones.

I can tell you if you have those tenths or hundreds ones very soon you will boay song again want to upgrade to better ones.Upgrading of quality in our hobby is expensive.I suggest you either get those cheap $5 ones OR tia tia one shot get good ones.No point getting those neither here nor there and then fret later.
*



I understand what you mean but I'm not that rich, can't afford one shot get good one leh. tongue.gif

QUOTE(goldrush @ Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:54 am)
Now we have to start somewhere in between.If you are relatively new to a hobby it is best not to indulge into something too expensive or it will kill your passion once something goes wrong.Upgrade progressively when you are more confident in your keeping.You can donate those unwanted to many organisation when you intend to progress to higher level of playing.It is recommended that at least 25% of your tank should be filtration system to ensure adequate maintenance of your pond.I have one that is 20 tons, of which 8 tons is filtration alone and 12 tons of swimming space only!

regards

goldrush
*



Wow, the pond for koi sounds rather like a small swimming pool. Filtration also ma chiam for swimming pool too. Might have to drop the idea and concentrate on goldfish instead. sad.gif So sad. cry.gif
CyberET
ya.. some ppl convert their swimming pool into koi ponds smile.gif
infocus
QUOTE(CyberET @ Sat, 02 Apr 2005 1:36 pm)
ya.. some ppl convert their swimming pool into koi ponds smile.gif
*



I was thinking since I have 2 separate ponds, might as well use one for koi. Why do I need 2 ponds for goldfish? But seems like there is no way to keep good koi this way unless I have 2 swimming pools. tongue.gif Anyone has any suggestion what I can do? I would prefer to share the filteration system as:

(1) I can save time maintaining & cleaning the filter and
(2) save on electrical bills as only one pump is required.
nobnoba
QUOTE(goldrush @ Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:54 am)
Now we have to start somewhere in between.If you are relatively new to a hobby it is best not to indulge into something too expensive or it will kill your passion once something goes wrong.Upgrade progressively when you are more confident in your keeping.You can donate those unwanted to many organisation when you intend to progress to higher level of playing.It is recommended that at least 25% of your tank should be filtration system to ensure adequate maintenance of your pond.I have one that is 20 tons, of which 8 tons is filtration alone and 12 tons of swimming space only!

regards

goldrush
*



Goldrush, do you have a pic of your koi pond? i would like to see what does the pond look like with 8 tons of filtration and 12 tons of swimming space. is the filtration space adjacent to the swimming space? or hidden somewhere?

I never knew that koi needs 30% space for filtration, all i have seen is for koi to live, they just need a heck of good (and expensive) filtration system. thats all. Anyone has pictures or link to websites, i am most interested.
CP
QUOTE(nobnoba @ Tue, 05 Apr 2005 4:00 pm)
Goldrush, do you have a pic of your koi pond? i would like to see what does the pond look like with 8 tons of filtration and 12 tons of swimming space. is the filtration space adjacent to the swimming space? or hidden somewhere?

*



I think he is probably a bit too old (sorry ah,bro) to remember where he has posted it before but I remember he posted in one of my threads,here is a glimpse of it.

http://www.RafflesGold.com/forums/index.ph...indpost&p=19895

Want to see more go to his place.
goldrush
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Tue, 05 Apr 2005 4:27 pm)
I think he is probably a bit too old (sorry ah,bro) to remember where he has posted it before but I remember he posted in one of my threads,here is a glimpse of it.

http://www.RafflesGold.com/forums/index.ph...indpost&p=19895

Want to see more go to his place.
*



wah ah lau

Thxs for your referral .Honestly I really can't remember where I have posted the thread mentioned and you are still acute in your finding despite being Ah Lau(in name but unlike me in age) good.gif

regards

goldrush
nobnoba
thanks for the link.
i love your pond. but still, i am curious, where do u put the 8 tonnes of water for filter? where do u hide it?
sorry if this question is so basic, but i am curious as well as confuse. hehehe
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