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HappyBuddha
Swee boh?

I know I once said I don't like Oranda but... lately I've been quite fascinated by them especially if they have massive headgrowth. I also said I don't like calico goldfish ... but... given a choice... I still prefer a "normal" goldfish. biggrin.gif

Here's the first of two I bought in Hong Kong.

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HappyBuddha
Check out those cheeks too.

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HappyBuddha
I hope to pump it up around the waist. biggrin.gif

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HappyBuddha
The right-side.

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HappyBuddha
Another close-up view... the brain exploded!

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HappyBuddha
Top view. shiok.gif

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mountain
their caps always grow out of shape one .. one piece here, one piece there. tongue.gif but yei, looks a bit thin.
Seacucumber
the top view is pretty interesting....
hahaha....
good.gif
void
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Mon 05 Jan 2004 06:24 PM)
Swee boh?

I know I once said I don't like Oranda but... lately I've been quite fascinated by them especially if they have massive headgrowth.  I also said I don't like calico goldfish ... but... given a choice... I still prefer a "normal" goldfish.  biggrin.gif

Here's the first of two I bought in Hong Kong.

Wah... ohmy.gif you mean you bought those orandas from hong kong?! Handcarry? No problem with custom? I'm always thinking of buying goldfish from Hong Kong or China too... good.gif
dennis
There is no faulting the wen of the first fish. Simple outstanding! good_very.gif I love this type of wen configuration especially the cheeks. Only thing I don't like about it is the length of the body, seems abit too long for me. I guess if you pump it up, it should look better. smile.gif
dennis
QUOTE(void @ Mon 05 Jan 2004 11:57 PM)
Wah...  ohmy.gif  you mean you bought those orandas from hong kong?!  Handcarry? No problem with custom? I'm always thinking of buying goldfish from Hong Kong or China too...  good.gif

void, I have include the importation limits procedure and limits in the FAQ and Tips section of the forum.
CyberET
sorry, i only like the coloration of the fishy smile.gif
Inxs
Any way to spray it black and make it longer, look like bundle of hair. When it swim, look like hair flowing in the water. rolleyes.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(void @ Mon 05 Jan 2004 11:57 PM)
Wah...  ohmy.gif  you mean you bought those orandas from hong kong?!  Handcarry? No problem with custom? I'm always thinking of buying goldfish from Hong Kong or China too...  good.gif

I hand carry them back. I didn't have any problem with custom at the airport. In fact, I walked through the “nothing to declare” aisle carrying a deflated plastic bag with the fishes inside in full view for the custom officer to see. They didn’t stop me. Maybe they can tell I had less than 3 litres of water and only two fishes in it. biggrin.gif
void
QUOTE(dennis @ Tue 06 Jan 2004 12:52 AM)
void, I have include the importation limits procedure and limits in the FAQ and Tips section of the forum.

Thanks, bro for your info... good.gif
void
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Tue 06 Jan 2004 01:10 PM)
I hand carry them back.  I didn't have any problem with custom at the airport.  In fact, I walked through the “nothing to declare” aisle carrying a deflated plastic bag with the fishes inside in full view for the custom officer to see.  They didn’t stop me.  Maybe they can tell I had less than 3 litres of water and only two fishes in it.  biggrin.gif

Wow... cool man... good_very.gif Should visit Tung Choi Street and buy good stuff... I wonder if the goldfish standard are good... n the price too.. wink.gif
HappyBuddha
Here are some pics of the seconds Oranda. Unfortunately, I only managed to take pics while the fish was still in shock and lying on the tank's floor.... and my DC's battery went dead before it recovers.

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HappyBuddha
Right-side.

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HappyBuddha
This guy is not so long compared to the first one?

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Inxs
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Tue 06 Jan 2004 05:37 PM)
This guy is not so long compared to the first one?

This one look better than the first one. i "suan-ba".
HappyBuddha
I need to learn more about Orandas... as I never liked them and didn't pay much attention on how a good one should look like.

Where is bro oranda? cry.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(void @ Tue 06 Jan 2004 03:45 PM)
Wow... cool man...  good_very.gif  Should visit Tung Choi Street and buy good stuff... I wonder if the goldfish standard are good... n the price too..  wink.gif

I didn't go to tung choi street (aka men's street) this time around... but the shops are very cramp. Goldfish is very popular in HK so you can find all kinds of goldfish of different qualities. That street is really a goldfish siao's heaven.

Here's a HK fish forum... which has a sub-forum on goldfish. Pretty interesting if you can read mandarin. There's also a map of tung choi street if you plan to visit.
LASERGUY
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Tue 06 Jan 2004 05:37 PM)
This guy is not so long compared to the first one?

From what I learnt from Seah at AC, Oranda with longish body will grow to a bigger fish than one with a rounder body. This can be observed on Bruce the largest goldfish.

Correct me if I am wrong, by looking at the way the 2nd fish rest on the bottom, suspect that it has bladder/buoyancy problem ? unsure.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(LASERGUY @ Tue 06 Jan 2004 06:54 PM)
From what I learnt from Seah at AC, Oranda with longish body will grow to a bigger fish than one with a rounder body. This can be observed on Bruce the largest goldfish.

I recall Alvin Lim mentioned something like that too on the CNA show. He said a young fish should not be too rounded or they will not grow big in size.

QUOTE(LASERGUY @ Tue 06 Jan 2004 06:54 PM)
Correct me if I am wrong, by looking at the way the 2nd fish rest on the bottom, suspect that it has bladder/buoyancy problem ?

I've been keeping the orandas in toyogo tubs and only observed them from the top... and didn't notice this behaviour. A quick flip through those pics I took showed this oranda indeed lie on the floor in that Anabel Chong position throughout it stay in the glass tank. I hope it's becoz it's in shock coming from a dim tub to a brightly lit tank for photoshoot. Otherwise, it swims normally ... but I now noticed the head does points downward somewhat while it swims. Thanks for highlighting it out; I'll observe somemore and hopefully find a way to correct it? unsure.gif

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void
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Tue 06 Jan 2004 05:37 PM)
This guy is not so long compared to the first one?

Yes... this one looks much better than the first one...
Inxs
QUOTE(void @ Tue 06 Jan 2004 09:38 PM)
Yes... this one looks much better than the first one...

But I still feel the head is too heavy. Keep swimming in an decline angle right?
void
QUOTE(WongDanny @ Tue 06 Jan 2004 09:43 PM)
But I still feel the head is too heavy. Keep swimming in an decline angle right?

Hehehe... correct me if I'm wrong... I've just bought 4 chinese ranchus which just arrived from China... For the first 1 week, they just thiam thiam floating at decline angle... But now 3 of them actively swimming happily... but one of them still thiam thiam... I guess it will take sometime for them to recover from stress...
dennis
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Tue 06 Jan 2004 07:46 PM)
A quick flip through those pics I took showed this oranda indeed lie on the floor in that Anabel Chong position throughout it stay in the glass tank.

Nope strongly disagree! hmm.gif Anabel Chong position looks more like SBD where the fish flips upside down. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(void @ Tue 06 Jan 2004 10:03 PM)
Hehehe... correct me if I'm wrong... I've just bought 4 chinese ranchus which just arrived from China... For the first 1 week, they just thiam thiam floating at decline angle... But now 3 of them actively swimming happily... but one of them still thiam thiam... I guess it will take sometime for them to recover from stress...

That's not the case for these orandas. They were very stone for 2 days after I brought them home. Didn't move much and just stayed on the tub's floor all the time. I was worried. Then I drop a few pellets and saw them spring back to life. Now they're on bloodworms only and are very active... but yes, they do swim with the head pointing downwards somewhat. I'm not sure if the bow head is normal as the tub is mere 6 inches deep and they could be looking for food, or their finage can't extend fully for proper control. I'm going to get a tall (12 inches) toyogo and see if that corrects their swimming posture. smile.gif
Hamad
Wow, to me these fish look absolutely stunning. I'm a huge fan of orandas with huge wen and I think they're pretty rare to find...What adds more beauty to these is the color, I normally don't like calicos but I love calicos that have a lot of bright red, light shades and not too much black.

I don't see a problem with the first one's body, I think longer body is better for orandas with massive heads like this because short bodied ones can't carry the head so well and usually end up facing down a lot.

HappyBuddha, could you please add pictures of them after they adjusted to their new environement? I would like to see pics of them swimming.

Thanks!
LASERGUY
Welcome, Hamad ! You have finally found your way here. laugh.gif
Hamad
Thank you so much Laserguy, I missed you guys a lot! I've been away and didn't have internet for some time and when I came back I was shocked that everybody's gone from the AF forum until I checked my pm and found the link to this new GORGEOUS place! I'm so happy that there's finally a high quality site for goldfish lovers! smile.gif
kingyoo
Hi happybuddah!

I like the first oranda. It has nice wen and a cute "puppy face". Don't let the longer body fool you. Oranda's are larger goldfish breed and when this guys gets to be 2 years old. Wow! It will fill out nicely.

Here is a pic of what a Westerner would consisder a very nice show quality oranda.
(Not my fish)

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HappyBuddha
QUOTE(Hamad @ Mon 26 Jan 2004 05:49 PM)
Wow, to me these fish look absolutely stunning. I'm a huge fan of orandas with huge wen and I think they're pretty rare to find...What adds more beauty to these is the color, I normally don't like calicos but I love calicos that have a lot of bright red, light shades and not too much black.

I don't see a problem with the first one's body, I think longer body is better for orandas with massive heads like this because short bodied ones can't carry the head so well and usually end up facing down a lot.

HappyBuddha, could you please add pictures of them after they adjusted to their new environement? I would like to see pics of them swimming.

Thanks!

I'm not a big fan of calico too unless there's little black (it's no wonder I like the sakura variety though.) They still have some black markings and [evil grin] I've been wondering if keeping them in a lower pH water will "help" them lose the black colours like a black ranchu would. Hahaha.

In my earlier posting, I mentioned both of them tend to swim with the head tilted downwards somewhat. It turns out my suspicion was correct; the low water depth of the tub was the cause. I now keep them in 12 inches of water and they seem to be able to swim level.

I'm getting more and more fascinated by Orandas. These two are crazy goldfish. They are constantly looking out for food. Any speck of foreign object in the tank would end up in their mouth. They are constantly exploring the tank and nibbing everything in sight including my finger. mad.gif

I'll update their pics soon.

Welcome aboard! hi.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(kingyoo @ Tue 27 Jan 2004 01:42 AM)
Hi happybuddah!

I like the first oranda.  It has nice wen and a cute "puppy face".  Don't let the longer body fool you.  Oranda's are larger goldfish breed and when this guys gets to be 2 years old.  Wow!  It will fill out nicely.

Here is a pic of what a Westerner would consisder a very nice show quality oranda.
(Not my fish)
User Posted Image

In Singapore, the most common type of oranda is red and white ones from Malaysia. Each is about 1 1/2 to 2 inches in body length and costs just $2-$3 (US$1.17 - US$1.76).

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Being the most common, many (myself included) have the impression that Oranda should have a short body. An interesting observation I made is I seldom if ever see large adult size "short-bodied" orandas at LFS! I guess this pretty much confirms that short-body orandas just can't make it past childhood? smile.gif

Thanks for the pic. That's a oranda with a nice and unique color combination. I especially like the tails, which hangs down so gracefully.
HappyBuddha
On closer examination of the pic, I notice the split as highlighted below.

One of my oranda also has the same split on its tails. I have not observe such a split on ranchus and Ryukins.

Are they common on Orandas and will the split heal?

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kingyoo
Good eyesight! I didn't notice the split, which would be points off this fish in a show.

I think the split will heal IF it was a split from injury. If the split is a grow out, then no.



As for short body... I think that goldfish looks evolve over the years to what the collectors desire.

Here is a link to the BAS site with Oranda standard. The line drawing shows the standard, very round body, yet the photos show a little bit longer body. Beautiful fins though.

BAS Oranda Standard
mountain
HB, i got 2 oranda, have splits also. You are never Alone.

not able to post pic, my P4 cpu got fried. will try to asap.
Hamad
I currently have an oranda with a very short body and large wen [lionhead] that's around 4.5", in fact it's the only fish I currently have...it's only flaw is the tail which isn't very well balanced although it's hard to notice till u observe well from different dimensions. It actually looks extremely close to the last picture HappyBuddha posted but with more white and not so deep red [but deep enough].

Unfortunately due to my moving this past week the fish now suffers from gill disease and I'm trying to cure it with salt. I hope it'll make it cause just like HappyBuddha said, it's rare to find such shape with Orandas over 3".

I'm hoping with good care it can increase in size, it did become fuller in shape since I first got it a couple of weeks back.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(mountain @ Tue 27 Jan 2004 08:53 AM)
HB, i got 2 oranda, have splits also. You are never Alone.

not able to post pic, my P4 cpu got fried. will try to asap.

I didn't know you have orandas; never posted their pics in your gallery eh? The split is due to injuries or grown like dat? I'm begining to suspect my oranda grew it. sad.gif

Pentium? hmm.gif Upgrade to a Motorola yes.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(Hamad @ Tue 27 Jan 2004 09:24 AM)
I currently have an oranda with a very short body and large wen [lionhead] that's around 4.5", in fact it's the only fish I currently have...it's only flaw is the tail which isn't very well balanced although it's hard to notice till u observe well from different dimensions. It actually looks extremely close to the last picture HappyBuddha posted but with more white and not so deep red [but deep enough]. 
 
Unfortunately due to my moving this past week the fish now suffers from gill disease and I'm trying to cure it with salt. I hope it'll make it cause just like HappyBuddha said, it's rare to find such shape with Orandas over 3". 
 
I'm hoping with good care it can increase in size, it did become fuller in shape since I first got it a couple of weeks back.

They say the intense red on those Malaysian orandas is a result of feeding them with colour enhancing hormones, which will kill the fish very quickly. That should explain why I never had any real success in keeping them for long.

Do show us pics of your oranda if you have a digital camera. happydance1.gif
LASERGUY
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Tue 27 Jan 2004 06:43 AM)
I'm not a big fan of calico too unless there's little black (it's no wonder I like the sakura variety though.)  They still have some black markings and [evil grin] I've been wondering if keeping them in a lower pH water will "help" them lose the black colours like a black ranchu would.  Hahaha.

In my earlier posting, I mentioned both of them tend to swim with the head tilted downwards somewhat.  It turns out my suspicion was correct; the low water depth of the tub was the cause.  I now keep them in 12 inches of water and they seem to be able to swim level. 

I'm getting more and more fascinated by Orandas.  These two are crazy goldfish.  They are constantly looking out for food.  Any speck of foreign object in the tank would end up in their mouth.  They are constantly exploring the tank and nibbing everything in sight including my finger.  mad.gif

I'll update their pics soon.

Welcome aboard!  hi.gif

Errr... Buddha, lower pH will darken your fishes instead of lighten them.
Was told by a thai breeder that to lower the pH to 6.8 for thai black ranchu to maintain it's chacoal black colouration.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(LASERGUY @ Tue 27 Jan 2004 12:09 PM)
Errr... Buddha, lower pH will darken your fishes instead of lighten them.
Was told by a thai breeder that to lower the pH to 6.8 for thai black ranchu to maintain it's chacoal black colouration.

blush.gif

You're right. It's the lower pH that keeps the black scales of a ranchu instead of fading to copper.

Off topic: Of course this makes me wonder how to keep the black scales on a Tie Bao Jing (black/gold) golfish intact. Too low a pH the orange fades; too high pH the black fades. It's a catch 22 situation. mad.gif
Hamad
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Tue 27 Jan 2004 08:03 AM)
They say the intense red on those Malaysian orandas is a result of feeding them with colour enhancing hormones, which will kill the fish very quickly.  That should explain why I never had any real success in keeping them for long. 
 
Do show us pics of your oranda if you have a digital camera. happydance1.gif

Oh so that's why! I actually do find a lot of those 2" orandas around [short bodies, large wens, long fins] but me too never had luck with them. In fact I rarely had luck with small fish in general, was only lucky a couple of times. The one you posted though is stunning, I really hope it will survive and grow!

I don't have a digital camera at the moment, but as soon as I do I'll definitely share! laugh.gif
LASERGUY
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Tue 27 Jan 2004 12:41 PM)
blush.gif

You're right.  It's the lower pH that keeps the black scales of a ranchu instead of fading to copper.

Off topic:  Of course this makes me wonder how to keep the black scales on a Tie Bao Jing (black/gold) golfish intact.  Too low a pH the orange fades; too high pH the black fades. It's a catch 22 situation.  mad.gif

Maintain at pH 7.0, may be ?
Black, pH 6.8 ~ 6.9.....
Other, pH 7.2 ~ 7.3 .....
Aiyah, not very sure lah... Let all the gurus out there to confirm....
kingyoo
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Tue 27 Jan 2004 12:41 PM)
Too low a pH the orange fades; too high pH the black fades. It's a catch 22 situation

Add magnesium sulfate (epsom salts) to your water. It boosts the GH which will keep the red color intense. Of course green water helps color too. Right?
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(kingyoo @ Wed 28 Jan 2004 01:34 AM)
 
Add magnesium sulfate (epsom salts) to your water. It boosts the GH which will keep the red color intense.  Of course green water helps color too.  Right?

I don't know what exactly GH is but would adding baking soda, which boost the KH, work equally well?

I also don't know what epsom salt is... but I read "salt" and it is my understanding that parasites will adapt to the salinity and becomes immune. Hence, I only apply salt when the fish needs medical treatment.

This, would using baking soda has the same effect as using Epsom Salt?
kingyoo
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Wed 28 Jan 2004 10:19 AM)
I also don't know what epsom salt is... but I read "salt" and it is my understanding that parasites will adapt to the salinity and becomes immune. Hence, I only apply salt when the fish needs medical treatment.

Epsom salt is NOT a salt, we just call it that. It is magnesium sulfate hydrate. It looks like salt in crystalized form. No worries.

QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Wed 28 Jan 2004 10:19 AM)
I don't know what exactly GH is but would adding baking soda, which boost the KH, work equally well?

Long answer....

Water accumulates many dissolved substances before it reaches our home taps. Hardness is a measurement of the concentration of metal ions. Some are calcium, magnesium, iron, and zinc. In most water it consist mainly of calcium and magnesium salts, with trace amounts of other metals.
There are two kinds of hardness that we consider with fish keeping. Permanent hardness and alkalinity (kH) So, kh plus Permanent hardness equals general hardness (gH).

Alkalinity or temporary (carbonate) hardness (kH) refers to the hardness derived mainly from carbonate and bicarbonate ions and directly reflects the buffering capacity of the water. So adding Baking Soda (sodium bicarbonate) raises kh, thus buffers your water.

PLUS
Permanent hardness measures ions such as nitrates, sulphates, and chlorides etc,

Equals
General hardness (gH) refers to the dissolved concentration primarily of magnesium and calcium ions.


A lot of fish keepers skip the gH testing as it doesn't seem as important. However, I feel that for my fish I want to give them the best care. My tap water is almost zero kH and zero gH. Their colors are more brilliant with addition of epsom salt since they are indoors without much sunlight and no green water.

I hope that helps.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(kingyoo @ Thu 29 Jan 2004 02:35 AM)
Epsom salt is NOT a salt, we just call it that.  It is magnesium sulfate hydrate.  It looks like salt in crystalized form.  No worries.

Long answer....

Thank you my dear.

I just spend some time reading up on Epsom Salt at the Epsom Salt Industry Council and found many interesting facts about it. I'm going to get some today at the drug store, not only for my goldfish but my own use too. biggrin.gif

I have to get a GH test kit as well.

QUOTE(kingyoo @ Thu 29 Jan 2004 02:35 AM)
There are two kinds of hardness that we consider with fish keeping. Permanent hardness and alkalinity (kH) So, kh plus Permanent hardness equals general hardness (gH).


I usually dose enough Baking Soda to raise the kH from 0dKH to 4dKH (clear water) or 8dkH (green water).

Since GH = kH + permanent hardness, what is the ideal GH?

In this scenario, let's use Epsom Salt for permanent hardness.

Suppose the "ideal" GH is 10.

A 10 degrees GH can be archive in the following combination:-
8kH + X amount of Epsom Salt
4kH + Y amount of Epsom Salt
1kH + Z amount of Epsom Salt
Which combination is the correct one, or did I misunderstood your explanation on GH? unsure.gif


sorry-big.gif

Sorry sorry sorry.

The above scenario is completely wrong. Please ignore.

Total Hardness = GH + KH

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/water/hardness.htm
kingyoo
QUOTE(HappyDude @ 29 Jan 2004 06:35 AM)
Since GH = kH + permanent hardness, what is the ideal GH?

I believe most koi hobbiest keep their gH at about 160ppm. I use that a guide for my goldfish. Seems fine to me. (you will need to convert from German measure dK to ppm) I will look for a conversion chart too.

Dose? It depends on what your current gH reads. 1/4 cup of epsom salt per 100 gallons of water should raise your gH between 25- 50 ppm.

I have never heard of overdose of epsom salt, but I am sure it is possible.
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