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white horse T1
QUOTE(ranchu8 @ Thu, 21 Jul 2005 6:57 pm)
ps I would disagree with the above; fish alive does not mean fish is not "damaged"

(edit) ps ps the above posts are not intended to be critical of anyone's practice; my questions are raised as I would like to understand the position better as i've never had a Cl test kit; does the kit also test for Chloramine, and if so care to enlighten me on the same queries posed on Cl?
*


bro, "my fish alive" refer to the practice of some odd pplp not using antichlorine and yet fish still big big and swim swim....

the scope of "Damage" definition too wide liao..... and i did not say "damage" hor
ranchu8
QUOTE(white horse T1 @ Thu, 21 Jul 2005 9:18 pm)
the scope of  "Damage" definition too wide liao..... and i did not say "damage" hor
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no, you clearly did not, i did smile.gif and may i ask did i define "damage"?

(edit) ps care to answer my earlier questions in posts#46, and esp post#49??
white horse T1
QUOTE(ranchu8 @ Thu, 21 Jul 2005 6:55 pm)
thanks for your post, but i don't think i'm seeking any textbook or model answer.  I'm asking for what the test kit manual states; unless you are saying it does not state anything concerning the toxicity of chlorine and at what level.  I asked this as i have used a no of different test kits of different brands and  and all their manual discuss the subject of test, eg NH4, NO2, NO3, kH etc and their acceptable level for fish.  I do not have a Cl or chloramine test kit. My other question pertains to the factual or observed test results of the treated water.  May i ask which part pertains to a text book or model answer? smile.gif

(edit) let me ask 1 more question: is the Cl level from tap water above the acceptable level according to the test kit manual?  I trust this is also not a query seeking a textbook or model answer and that the manual discusses the level of Cl and Chloramine  beer1.gif
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alamak why don pop into LFS and buy one and take a look if u seriously think u could derive immerse satisfaction in getting this knowledge.
not many are concern with CL test. i am sure u know why right? only the odd ball do the "KS" stunt ..... like bro matrix....and for that matter , there are also many odd balls around....
\
if matrix say "it is 5 ppm". i wonder if the answer will be satisfying to U.

normal pplp will be concern abt the treatment of chlorine and chlormine" in water for antichlorine solution. But the manual never said the concentration of chlorine and chlormine in a litre of water that can be treated with 1 ml of the antichlorine sol. pplp still use what....and never ask the manufacturer....and ask for lab test result to verify? or should we further pursue the line to ask why pplp like to use one particular expensive brand to prove a particular point perhaps....

i guess the manual for antichlorine probably state how much per litre could treat the anti-chlorine. if the fish is thriving and that would most likely an indication of the effectiveness of the anti-chlorine other factors remain constant.

I don know if there is an "acceptable level" of chlorine in the the CL test kitmanual, but if u belong the school that believe that chlorine is harmful to fish, then this question is not impt anymore. if u belong to a school that believe certain level of chlorine is acceptable, does it mean that u only want to dose anti chlorine sparingly?

most normal pplp are concern the best value money can buy per litre treatment for a anti chlorine.

all the test kits are commercial commodities simplify for the ease of normal users... so they are still indicators that should be taken for reference rather than must be accurate to the exact XXppm for safe or unsafe level.

i just see the thread derailing and should be back to track on the advantage and disadvantage of water changes
CP
If you were to ask me which type of fishes can tolerate chlorine ,besides the longkang fish that drove some many people crazy, its goldfish!!!
white horse T1
i quote the forum posting guidelines just in case i need to surface again to answer more questions hor......

Forum Posting Guidelines
Everyone is entitle to his or her own opinion, and you can choose to agree or disagree. We ask, however, that you be courteous in your disagreement and present your counter-views amicably.

When you choose to take issue with someone else's comments, do so by drawing your attention to the issue and NOT on the individual. Leave personalities out of discussion. Any post that attacks the individual will be deleted and repeat offender's account will be put on moderated posting mode.

No one owes you answers to questions you post. If your post does not receive any replies, most likely it's because your questions have been asked too many times before and answers can be found in the forum when you use the search function to look for them.

Unquote.

notice "most likely" but not limited to other factors also.
i rest my case
ranchu8
QUOTE(white horse T1 @ Thu, 21 Jul 2005 9:39 pm)
alamak why don pop into LFS and buy one and take a look if u seriously think u could derive immerse satisfaction in getting this knowledge. 
not many are concern with CL test.   i am sure u know why right? only the odd ball do the "KS" stunt ..... like bro matrix....and for that matter , there are also many odd balls around.... 
\
if matrix say "it is 5 ppm". i wonder if the answer will be satisfying to U.

normal pplp will be concern abt the treatment of chlorine and chlormine" in water for antichlorine solution.  But the manual never said the concentration of chlorine and chlormine in a litre of water that can be treated with 1 ml of the antichlorine sol.      pplp still use what....and never ask the manufacturer....and ask for lab test result to verify?  or should we further pursue the line to ask why pplp like to use one particular expensive brand to prove a particular point perhaps....

i guess the manual for antichlorine probably state how much per litre could treat the anti-chlorine.  if the fish is thriving and that would most likely an indication of the effectiveness of the anti-chlorine other factors remain constant. 

I don know if there is an "acceptable level" of chlorine in the the CL test kitmanual, but if u belong the school that believe that chlorine is harmful to fish, then this question is not impt anymore.  if u belong to a school that believe certain level of chlorine is acceptable, does it mean that u only want to dose anti chlorine sparingly?

most normal pplp are concern the best value money can buy per litre treatment for a anti chlorine.

all the test kits are commercial commodities simplify for the ease of normal users...  so they are still indicators that should be taken for reference rather than must be accurate to the exact XXppm for safe or unsafe level. 

i just see the thread derailing and should be back to track on the advantage and disadvantage of water changes
*


i asked 3 simple questions concerning Cl, and i receive the above; pls let me know whether your posts provides any answer to my question; i'm not sure of the derailing process ;) pls consider my questions again

(edit) ps just read your last post: pls also consider who is infringing the guidelines posted smile.gif
The Matrix
QUOTE(ranchu8 @ Thu, 21 Jul 2005 6:28 pm)
aiya, i misunderstood the earlier posts, probably not fully awake smile.gif if i may ask then, in the test kit manual, does it say that any chlorine is harmful to fish or is there a min level acceptable? after using antichlorine, is the level down to 0 for chlorine?
*



Now Lawrence, as a high calibre professional like you, something not easy for you to accept or not necessary to for you to accept or even not ready to accept. Dun probe too far from where u know or u dunno or dun even bother to know. If you really want to get scientific answer, then I doubt many can provide you with answers. A vet by profession will be in better position. Here, hobbyists, look at practical means. There is no right or no wrong to each method, and there are a lot of factors in each equation. If one really probe into each factor, RG will become Fear Factor.

Fish dun understand dictionaries of any languages, we human do. Dun define what meant for the fish, we merely refine our methods meant to groom the fish.

Now, back to your questions.
1. Test kits come in various level of accuracy and also different type of measurement results. Most using colormatrix, detect the presence. Some more expensive and professional sets are meant to measure minutes trace using electronic display. Chlorine toxicity to fishes are not the same. Of course, even higher than WHO guideline, human will also be affected. Furthermore, chloramines varies in toxicity in various level of hydrogen ions present in water. Just like ammonia toxicity, it's not a single value or range, but in a table matrix depending on pH and temperature.

Manual does not state any such level, some websites or research institues came out with certain level of toxicity exposure period and acute toxicity level. But those are not intensive goldfish studies, but other type of fishes. A level at our household tap outlet may in some way cause unseen and damaging long term effect. However, these provide a guideline to hobbyists, not necessary one must follow strictly.

From PUB website :
Our drinking water is disinfected by dosing chlorine during treatment processes. Chlorine is used internationally as a disinfecting agent in drinking water. The residual chlorine present in drinking water is in the form of free chlorine or chloramine. In this regard, hobbyists who manage their aquarium system at home may need to take extra precaution if they want to use fresh drinking water in their aquariums. This is because some types of fish may be sensitive to chlorine present in the drinking water.

Simply as long as you are ready to accept the risk, you may not require to waste peanut amount to safeguard your fish.

As for your 2nd question, will the chlorine level down to 0 after using anti-chlorine, I would only said only if u test your water after dosing the antichlorine. The chemical reaction of the chemical used should handle the free chlorine or chloramines well, unless one underdose the required amount for reaction and do not test at all.

Enlightenment depends on oneself. No dictionary can define it.
ranchu8
Matrix, my 3 simple questions quoted from above are as follows:

1. if i may ask then, in the test kit manual, does it say that any chlorine is harmful to fish or is there a min level acceptable?
2. after using antichlorine, is the level down to 0 for chlorine?
3. is the Cl level from tap water above the acceptable level according to the test kit manual?

and Matrix, my reply to your above post:

first, there is nothing for me to accept or not accept: kindly explain what you think i am not accepting; (i do not know whether you are aware of 1 thread I started regarding overdosing of anti-chlorine, and my practice has been to overdose slightly; maybe i shouldn't if there is a min acceptable level of Cl? I should just apply as prescribed)
secondly, what is so scientific with my questions? i think anyone with the Cl test kit and tests his water can provide the answers; no need a vet, if needed then test kit cos will go bankrupt
next, i've stated that i use antichlorine and will do so; [even if you post to say that Cl is harmless smile.gif] so i will be spending peanut money as you termed it

but if you now say that the manual (if any) that comes with the test kit does not say anything about the level of toxicity of Cl, you can simply say this and my questions 1 and 3 are totally not applicable. May i ask which brand of Cl test kit you are using? (btw, my test kits for other substances discuss levels of toxicity)

Enlightenment is partly patience, in listening

(edit) another thing about enlightenment, it is also partly in sharing and giving - and i totally agree with you, much depends on oneself
The Matrix
Matrix, my 3 simple questions quoted from above are as follows:

Then my simple answer ...
1. if i may ask then, in the test kit manual, does it say that any chlorine is harmful to fish ( yes ) or is there a min level acceptable? ( no )
2. after using antichlorine, is the level down to 0 for chlorine? my answer no change as above
3. is the Cl level from tap water above the acceptable level according to the test kit manual? what is acceptable level ?

first, there is nothing for me to accept or not accept: kindly explain what you think i am not accepting;

I quote : something not easy for you to accept or not necessary to for you to accept or even not ready to accept. Since you have nothing to accept or not accept, then there is nothing. I am not as kind, many know me well.

my practice has been to overdose slightly; maybe i shouldn't if there is a min acceptable level of Cl? I should just apply as prescribed ?

Since you have mentioned that "i've never had a Cl test kit", how would you know you have overdose ?

secondly, what is so scientific with my questions? well, I quote again : If you really want to get scientific answer ... so if you do not, then of course you might not need. Is there a problem to this question ?

May i ask which brand of Cl test kit you are using? (btw, my test kits for other substances discuss levels of toxicity)

I do not disclose brands of medication I am using and I do not endorse any brand. Sorry. But I do seek professional advice.
white horse T1
QUOTE(ranchu8 @ Thu, 21 Jul 2005 9:50 pm)
i asked 3 simple questions concerning Cl, and i receive the above; pls let me know whether your posts provides any answer to my question; i'm not sure of the derailing process  pls consider my questions again

just read your last post: pls also consider who is infringing the guidelines posted smile.gif
*



this time i extract it out and

quote

" No one owes you answers to questions you post. ..........
unquote

nobody says "infringing". but i respectfully request u to stop pressing for answers to yr questions.
goldrush
Dear ranchu8,

Both Matrix and T1 whitehorse have thoroughly dealt on your queries and if you still deemed them unsatisfactory kindly seek further clarification on your technical aspects from the relevant manufacturers or authorities of the said products.Many of us here (as Matrix has pointed)are mere hobbyists and not very scientifically or technically inclined.It is not possible for us to know each and every product in the market ,much less tried every single of these,for we are not masters of the Universe.Let me remind you that by not utilizing a product doesn’t mean the product is useless and using it doesn’t necessarily mean endorsing it either.By sheer laziness,enthusiam or whatever reasons,a hobbyist should live by his/her action or non action in his fish keeping.Guidelines and rules are for us to follow but being human ,we tend to err to break them at times(infact many times)Nobody should point the finger if something goes wrong.We live by our own action and nobody owe us anything not even a reply if your question goes unanswered(as brought up by Whitehorse)So let us keep the forum peaceful and move on from here.Incidentally the original thread reads with water changes as a post, so please stick to it(I thank Whitehorse for the reminder)

goldrush
ranchu8
Dear Goldrush

I do not understand the necessity of the above post which starts of "if" i still deem the answers unsatisfactory. I would like to say I am fully satisfied with Matrix's last post on my queries (though i may have a reply on something else), but even if I'm not satisfied I can't require him to satisfy me smile.gif Shouldn't time be given for me to respond to Matrix's post before it justifies the above post? Further, I'm not asking Matrix concerning all test kits available nor to endorse any product. Neither am i pointing any finger at anyone's practice. Did i in anyway point my finger at you in my posts #15 and #18? Lastly, I believe the posts on the topic on this thread concluded early and polls have been requested in connection with water change, and questions resulting. I may reply to Whitehorse and Matrix in a different post.
The Matrix
I believe you are doing fine. Maybe a few questions in your mind, but these should not hinder you from keeping fish the same way you are keeping right now. Keep those questions in mind and maybe one fine day, you will get a better answer then what you are receiving the past 2 days.

To be fair, not every questions can be answer appropriately. Ain't no court room here nor any supreme judge up there. Be prepare to agree to disagree. Be ready to expect the unexpected.

Stay cool and go back study the fish. No matter what we do, what we preach, what we discuss, utimately as I always said "let the fish do the talking". My sifu will sure tell his students "dun talk rock, show me your fish". yes.gif
jhansolo
QUOTE(white horse T1 @ Thu, 21 Jul 2005 6:40 pm)
getting the optimum content of chlorine will probably allow the fish to thrive in the optimum condition.  the no - antichlorine method is probably pushing the chlorine tolerance level to the extreme.  unless one is doing PHD on goldfish tolerance to chlorine, then it will be worth the while to know the mean and then test the 2 extreme lvl both side.
*



This thread is getting me confused ... as far as my understanding stays it is zero chlorine ... am I right?
goldrush
Dear Ranchu8

Sorry for not giving you ample time to ponder over Matrix's reply.No hard feelings ok?

beer1.gif beer1.gif beer1.gif

regards

goldrush
LoboChan
Here is my input .. (fm a lazy hobbist)..

How about a little poll on water change :

How much water do you change each time ?
80%

How often do you change
As and when neccesary, usually monthly or 1.5month..hehehe (I know this is bad)

Do you EVER experience causualties after water change ?
used to, but not now when I use overnight water...

What chemicals do you add during or after water change ?
Lots... salt, antichorine, black water, anti diseases prevention, bacteria powder (dunno the term for this)..

Any observation on the fish after water change ?
depends on fishes, amt of chemicals used,... some remain sedated for like 1 hour... or some can be immediately active n happy w new water...
CP
QUOTE(LoboChan @ Fri, 22 Jul 2005 1:52 pm)
How often do you change
As and when neccesary, usually monthly or 1.5month..hehehe (I know this is bad)
*


Partly because of this


QUOTE(LoboChan @ Fri, 22 Jul 2005 1:52 pm)
What chemicals do you add during or after water change ?
Lots... salt, antichorine, black water, anti diseases prevention, bacteria powder (dunno the term for this)..
*


And this


QUOTE(LoboChan @ Fri, 22 Jul 2005 1:52 pm)
Any observation on the fish after water change ?
depends on fishes, amt of chemicals used,... some remain sedated for like 1 hour...
*


Thats why you experience this .
ranchu8
Hi Matrix and Goldrush, all's well and fine; a friendly debate once a while will thicken the friendship smile.gif thanks
The Matrix
QUOTE(LoboChan @ Fri, 22 Jul 2005 1:52 pm)
Here is my input .. (fm a lazy hobbist)..

80%, As and when neccesary, usually monthly or 1.5month..hehehe, used to, but not now when I use overnight water... salt, antichorine, black water, anti diseases prevention, bacteria powder and ......

depends on fishes, amt of chemicals used,... some remain sedated for like 1 hour... or some can be immediately active n happy w new water...
*


I really hope you are not doing this to your Japan ranchu. I keep my fingers cross between my legs.

Suggest that you try not to use black water (keep it for tropical fish) and change water more frequently. How about once every 14 days for a start ?
CyberET
i'm a lazy hobbist.. 80% once a month for my kois..
filter? once a year.. biggrin.gif
goldrush
QUOTE(CyberET @ Sat, 23 Jul 2005 3:35 am)
i'm a lazy hobbist.. 80% once a month for my kois..
filter? once a year.. biggrin.gif
*




If you are lazy wat am I

Never change/wash filters for seven odd years!......(koi pond)

IPB Image
The Matrix
QUOTE(goldrush @ Sat, 23 Jul 2005 8:03 am)
If you are lazy  wat am I

Never change/wash filters for seven odd years!......(koi pond)
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Seven Years of Itch ....

rolleyes.gif
goldrush
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:11 am)
Seven Years of Itch ....

rolleyes.gif
*




Seven lonely days make a HOLE weak

Seventh lunar month make many Chinese freak

Seven filthy years certainly make me itch.......



thx for the reminder Matrix,care if u can scratch my back.. biggrin.gif

IPB Image
felinefrend
How much water do you change each time ?
2/3 - 3/4 of the tank

How often do you change water ?
1ft tank = 2X per week
2ft tank = 1x per week

Do you EVER experience causualties after water change ?
water is cloudly in the 2 ft as I have gravels. once that settles down, water's clear.

no change in the 1ft tank.

What chemicals do you add during or after water change ?
anti-chlorine - Aquasafe is added to the pail/container of water BEFORE putting it into the tank.

occasionally salt.

Any observation on the fish after water change ?
once the water filter and heater turns on and all the familar sounds, the fishes are back to normal - asking for attention.
The Matrix
QUOTE(felinefrend @ Mon, 25 Jul 2005 1:53 pm)
1ft tank = 2X per week
2ft tank = 1x per week

water is cloudly in the 2 ft as I have gravels. once that settles down, water's clear.
*


Good job feline !

The formula seems like IQ ... hahahahah what if it's a 3ft tank ...

anyway, do you stire the gravel a lot during water change ? what type of gravel are you using ?
LoboChan
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Sat, 23 Jul 2005 12:16 am)
I really hope you are not doing this to your Japan ranchu. I keep my fingers cross between my legs.

Suggest that you try not to use black water (keep it for tropical fish) and change water more frequently. How about once every 14 days for a start ?
*



Hahahaha!!
For my Jap ranchu... my recipe for a 2 feet tank is
- a sprinkling of salt
- a drop or two of Fish Guard
- a drop or two of blackwater

W take ur advice on the blackwater, and hope to get the discipline to change water every 14 days... laugh.gif
ranchu8
QUOTE(white horse T1 @ Fri, 22 Jul 2005 8:35 am)
this time i extract it out and

quote

" No one owes you answers to questions you post. ..........
unquote

nobody says "infringing".  but i respectfully request u to stop pressing for answers to yr questions.
*



it's been some time smile.gif but since i've the time, i feel like it and i don't like loose ends: as the saying goes, a text without its context is a pretext; surface if you wish
ranchu8
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Fri, 22 Jul 2005 1:33 am)
Since you have mentioned that "i've never had a Cl test kit", how would you know you have overdose ?

secondly, what is so scientific with my questions? well, I quote again : If you really want to get scientific answer ... so if you do not, then of course you might not need. Is there a problem to this question ?

May i ask which brand of Cl test kit you are using? (btw, my test kits for other substances discuss levels of toxicity)

I do not disclose brands of medication I am using and I do not endorse any brand. Sorry. But I do seek professional advice.
*



i am not aware of test kits testing negative results; i was referring to overdose in relation to prescribed amount based on label.

the problem is not with the question itself ... let me consider the way it was phrased in its context smile.gif

the prerogative not to disclose brands used of course is yours, endorsement is not the issue but i believe i understand the issue. Incidentally, endorsement is like when a very respectable hobbyist was prepared to share that he uses tetra test kit for testing nitrates because he found it effective compared to other brands.
ranchu8
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:46 am)
Keep those questions in mind and maybe one fine day, you will get a better answer then what you are receiving the past 2 days.

To be fair, not every questions can be answer appropriately. Ain't no court room here nor any supreme judge up there. Be prepare to agree to disagree. Be ready to expect the unexpected.
*



the answers given in your previous post were to the point and answered the questions fully and appropriately, thank you. no need no judge and it should be clear that i look forward to agree to disagree, but will challenge people who skirt the issue; and of course the unexpected is an icing smile.gif
The Matrix
QUOTE(ranchu8 @ Thu, 28 Jul 2005 9:34 pm)
the answers given in your previous post were to the point and answered the questions fully and appropriately, thank you. no need no judge and it should be clear that i look forward to agree to disagree, but will challenge people who skirt the issue; and of course the unexpected is an icing smile.gif
*


Notice these few days when the questions are asked correctly, a lot of answers are coming out ? No need to wait a few days or lead u around the bushes or sit down lim-kopi or sell u some products. Just experience, clear and concise experience.

Dun challenge, just raise your concern. Here u dun win a war, just gain the knowledge. Go slow, it takes years.

Now, u have got quite a number of fish recently .... can u tell any differences between them ?
ranchu8
friendly challenge only smile.gif unless the person wants to skirt with open war or guerilla war beer1.gif

on my fishes, i have difficulty saying cos the quality of different fishes i have in each bloodline differs somewhat; i can see differences in my fishes but i am unable to say it's due to bloodline at this stage - like my Kashino, i have a nice long one (with a defective and not strong tail) and a fat short one ... hmmm ... let me observe more ... the colour (except for 2 which i bought not too long ago)(don't mean the position of the colour but its intensity) is turning out well for mine but growth may be slow ... also let me say this, i was very sad that my best developed fish, a Sekiya which i had great hopes for died - long stout body with a great great shape 4 point tail and head also developing well, colour also good--- sigh and sigh ... probably due to a bird as its neck was slightly fractured and another cbr was missing, had a metal fencing but didn't cover the tub that day - er people, no need to shoot me for this, am disappointed enough - i particularly had great hopes for it as when i bought my Sekiya, i was one of the last to buy them and i thought it was developing greatly, sad sad ... also off topic already better not talk too much
The Matrix
QUOTE(ranchu8 @ Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:59 pm)
sad sad ... also off topic already better not talk too much
*


U know what, now u're talking fish . hahahahaha.

U know why I ask u this question ... can u tell any differences between them ?

Back to the future July 15.
ranchu8
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Fri, 29 Jul 2005 11:30 pm)
U know what, now u're talking fish . hahahahaha.

U know why I ask u this question ... can u tell any differences between them ?

Back to the future July 15.
*



;) i know but the issue there different mah ... (you sure i won't get tekan for being off topic? smile.gif )
The Matrix
QUOTE(ranchu8 @ Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:02 am)
;) i know but the issue there different mah ... (you sure i won't get tekan for being off topic? smile.gif )
*


dun worry. that's the fun of forum. from 1 topic can switch to another. too focus on a topic can kill brain juice. laugh.gif

Lemon lime juice on me ... gathering.gif

almost 1 liao. still dun head down to hypo talk and see fish ?
CP
QUOTE(ranchu8 @ Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:02 am)
;) i know but the issue there different mah ... (you sure i won't get tekan for being off topic? smile.gif )
*


Start a new topic and post ma.Yet to see your fishes leh. drool.gif
goldrush
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Sat, 30 Jul 2005 12:30 pm)
...
almost 1 liao. still dun head down to hypo talk and see fish ?
*



you mean hypertalk and buy fish!

IPB Image
ranchu8
nothing more to talk on my fish smile.gif , no d camera what to do? don't even know whether i know how to post photo even if buy one; not savvy la; no time to go for talk, anyone can update??
goldfish8
I hear that if the new water is too cold during the water change, this may be fatal to the goldfish. What should the temperature of the new water be? How far away from room temperature can the water be?
bennibrave
How much I change?
- 50% on tuesday & thursday, 90% on saturday
- fish is housed in 8 liter bucket temporary and released back into water after that

What do I add
- Anti chlorine/chloramine only. Tap water added straight into tank.
-sometimes 0.02% salinity salt

Check pH b4 and after change?
-not really

Any casualties
- No.

Fish listless?
- No.
- But notice fish can get a bit blur especially after 90% water change, the just stay stationary as if trying to adapt to the new water condition

Fish more lively?
- Yes but only if its in the next morning after the night water change
- goldfish less active at night

cheers ben
tjwemery
I change 15% every two days. It is easier for me that way because that is just one bucket.

By the looks of it I need to change more, I'm going t o try 30% every two - three days.
goldfish8
Has anyone used/heard of Tetra Easy Balance w/ Nitraban. Here is a product description : http://www.tetra-fish.com/sites/tetrafish/...1276&cid=74. I know that water changes need to be done but does this really work? Has anyone used it? Recommend it?
cutedonut
Soon I'm going to get 2 lionheads for a 30 gallon.
If people are doing 90% weekly changes,
do I even need to cycle the tank?
Right now I am starting a fishless cycle
but now I am confused about the whole
purpose of cycling and now with goldfish.
unsure.gif
cutedonut
For the Tetra Easy Balance I found this:
aquariacentral.com/forums/printthread.php?t=76741

I can't explain it though because I
am new to keeping fish

wtf someone is rude to edit my msg like that

Venus
Water changes shouldn't be causing the nitrogen cycle to spike in your tank; even heavy water changes. If you have an uncycled tank with fish in it; you perform daily water changes of 15% to 20% which allows for the cycling.

It's my guess that you need heavier colonies of friendly bacteria. I'll bet you've got a top loading filtering system. These types of filters are actually designed for tropical fish, not goldfish. Goldfish waste sits on the bottom of the tank; this is the food source of the friendly bugs.

Try a pond pump; I highly recommend them. They're very affordable; sit on the bottom of the tank, so the friendly bug colonies will grow rapidly. Pond pumps provide increased surface action which oxygenate the water and reduce harmful bacteria.

Folks with top loading filters in goldfish tanks have problems with pH levels because of low surface action; oxygen levels and bacteria, and they have problems keeping their tanks fully cycled.

Here is further information on sizing pond pumps.

http://www.goldfish-emergency.com/viewpage.php?page_id=22

If we're going to successfully keep are goldfish in aquariums, we must make a few compromises.
ricardoms
How much water do you change each time ?

something between 30% and 40% every 3-4 days

How often do you change water ?

depending in my free time...every 3 to 5 days...


Do you EVER experience causualties after water change ?

Never....


What chemicals do you add during or after water change ?

None...

Any observation on the fish after water change ?

Yes and fishes look "normal", nothing strange..
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