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CP
Topic start for purpose of discussion to the announcement made here:
http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3065
====

3 cheers for the organisers !! good_very.gif

And, are my eyes playing tricks on me or do I see Geert Coppens coming to town?!! yes.gif

Certainly an event to look forward to!!
Ark Royal
I would like to take this opportunity to wish all participating members the very best of luck in the forth coming show


Craig Smith good_very.gif good_very.gif good_very.gif
CP
HOI !!!!

Everyone shy or what?Why so quiet? dntknw.gif:
I remembered last year threads pertaining to comps were hot topics- excitement,anticipation,discussions,questions,arguments etc, can argue until show statistical bell curve. lol.gif

It was kinda lull in the goldfish scene after the Yuhua comp....come to think of it, almost a year already.Let's hope the atmosphere can be liven up by the impending 2nd Ranchu comp, so who is taking part??

I start the ball rolling.No need to show your fish.Just indicate your interest.For me:

1 Cat B SV.The one in my current avatar.

Next please..............
goldrush
Maybe Everyone is still........................................

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The Matrix
QUOTE(goldrush @ Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:27 pm)
Maybe Everyone is still........................................
*



trying to book air ticket to thailand to buy fish from the judge stock har ...

CP so fast booking space liao har.
I still considering to put in my chinese fishes or not. sigh ... non-refundable $30 leh ... even CMP also got refund policy.

Likely 2 Cat A, 1 Cat B.
desireless
No fish to send leh.... cry.gif

But probably sending 2 CAT A SVR. Will send my "Ah Wong"

Send multiple fishes got discount or not? biggrin.gif $50 for 2 fishes can or not? lol.gif
desireless
Actually I was waiting for Seacucmber to start the ball rolling.

He always got EXTRA-ORDINARY ranchus to send for every competition hysterical.gif
VRC
DEAR RANCHU HOBBYISTS,

During the last competition, we realised many ranchu were sick and suffering. And we believe it was mainly due to the preparation work was not done enough or properly. Hence we have gathered and derived some notes after consulting the experts and VRC wish to share this information with all the hobbyist.

Click here
http://www.vandaranchuclub.com/prepareFish.htm

Hope you can find it useful for preparing your precious ranchu for the competition with minimal risk.

VRC
*Please note that the information is applicable for both TV and SV.
CHLeong
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Wed, 16 Nov 2005 12:39 am)
trying to book air ticket to thailand to buy fish from the judge stock har ...

*



hysterical.gif I like this joke.
Rgds
CHLeong
CP
SV kakis only ??
What about TVRs?So many discussions over the past year, how to appreciate TVR, how to select TVR,how to breed TVR.........now's the chance for your showcase.

David, as a moderator in TVR discussion and local breeder, you must lead the way........... biggrin.gif
goldrush
Don't know how to categorise this under SVR or TVR?




lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif

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white horse T1
can sent those cast in stone? dntknw.gif:

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ranchu8
QUOTE(VRC @ Wed, 16 Nov 2005 8:37 am)

hi VRC, i understand that the advice is ** Please note that this is just a general guidance to prepare and quarantine a competition fish. There may be some variance and difference from other recommendations. Hence it is still critical to observe your ranchu closely and give relevant corrective actions **

Is the page recommending 0.7% salt and if so, is it too high as a general guide for healthy Ranchu esp for young ones ?
VRC
QUOTE(ranchu8 @ Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:08 pm)
hi VRC, i understand that the advice is ** Please note that this is just a general guidance to prepare and quarantine a competition fish. There may be some variance and difference from other recommendations. Hence it is still critical to observe your ranchu closely and give relevant corrective actions **

Is the page recommending 0.7% salt and if so, is it too high as a general guide for healthy Ranchu esp for young ones ?
*



HELLO RANCHU8,

Thanks for your FIRST question to VRC.

We can only put it as a general notes, else we may need time to compile one full list about BBR, Tosai, Nisai and Oya.....SV how? TV how? Got ill how? Got this?......

The intention of this GENERIC guide is to share with the hobbyists some experience we had because it was heart pain to see the participating ranchu suffer.

Yes, you maybe right.
You can set at 0.5% salt level first. If you think it is not effective enough, you can increase the level gradually. Or vice versa. I think a successful quarantine depend very much on you. What we learnt that even different breeders have their own ways.

In fact, our experience with several quanrantine were mostly young fish (economical) from Japan and Thailand. Anyway, this is just our knowledge to share. It is up to you to decide. I think there is no hard and fast rule for such matter. CLOSE OBSERVATION for RIGHT corrective measures is still much very important factor.

Thanks for your good question.

VRC
ranchu8
Thanks VRC
white horse T1
VRC

for curosity sake, what are the do/don't if the participants see that his/her fish is unwell (i.e could he/she add medication like salt , oxycure, yellow powder or what not? could he/she request for fresh water change or add home brought water?)

and what grounds will he have the right to remove the fish if it is deemed in critical health despite following the preparation regime.
top_view_ranchu
QUOTE(CP @ Wed, 16 Nov 2005 8:57 pm)
SV kakis only ??
What about TVRs?So many discussions over the past year, how to appreciate TVR, how to select TVR,how to breed TVR.........now's the chance for your showcase.

David, as a moderator in TVR discussion and local breeder, you must lead the way........... biggrin.gif
*



Ah Lau,
Thanks for the big arrow! salute.gif

I'm personally surprise with the slow and lacking of interest over TVR cat here? dntknw.gif: We've seen many beautiful fish throughout the year, and I suppose everyone is expecting a good number from RG. thinking.gif Moreover, look who's the judge! happydance.gif I already planning for a nice cosy place for our POT of welcome COFFEE! partytime2.gif:

As for my own keeping, sad to say, none is of show quality! sad.gif
Anyway, frankly, I do not feel comfortable with the grouping by size. When I tell some that my Tosai in general are about 12cm, they claim their's are much smaller. Looking at the grouping, I even have 1 Tosai that will be categorised as an Oya? ohmy.gif
My self bred 3 months old babies will probably end up in the Nisai cat by then, which in term is not wrong since they are born in 2005, but then, why is there a Junior Tosai and Tosai Cat? dntknw.gif:

Above are strictly my personal opinion and I'm not speaking on behalf of RG. yes.gif

Regards,
David Hou
VRC
QUOTE(white horse T1 @ Thu, 17 Nov 2005 10:18 am)
VRC

for curosity sake, what are the do/don't if the participants see that his/her fish is unwell (i.e could he/she add medication like salt , oxycure, yellow powder or what not?  could he/she request for fresh water change or add home brought water?)

and what grounds will he have the right to remove the fish if it is deemed in critical health despite following the preparation regime.
*



HELLO WHITE HORSE T1,

Like last competition, we will prepare and check the water for every participating fish.
As mentioned in the rules and regulations, the participants MUST use this prepared water. Else it is a big mess if everyone start doing these and that during the competition. And the judges will have hard time evaluating fish in different water colors! We need a control here.

Like last competition we did. We spotted about 2 to 3 fish were pretty bad condition. Immediately we called the owners to come and take the fish back for urgent treatment.

Even the condition turns up to be very serious during the show, the releasing of fish will still need to go through the orgainsers and the judges for final decision.
I hope you can understand what we trying to do for the competition.

Thanks for your valid question.

VRC
The Matrix
Well done David ! Now u see the problem. Give your fish a try lah. Show grade or not, let the show decide. peace.gif

But since it's Jan 2006, any tosai now will be nisai. Not wrong leh. I would think most this year fish will be around 14-16cm by then. So competiting in the Nisai class should not be a real problem. With so many Ishikawa-san, Kashino-san, Mondem-san and Yatomi fish imported this year, I would say this show will be interesting and a good show down in nisai category.

Well, let see any of those last year 5 winning fish of each cat entering the show, if they intend to look for the 1st Singapore Ranchu Yokozuna.
CP
The issue of classification by length instead of age was hotly debated last year;
http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2003

Yeah, with me in the fray,arguing until the cows come home........(come to think of it,I did not even take part in the TV category,so just plain kaypoh hysterical.gif )In the end after the competition has ended it was proven that this method is one that suits our local condition better, taking into account the time of the competition and the so-called 'professionalism' of local hobbyists.No one cried foul,no one said it was unfair.

David,give it a try.For the fun of it.Or do you already have something in mind... whistle.gif
mountain
The rules are set. Pls follow as indicated by VRC. Don't go bumping around on actual day and claim in RG discussion says your fish should be competing in the other category. Like all competitions, the judging panels decision is final.
The Matrix
66 days to go and fish still growing. So whoever submitting make sure dun put wrong category. Unless u very sure yr fish won't grow further than the 3 size-limited top view category ... shiok.gif

Actually I also worry about the Cat A SVR entry. bo tai bo ji grow a bit more hit the Cat B ... then my fish become the smallest in the whole cat .... sian 1/2.
CP
In sports such as boxing and weightlifting, it is very common to find competitiors dieting so that they fall into the lighter category, or putting on extra weight if the heavier category has weaker opponents.Perhaps you can do the same for your fish?? lol.gif Or maybe snip off its tail. hysterical.gif

Anyway, from closing date to comp date there are still 5 weeks.Fish may still grow,obviously.So just leave to the organisers to re-categorise.

In fact,during last year's Cat A SV (3" up to tail joint), I do find my fish very small compared to others.I am not sure whether the organisers did re-categorise any fish, I felt that for borderline cases they actually leave it for the owner to declare the category; unless the difference is much too obvious.
goldrush
QUOTE(white horse T1 @ Thu, 17 Nov 2005 10:18 am)
VRC

for curosity sake, what are the do/don't if the participants see that his/her fish is unwell (i.e could he/she add medication like salt , oxycure, yellow powder or what not?  could he/she request for fresh water change or add home brought water?)

and what grounds will he have the right to remove the fish if it is deemed in critical health despite following the preparation regime.
*




I think the onus is upon the participant to ensure that the contesting fish should be healthy or appear healthy within normal physical examination.And the organizing committee reserve the rights to reject and disqualify any suspected or doubtful candidates which may not meet the necessary physical requirements be it health or show prerequisites. In professional club shows and competitions ( koi or dog), there are qualified vets present to consult pertaining to health issue and also judging committee to ascertain a particular contestant in meeting the minimum requirement before benching is even allowed.
VRC
HELLO RAFFLESGOLD MEMBERS,

Thanks for your kind feedback.
And I would also like to express my sincere gratitude to the bro mountain for making the remarkable comment.

I like to highlight that this competition is meant for every Ranchu Hobbyist. Not VRC.
So who would be the biggest loser if this show is not able to carry out?

Nevertheless, We will definately listen to your comment and improve our system each time. As we go by, we shall improve gradually and our knowledge will be better.
Hence, we need active public participation so that this show can become beneficial to EVERYBODY.
I hope you can understand.

Stay tune for more exciting news.

VRC
white horse T1
many here have participated in a couple of comp before, could share what is the benching in procedure? i.e.
is it deposit fish at counter and then no hands/no see (other than public viewing time) until benching out?
what is done to acclimatise the fish to the tank water? is bag water discarded totally?
was tank water gradually added to bag to get the fish acclimatise first before introducing to tank? how abt PH difference if home water cannot be used, how to address this?

how abt benching out, is it just pour fish in bag and bye bye....

i must qualify that i never participate in any comp before, that;s why i am asking.
The Matrix
my experience hor ...

what is done to acclimatise the fish to the tank water? just float the bag and wait for temperature to stablise. but i did saw some just pour fish in. bench in 2 hours lah, so dun worry. unless come late then bo bian lor.

is bag water discarded totally? depends. usually i pour in but not letting in too much poos into the tank lah.

was tank water gradually added to bag to get the fish acclimatise first before introducing to tank? As above lor. up to individual. I do that.

how abt PH difference if home water cannot be used bo bian. pH is not the major concern lah, most of us keeping 7-8.5 or so, local water won't be much different lah. the worst is the aeration enough or not. put in a big fish and aeration machiam using a small pump die liao lah. I recalled someone actually brough his own battery operated pump ... very cute.

how abt benching out, is it just pour fish in bag and bye bye.... of course ! go home recondition the fish before releasing back to the tank. since yuhua hall is not airconditioned, not much worry about temperature shock. those show in aircon one, female fish very active laying eggs.

i must qualify that i never participate in any comp before, that;s why i am asking. heh heh ... fill up the form ... experience the fun.
ranchu8
Matrix, looks like you have a winner Ranchu in your avatar; how about a bigger shot? placing it for the competition? good.gif
desireless
haha... Let me help you.

There you are:
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goldrush
Benching is procedure by which the ranchus that are to be entered into the show, are checked prior to going on display. The benching team will measure each fish checking it for obvious signs of disease or damage.They may photograph it for record. Each competition fish will then be entered into their respective size(length) and type(whether TVR or SVR). Benching may take time and in this instance, on the morning of the show itself.Perhaps VRC can allay the fears of potential exhibitors of what is to be expected at benching and whether the owners themselves are allowed to introduce their fish into their respective tanks or tubs or the fish are past to the benching team for the job.However owners must be present at the time of benching as no fish can be benched before the owners are identified and verified.After the necessary procedures are met,the owners are not allowed into the competition area to facilitate judging to commence.Your ranchus will be judged on their physical attributes by a panel of judges who are meticulous in carrying out this demanding role.So what are you waiting for..............Chiong ah
ranchu8
smile.gif wah ... power Ranchu ... thanks good.gif
giorin
yes.gif yes.gif yes.gif Wow!!! Count down to competition!!! Thank you for the Vanda Ranchu Club. beg2.gif
CP
VRC,

Can you consider having more prizes in the SV category.There are only 2 Cats A & B as compared to 4 Cats in the TVR.Also, if i remember correctly,prizes are given up to 5th placing last year (this year only up to 3rd) and there were also consolation prizes as well.I am sure the prizes do not cost that much and furthermore I feel that having more prizes will encourage more entries.

Rgds
CP
The Matrix
QUOTE(goldrush @ Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:12 pm)
Benching is procedure by which the ranchus that are to be entered into the show, are checked prior to going on display. The benching team will measure each fish checking it for obvious signs of disease or damage.They may photograph it for record. Each competition fish will then be entered into their respective size(length) and type(whether TVR or SVR).
*


sounds like u one of the committee leh ...

Even the big international show also ownself put fish in one. Noone dare to be responsible for damaging an entry especially a very very expensive one.
The Matrix
QUOTE(ranchu8 @ Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:25 pm)
Matrix, looks like you have a winner Ranchu in your avatar; how about a bigger shot? placing it for the competition?  good.gif
*

QUOTE(ranchu8 @ Sat, 19 Nov 2005 1:16 pm)
smile.gif wah ... power Ranchu ... thanks  good.gif
*


No power one lah ...

if this is one of the entry, then it will not be nice to put in a big pic. Geert is one of the judge, so I will have to respect all parties (potential competitors, judges and VRC) and maintain neutral till the benching in day.

Noone will have any winning fish till VRC read out the result. peace.gif
desireless
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:32 pm)
sounds like u one of the committee leh ...

Even the big international show also ownself put fish in one. Noone dare to be responsible for damaging an entry especially a very very expensive one.
*


I think the bad experience (fish almost got stolen) by a bro here during the Fishlove competition last year leads to this decision to let the committee members handle competitors' fishes instead. Security issue lah yes.gif
VRC
HELLO CP,

Thanks for your comment.
To be frank, We are still hoping to review the possiblilities of having top 5.

Let's see how the entries go.

Appreciate your kind patience and understanding.

VRC
ranchu8
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:39 pm)
No power one lah ...

if this is one of the entry, then it will not be nice to put in a big pic. Geert is one of the judge, so I will have to respect all parties (potential competitors, judges and VRC) and maintain neutral till the benching in day.

Noone will have any winning fish till VRC read out the result.  peace.gif
*


like this, show a bit too much smile.gif really looks power la good.gif
goldrush
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:32 pm)
sounds like u one of the committee leh ...

Even the big international show also ownself put fish in one. Noone dare to be responsible for damaging an entry especially a very very expensive one.
*




Me committee?????.hahahahaha

No no no.Just explaining what to expect at a competition but there are some modification and exception in the benching procedure which should be addressed to avoid unnecessary friction and misunderstanding.Perhaps a few questions will start the ball rolling.........
1)Are benching done on a first come first serve basis.We dont want a bottle neck scenario where everyone is excited to deposit their fish into their respective tank
aka kia su.
2)Are they allowed to float their bags in their tank/tub and how much time given
before releasing them .

Hope that I'm not asking for too much but just kaypoh around.... sweatingbullets.gif sweatingbullets.gif sweatingbullets.gif
VRC
QUOTE(goldrush @ Sun, 20 Nov 2005 11:40 am)
Me committee?????.hahahahaha

No no no.Just explaining what to expect at a competition but there are some modification and exception in the benching procedure which should be addressed to avoid unnecessary friction and misunderstanding.Perhaps a few questions will start the ball rolling.........
1)Are benching done on a first come first serve basis.We dont want a bottle neck scenario where everyone is excited to deposit their fish into their respective tank
aka kia su.
2)Are they allowed to float their bags in their tank/tub and how much time given
before releasing them .

Hope that I'm not asking for too much but just kaypoh around.... sweatingbullets.gif  sweatingbullets.gif  sweatingbullets.gif
*



HELLO GOLDRUSH,

I am not sure if you have witnessed how we did the bench in/out during the last competition. ORDERING and STRICT manner. It will be the same with some improvement that we have studied carefully.

No participants or public is allowed to be at the controlled area during bench in/out and judging.

Again, we need a very good control and co-operation to ensure that the operation can run smoothly.

VRC
CP
The venue for the competition,Yuhua CC, as seen from satellite.

\"IPB
goldrush
Target locked ,

Missiles Ready,

Await for your order Sir!



IPB Image
The Matrix
Hi VRC,

Would like to clarify some of your rules during benching in/out.

Handling :
If you do not allow participants to enter the controlled area, what are these controlled area ?

I absolutely agree on the no entry rule during judging and benching out. As for the benching in, would it be safer if the owner take care and be responsible of the fish instead of VRC ?

It might be a mess, but the owner knows the fish well and be able to know how long to acclimatize instead of someone with totally no knowledge of what to do. There are other ways to control the benching in instead of a total lock out.

If a fish is damaged, caused death by VRC handling, how would VRC respond ?

If VRC does not allow owner to put in fish personally, I would like to know the procedure of fish handling.

Tank condition :
VRC has mentioned the water in the tank will be 24 hours filled prior to the show. I would like to know what processes does VRC endorsed to ensure safe water condition ?


.....
VRC
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:35 am)
Hi VRC,

Would like to clarify some of your rules during benching in/out.

Handling :
If you do not allow participants to enter the controlled area, what are these controlled area ?

I absolutely agree on the no entry rule during judging and benching out. As for the benching in, would it be safer if the owner take care and be responsible of the fish instead of VRC ?

It might be a mess, but the owner knows the fish well and be able to know how long to acclimatize instead of someone with totally no knowledge of what to do. There are other ways to control the benching in instead of a total lock out.

If a fish is damaged, caused death by VRC handling, how would VRC respond ?

If VRC does not allow owner to put in fish personally, I would like to know the procedure of fish handling.

Tank condition :
VRC has mentioned the water in the tank will be 24 hours filled prior to the show. I would like to know what processes does VRC endorsed to ensure safe water condition ?
.....
*



HELLO MATRIX,

Thanks for your questions and I will try to answer them.

Like the last competition, we have to ensure our officials who handle the fish are properly trained a couple of weeks before the competition day. And these officials that we have chosen are ranchu lovers. We will check the fish condition first...how long is the temperature adjustment needed?...how to hold and transfer the fish in a calm manner.…short observation after releasing the fish, etc.
BUT the participant is to FIRST ENSURE their fish is healthy and good to go for the competition. By STRICTLY following the rules of Thumb, I wonder whose fish would require so special attention.

For prior water preparation, other than the normal checks, we even take live fish to test the water condition beforehand. We welcome any better suggestion if you have for us.

We are also as particular as you like in handling these PRECIOUS pets. That is why we put up a note on how to prepare a fish for competition to minimize risk. I hope you can take some TIME to study our approach well. Else it is meaningless for us who try our best in organizing this show with such risk involved.
Everybody has to play their part. And I would also like to SUGGEST that you should read our Rules and Regulations again.

In fact the bench/in idea you gave will sure give lots of relief to VRC’s responsibilities. But it is not the point we wanted. We had studied the pros and cons that at this point of TIME, it is still safer to have VRC in control. Else it will take much much longer time to start the show and the competition area will be very messy and invites more rooms for errors to happen. Nevertheless, I did not disagree with your point. In fact we do hope we can follow the Japanese style, but we know it is not possible presently. I am looking forward to the “day”.

I hope you can gain some trust and confidence in the organizers who have done the last competition and the judges whom we also constantly seek advices and suggestions.

Appreciate and thanks for your points.

VRC
The Matrix
Thank you VRC. Probably that's the club stand on the show and the methology implemented. I will respect that, but not necessary follow.

Anyway, about the checks you have mentioned, what are these checks ? will the water be buffered and neutralising of chloramines ?

Just a suggestion, maybe VRC is doing so - do not put any live fish or anything to test the competition tank water used for putting the participant fish. do it with any other tank or pail or anything out of the display area. this will prevent any possible contamination.
CyberET
so the officials will be dipping their hands into multiple tanks with fishes from multiple origin?
mountain
Like it or not , the postings here are moderated.

It took me 5 times the effort to interprete CyberEt's message. Essentially it translate into .. I hope .. what are the practices the committee exercise to prevent cross contaimnation when benching in and out fish. I will leave that to VRC to reply since its related to The Matrix's query.
CP
May I have the following suggestion with regards to benching in:

1)Competitor registers outside hall and collect slip indicating tank number.

2)An official stations in the hall during bench in, public not allowed during bench-in.Competitor then shows the slip to to official and then proceeds to bench in his own fish.Official checks that competitor benches his fish into the correct tank/tub.
How long to float the fish in the tank/tub is left to the judgement of the competitor.

3)Competitor releases his own fish.

4)Once finished, competitor not allowed to re-enter the hall until judging is over and opened to public.

This may help prevent the competitor from accusing the organisers that his fish was stressed/injured/sick etc etc due to improper benching in.
VRC
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Mon, 21 Nov 2005 5:58 pm)


Just a suggestion, maybe VRC is doing so - do not put any live fish or anything to test the competition tank water used for putting the participant fish. do it with any other tank or pail or anything out of the display area. this will prevent any possible contamination.
*




Dear Matrix,
We are putting in a different basin to test the water since last year. Thank you for your suggestions.

We take all your suggestions very seriously, and hope we can improve on the quality of the competition in near future together.

Kindest regards,
VRC
VRC
QUOTE(CyberET @ Mon, 21 Nov 2005 6:01 pm)
so the officials will be dipping their hands into multiple tanks with fishes from multiple origin?
*



Dear Cybernet,
Your suggestion is wonderful, we did took this into account for benching in and out.

we are considering of ways to have a basin or a pail of Sanitiser or disinfectant which kills bacteria and yet not harmful to fishes. We want to make sure all officals handling one fish will sterilised thier hand before touch the next fish.

Thank you!

Regards,
VRC
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