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RafflesGold Forums > Discussion Area > Green Water, Filtration and Tank Setup
yckhor
Hi, all.

I had recently purchased a 4' x 1.5' x 1.5' tank with sump.
however, I discovered that the water temperature is pretty high.
I can feel the water to be warm even in the morning.
Questions:
1. Do I need a chiller to cool down the water temperature?
2. What is the optimum water temperature for gold fish?
3. What type of lamp should be used? 6500K is for planted tank right? what about goldfish?
4. How many hours per day should we switch on the light?

I found that the GFs swim more lively in my outdoor tub that has a much lower water temperature, now that I move all except one calico ranchu. Please advice whether a chiller is necessary?

Was told by LFS (myth?),
1. chiller keeps water cool at 26 degree which is good to keep GFs colour?

Thank you for your kind advice.

P/S: great to see RG back online. Was shocked to see it went offline.... keep up the good work.
CyberET
when u say high, how high is high?
my outdoor tubs can hit 30degs during hot spells.
u want lamps for viewing fish or ?
your outdoor tub bigger is it? maybe the sun too bright, so the fish very active.
greenhorn
I have my heater in my goldfish that at all times set at 30 degree. So it this high? They are always active.
CP
QUOTE(greenhorn @ Fri, 01 Jul 2005 4:34 pm)
I have my heater in my goldfish that at all times set at 30 degree. So it this high? They are always active.
*


Do away with the heater.Goldfish can tolerate up to freezing temperatures and besides, you are lowering the dissolved oxygen level in your tank.
greenhorn
Sometime I wish I can do away with the heater, even my discus does not require that. However, I tend to find more secure with heater and once off it, they are more prone to sickness. The dissolved oxygen level should be sufficient as the air pump are at full speed. The disadvantages are that I am not able to breed them due to lack of fluctuation in temperature.
CP
Heater is only used when treating the goldfish for diseases, eg to accelerate the cycle of ich when treating white spots.Other than that it is not necessary.You can keep them in air-conditioned room even, no problems.

When you have max aeration already the amount of DO in the water is temperature dependant.So suppose if you have max aeration at 24C, if you maintain the same aeration but increase the temperature the DO level will drop.
In other words, if you have moderate aeration at 24C but DO is already saturated, you will not increase the DO by increasing the aeration.I hope you get what I mean by "saturated DO, then its tempearture dependant."
jhansolo
actually I also used to put in a heater as 2ft temp change is big. But thinking back, if I'm still on a 2ft, I might just do that, but I never set it to 30. Back in those days I change the temp on the heater almost daily. the max I would go is 27
CyberET
aiyo.. ppl want water to be cold, u want it to be hot..
goldrush
goldfish are often classified under cold water fish and not under tropical fish so dont subject them to unnecessary heat treatment constantly.They will loose their lustre and coloration in no time
skiver23
i have a 2 ft tank with 2 4" ranchu..... it is place in my living room, do i need a heater ? if yes.. wat temp should i maintain the water ?
CP
I though it is pretty clear from all the replies that heater is NOT required?
The Matrix
QUOTE(skiver23 @ Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:19 am)
i have a 2 ft tank with 2  4" ranchu..... it is place in my living room, do i need a heater ? if yes.. wat temp should i maintain the water ?
*



Small tank, mid size fish. Better think of how to maintaining the water condition than worry about temperature.
engliang
QUOTE(CP @ Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:22 am)
I though it is pretty clear from all the replies that heater is NOT required?
*




Hi,

I feel that putting a heater in the tank is not to heat up the water, but to help to maintain a constant temp for the fishes.

1. If I remember correctly, water gains and loses heat pretty fast.
Say at night, I believe water in the tank in the house can drop to maybe about 25C, while in the afternoon, can rise to about 29-30C? So this is about a 5C fluctuation. By using a heater set at 28C, the fluctuation reduces to about 1-2C.
Isn't a constant temp better for the fishes?

2. Many ppl always say goldfishes are coldwater fishes, which of course is true, and that they can tolerate v low temperatures. I feel that this is true for wild-bred goldfishes in the ponds where 4 seasons exist. However, those goldfishes that we bought at LFS are already domesticated and may not go throught the seasonal change. As such, I don't really believe these goldfishes can withstand high temp fluctuations.

Just my personal views.
CyberET
my outdoor tub goes up to 32 deg during a hot day, and down to 25 deg at night, my fish ok le, growing well.

will you be using a heater to warm the water up to 28deg before u change water?

har? i thought GFs u buy from lfs most of them are imported from 4 seasons china?
desireless
The fluctuations in our country is usually about 4-6oC and this changes do not occur adruptly. SG is not like other climate countries where the temp fluctuation from day to night is usually more than 10oC. The temp of the our tank water is a result of acclimating with the temp of the room, and the fish will not be subjected to shock, as in the case of the abrupt change in temp during water change.

Take the advices from our bros here - We do not advocate using of heater for goldfish in SINGAPORE. Most of us have been keeping goldfishes for many years without the use of heater (They only come to good use when treating sick or new fishes).

Of course, I cannot say the same for hobbyists in other countries. They'll need thermostat and heater so that temp will not go down too fast for their fishes to adapt.


Edit by CP - I've added the "not".I think desireless meant "do not".
engliang
QUOTE(CyberET @ Mon, 10 Oct 2005 1:22 pm)
my outdoor tub goes up to 32 deg during a hot day, and down to 25 deg at night, my fish ok le, growing well.

will you be using a heater to warm the water up to 28deg before u change water?

har? i thought GFs u buy from lfs most of them are imported from 4 seasons china?
*



Hmm...I'm just saying if there is a thermostat heater to maintain a constant temp for the goldfishes instead of subjecting them to 7C fluctuation, isn't it better?
And too low temp can cause ICH right?

As for changing water, just add the water, and the heater will adjust the temperature accordingly right?

I'm comparing wild-bred fish and domesticated aquarium fish, feel that they don't exhibit simlar characteristics and traits.
I know gfs are coldwater fishes and they can withstand 4 seasons.
However, I don't believe domesticated gfs are as hardy, you can try putting ur goldfish in a bowl, and put it into the fridge, and observe whether it is comfortable.

Just my personal opinions, no offence ok. =)
Me just newbie, of course can't be compared to the experts here lar, me just saying my views.
The Matrix
QUOTE(engliang @ Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:57 am)
Hi,

I feel that putting a heater in the tank is not to heat up the water, but to help to maintain a constant temp for the fishes.

1. If I remember correctly, water gains and loses heat pretty fast.
Say at night, I believe water in the tank in the house can drop to maybe about 25C, while in the afternoon, can rise to about 29-30C? So this is about a 5C fluctuation. By using a heater set at 28C, the fluctuation reduces to about 1-2C.
Isn't a constant temp better for the fishes?

2. Many ppl always say goldfishes are coldwater fishes, which of course is true, and that they can tolerate v low temperatures. I feel that this is true for wild-bred goldfishes in the ponds where 4 seasons exist. However, those goldfishes that we bought at LFS are already domesticated and may not go throught the seasonal change. As such, I don't really believe these goldfishes can withstand high temp fluctuations.

Just my personal views.
*




Most of the goldfish are from China. Which ARE quite "seasoned" fish already. Com'on ... Here in Singapore, not other places, DO not experience a big tidal wave, no desert storm or icy cold spell minutes to minutes. At most a cool 25C morning, warming to the peak of 33C in the noon and cool down towards the evening. It's a cycle of 8-12 hours. Water is not a real good conductor but will gradually adjust to the environment thru the holding media and the surface air.

Unless we are talking about changing water in a hot afternoon. Common sense will tell one hobbyist to ensure there are minimal swing in such circumstances. Like human, walking out of a cold place to a warm outdoor, our body will take time to adjust. Fish do not adjust that fast.

Well, if one really think that it is necessary to use a heater to adjust the temperature, go ahead. There no wrong or right. There is nothing to argue about.

Some people even use a chiller to maintain cool. So need to argue about that as well ?

Do what u want to do. Let the fish do the talking.
The Matrix
I kept fish in mid western US before. It's a pure nightmare. Morning warn and drop to sub Zero. Water is so hard and changing water is another nightmare. Without the use of heater, really a major problem in winter of sub 10C. A pain in the axx just to think of changing water and travel miles to the nearest Walmart to get some dunno what brand fish food.

But when one visit the real breeding site in China .... just pond and nothing else. Dun expect them to put million watts of energy to heat up the water.

Different places uses different methods. Know the differences, not do what u think is right.
CP
QUOTE(engliang @ Mon, 10 Oct 2005 1:53 pm)
Hmm...I'm just saying if there is a thermostat heater to maintain a constant temp for the goldfishes instead of subjecting them to 7C fluctuation, isn't it better?
*


In Singapore context, I believe that it is better to subject them to a 7 -8 degree daily change in temperature.It makes them stronger.

But, sudden temperature changes such as during a water change should be avoided.
CyberET
QUOTE(engliang @ Mon, 10 Oct 2005 1:53 pm)
Hmm...I'm just saying if there is a thermostat heater to maintain a constant temp for the goldfishes instead of subjecting them to 7C fluctuation, isn't it better?
And too low temp can cause ICH right?

As for changing water, just add the water, and the heater will adjust the temperature accordingly right?

I'm comparing wild-bred fish and domesticated aquarium fish, feel that they don't exhibit simlar characteristics and traits.
I know gfs are coldwater fishes and they can withstand 4 seasons.
However, I don't believe domesticated gfs are as hardy, you can try putting ur goldfish in a bowl, and put it into the fridge, and observe whether it is comfortable.

Just my personal opinions, no offence ok. =)
Me just newbie, of course can't be compared to the experts here lar, me just saying my views.
*


too low temp doesn't cause ICH, sudden temperture change which causes shock is the cause.

china breeds domesticated goldfish in open outdoor ponds, so y would the slight temperature changes in our indoor tank affect much? china still produces hell lots of fishes every year..

as for your fridge question.. u r dropping the temperture by a few degrees rapidly.. a bowl has too little water, no aeration, enclosed enviroment, of course uncomfortable la.

if u r changing 10-20% of course it doesn't matter much, but if u do massive change.. then... but if u only do 10-20% change.. then i would expect to see pop-eye goldfishes.

then again.. as matrix said.. no right or wrong, i just feel its unnecessary, waste of electricity, and... makes my cold-blooded pets hot lol.gif
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