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CP
Hi Wesbro,

It is not their duty to inform, they already have a website indicating the water parameters which insofar has complied to the WHO guidelines for drinking water.

Do note that they are supplying potable drinking water - straight from the tap.Not catering for the aqua industry/hobby.

Different species of fish are sensitive to different water parameters.For eg, marine LFS or hobbyists keeping invertebrates know very well that invertebrates are very sensitive to nitrates.Nitrates greater than 12pmm considered harmful.WHO guideline for nitrates in drinking water is under 50ppm, our tap water nitrates in Singapore not more than 15ppm.It is the duty of the LFS / hobbyist to know what PUB is supplying.

But I do know that they provide updates to more established entities if there are any change, such as the Singapore Koi Club.
goldrush
The reason why we switch to chloramine is becos it is not only more stable but more importantly Cl have been found to be carcinogenic when it react with organics in the water .Here is detailed review on chloramine for those hard core fans who love to digest facts and figures and the number of ways to remove it.

http://www.gewater.com/library/tp/813_Chloramines_.jsp
The Matrix
Anyway, I was told that some people might have over-reacted to this chloramine issue. Com'on, it's years since the implementation and nothing new at all. Unless the hobbyist is "brand-new" to keeping fish, otherwise, there is no alarm to it.

1st of all, chloramine only make up a small portion to your "misery" of fish keeping. And also the amount is too small to test using our common test kit. If the concentration is really small, colormetric test result will depends on your eye sight. Unless one is super rich and dunno what to do with the Lottery winnings, then open a lab to test. So just a simple, professional removal will do the whole job. I also know some install those super expensive carbon filter in household tap ... drink liao very healthy. Whatever...

2ndly, does one really need to know the real concentration ? Not at all ! All a hobbyist care is to ensure the proper removal thru a simple test result. Nothing more than that. No matter how much in the water for our fish to survive, think of what you are drinking into your stomach. Dun waste time dwell over it.

lastly, dun rush to react to all these information. It's never too late.
The Matrix
Another summary on the possible ways to treat ...

1. Activated Carbon (AC) - Price varies, depends on quality. Ideally, AC is very good agent to treat Chloramines and other contaminants in water. Most can last relatively long, a Kg probably last around 12 wks for a 3ft tank with weekly 90% water change in our local context. Some higher quality can last longer but require test for assurance.

2. Zeolite - superior chemical product but relatively higher price. Chemically structured, it's much better than AC. However between AC and Zeolite for our aquarium purposes, AC will work better due to the strong adsorption properties for Chloramines, Chlorine and Ammonia.

3. Resin - Very expensive and I think not to go too far into synthetic chemistry.

Now, there are 2 problems with these products ...

1. to have an adsorption process in our aquarium, either use a very expensive and reliable brand of AC or Zeolite. Adsorption process is not immediate as bonding of ions will take time. Water flowing to these media must be slow, very slow to allow time for the bonding process.

2. some of the contaminates can be good for our type of fish. It is a known reaction that the usage of adsorping media can have a softening effect on the water. It will be good to stablise the pH by mean of kH buffering. However, adding gH will only reduce the media life span.


Clear enough ?

And finally the infamous Sodium Thiosulphate comes into picture. It's a clear colorless monoclinic crystal. There are 2 grading - technical and photo grade (concentration different). Also know as Hypo for many RG friends here.

For our aquarium purposes, it's the cheapest dechlorinator and extremely easy to use. A Kg of the crystals only cost around S$4-5 (refer to RG Lobang) and can last many months, probably a year if one only has a single tank and regular weekly water change. Buying in bulk can be cheaper. Usually comes in sack of 25kg or 50Kg. Sorry sensitive to say how much but it's definitely a lot cheaper than u get in a kg bag.

There is no secret about Hypo and we have also discuss this in the past few days. The only disadvantage is the ammonia byproduct after the breaking of the chloramines bonding. So a good cycled filtration system is a must to mininmize the risk. Or one could use small amount of AC during water change. Whatever suits one best.

The only risk is overdose of hypo. It is best to do a chlorine test. The amount to use for our local water is very little.

What else did I miss ? Doc wanna add ?

Hope that hobbyists out there dun get conned. Dun let people dig your pocket out selling u magic products.

TGIF !
goldrush
TGIF


Thank god it's Finish(hopefully)
You just put the icing on the cake.Matrix Wat else can I add?You have thoroughly dealt in depth on this issue for the past few days and it left for all in this forum to decide for themselves what is best to counter the effect of Chlorine/Chloramine during their water changes.With that I rest my case..........................



goldrush
The Matrix
QUOTE(goldrush @ Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:21 pm)
TGIF
Thank god it's Finish(hopefully)

With that I rest my case..........................
*


Still can go on if I want to. This "very senior" fellow here also use hypo and commercial products.

Add cherries, mango, pineapple and a few candles to make this fruit cake more "fruitful" for many to share. Bloody rare that I wrote so much.

must go home face the wall ponder ponder liao.
ranchu8
wah, Matrix power reply good_very.gif

understand as you say, better to use Cl test to avoid overdose - but may i ask how to gauge approximately, amount of thiosulphate to use for how much water? does thiosulphate have a use by date? what if it gets a bit moist cos not kept properly?
The Matrix
QUOTE(ranchu8 @ Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:33 pm)
wah, Matrix power reply  good_very.gif

understand as you say, better to use Cl test to avoid overdose - but may i ask how to gauge approximately, amount of thiosulphate to use for how much water?  does thiosulphate have a use by date? what if it gets a bit moist cos not kept properly?
*


Keep in dry place, use silica, seal if unused, buy a dry box, what ever one can think of to keep a few dollars item dry... No expire date. But once moist, very difficult to use and judge the weight anymore.

How much to use har ... for 100L, just a small 1.5 gram will do more than enough. Already overdose liao. For our local water hor.

How to gauge har ? sweatingbullets.gif
Test after 1gram dosage and u will know still have chlorine or not lor. But the test kit might show very very faint tint of yellow, very difficult to see if u test in the night.

kekekekeke 1Kg enough for 100 tonnes of water or around 3 years supplies for a 6ft tank with weekly 90% water change.
ranchu8
Thanks Matrix for the very useful info smile.gif
Rooney10
sry guys for bringing up dis thread again. bt den again, i wna be sure of whut im doing. gna start keeping goldfishes again after a break of a few yrs and not really sure abt the changing water part.

hmm, ive got 2 questions here.

1) does it make a difference whether to take water from tap(the one we drink from) or the toilet tap/sink?

2) say i add the water to my new tank and add the anti chroline thingie to the tank already. and den the nx week, i wna do a partial 50% change, i just add the anti chlorine to the new water that im adding in ryt? and is it harmful if theres too much anti chlroine in the tank? cus if u guys nawmean, after adding the new water(with the anti chlorine), it is sure to mix with the old water in the tank and the anti chlorine content is sure to rise.

haha tt was the best way i could post my queires. hope to get answers as fast as possible guys. ((: appreicate the help.
goldrush
QUOTE(Rooney10 @ Fri, 15 Sep 2006 12:08 am) *

sry guys for bringing up dis thread again. bt den again, i wna be sure of whut im doing. gna start keeping goldfishes again after a break of a few yrs and not really sure abt the changing water part.

hmm, ive got 2 questions here.

1) does it make a difference whether to take water from tap(the one we drink from) or the toilet tap/sink?

2) say i add the water to my new tank and add the anti chroline thingie to the tank already. and den the nx week, i wna do a partial 50% change, i just add the anti chlorine to the new water that im adding in ryt? and is it harmful if theres too much anti chlroine in the tank? cus if u guys nawmean, after adding the new water(with the anti chlorine), it is sure to mix with the old water in the tank and the anti chlorine content is sure to rise.

haha tt was the best way i could post my queires. hope to get answers as fast as possible guys. ((: appreicate the help.



For a start please DO NOT USE SMS LANGUAGE......It really irks on reading

Answer to question 1) no difference.............Unless someone just did his/her business and you need to change in the midst of pungent and obnoxious gas

Answer to question 2....No harm in overdosaging unless you pour the entire bottle
Rooney10
haha. okok thanks for your help goldrush. will go a long way and appreciate your effort in replying. (: till next time.
The Matrix
check your piping. If your house only got a single water piping from the PUB, then not a problem. If you are staying in some places where uses industrial water, then be careful which tap to use. I am not too sure any estates still using duo-piping system.

anti-chlorine is best not to exceed 3 times the recommeded dosage. Unless u are using high chlorinated water. If you regularly smell chlorine from your tap, best that you do a test and get a proper dosage for your household source.
CP
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Fri, 15 Sep 2006 6:18 pm) *

. I am not too sure any estates still using duo-piping system.


As far as I know, residential estates has never used a duo piping system.All water supply to residential are potable water.
lnicky
Sorry I am a newbie but how quick does the water conditioner de-chlorinate the water? I usually wait for 1-2 hours before transferring the new water to the tank. Is this enough?
bekko
Sodium thiosulfate (dechlor) reacts almost immediately. As soon as the crystals are dissolved and the water is mixed, the job is done. In addition to using dechlor, aerating the tap water for an hour or two before exposing the fish to it is always benificial. It helps equalize the temperature, drives off excess carbon dioxide, saturates oxygen, etc.

-steve
Kinder
Hi Nicky,

Dont know what dechlorinate your using....but i suggest you use a liquid one than powdered ones...i believe it works more rapid.

I use Seachem's Prime...its concentrated and does 200ltr in 5ml. And more so dams here in Aus are at low levels...there could be more heavy chemicals in the tap water. I personally feel seachem prime is doing a good job for me...i used seachem powdered de-chlor ....and had trouble with my fishes after water change ...not so anymore.

i give 10-20mins....time and then run my canister filter, and then wait till 40-60mins before i start putting my fish back in the tank....this 40-60mins give my canister filter time to suck in any floating debris . (very important that you aerate your tank....i do that rite after i put my dechlor )

kinder

OH if any bros good at Chemistry....

Seachem Prime...says it detoxifies nitrite and nitrate,
do anyone know to what nitrate&nitrite changed to...?
CyberET
it works very quickly.

its also better to run your canister asap, as static water loses oxygen very quickly, and your bb dies
goldrush
It has been universally accepted by most that sodium thiosulphate is a very safe additive to use to neutralise chlorine.Infact up to 100ppm added may not cause any visible detrimental effect.But a word of caution here.Na2SO3 per se may not have direct harm to fish however if the excess thiosulphate(not use to mop up the free Chlorine) is allowed to decompose in the presence of oxygen then a harmful by product may surface which may kill your fish.........

Initial reaction in the presenceof Chlorine,the aqueos thiosulphate comprises of the following outcome


Na2S2O3 + Cl2 + H2O >>>>> Na2SO4 + S + 2HCl

However if Chlorine is absent,and especially in alkaline condition(our goldfish pH condition),the following may occur


Na2S2O3 + H2O>>>>>>> Na2SO4 + H2S

HYDROGEN SULPHIDE IS VERY TOXIC TO ALL FISHES

So it is true that sodium thiosulphate is very safe for your fishes and probaby will not kill your fishes but instead we have forgotten the decomposition product that did kill them.

I tend to use crystals for that matter to neutralise the free chlorine as stock solution(due to limited shelf life)may have decomposed to harmful products which we may not be awared.Commercial products with chelating agents added may retard or neutralise any decomposition could be a safer bet for the uninitiated.

2 crystals for every 60ml is my recommended dose


Some chemistry lesson on a Sunday?????
CP
QUOTE(goldrush @ Sun, 16 Dec 2007 8:32 pm) *

2 crystals for every 60ml is my recommended dose

I no understand. uhm.gif
2 crystals for every 60ml OF WHAT???? Tank water, or typo (not hypo) error?

This is the first time that I have come across any figures for dosage or overdosing of hypo.A previous discussion here on overdosing but yielded no figures as well:
http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.ph...ic=2185&hl=
CP
A little correction to my post above.Matrix did previously mentioned of a dosage of 1.5g for 100l of water.

QUOTE(The Matrix @ Fri, 29 Jul 2005 11:46 pm) *

How much to use har ... for 100L, just a small 1.5 gram will do more than enough. Already overdose liao. For our local water hor.
goldrush
QUOTE(CP @ Sun, 16 Dec 2007 8:52 pm) *

I no understand. uhm.gif
2 crystals for every 60ml OF WHAT???? Tank water, or typo (not hypo) error?

This is the first time that I have come across any figures for dosage or overdosing of hypo.A previous discussion here on overdosing but yielded no figures as well:
http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.ph...ic=2185&hl=



In our local context I use 2 crystals for every 60 ml of new water(tap water) added rolleyes.gif
CP
I think you got hypo typo error.Do you mean 60 litres of water NOT 60ml.
goldrush
blush-big.gif blush-big.gif blush-big.gif

you are right it should be 60 litres and not 60 mls
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