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goldrush
Hi guys

As promised, today I'll touch on the controversial topic on the matter of live and death of your beloved pal.
Ever wonder how long the lifespan of our goldfish friend or ever stop to ponder (behind the roving eyes of your spouse)over how we have spend our lives spending on them(keep on buying new ones to replace the old)
On a serious note if we were to ask ourselves how long have we kept our beloved fish .The answer is pretty obvious isn’t it.

For the record,as Desireless had pointed out,goldfish has the capability to last 20 odd years.But in reality perhaps in Singapore as cyberET had pointed we can hardly cross the 5 years mark!So what makes a goldfish last ? For me to last means without succumbing to prematured degeneration,sickness,old age and death.
Genetics aside(that dreadful repeated word)I’ll try to analyse with the presence of all bros here to find the elixir towards longevity of our friends.

My Observation

Cold water fish
Being born and created as a cold water organism,the goldfish lives in nature in the temperate region .So physiologically speaking the goldfish is more acclimatized to a temperate environment.Unlike experiencing the pleasure of four seasons,our environment provides a never ending web of activities without much rest and recuperation,so the fish literally burn out after assuming a shorten peak condition.From the highest PEAK to the lowest PIT in a relative short time!.Climate plays an all important role to fulfil the missing element of longevity.Our fish are simply not allowed to build on their reserves and hibernate but are force to acclimatize to the harsh environment at a relative tender age,growing at accelerated rate and assume maturity at a tender age(I notice my babies indulging sexual activities at this age already)

GENECTICS
Undisputedly genectics play an important influence on the lifespan of fishes.Being a mutated species,the goldfish are grostequely developed for human pleasure and not a survival, natural selective evolution.Being man made,it has to be highly dependent on our constant care and attention.The more mutated it is the far more vulnerable to early demise because in genetic sense it simply cannot survive in the wild!Now these are genectics factors and cannot be influenced by external intervention.As many different cells and tissues become tired the fish begin to fade and under such circumstances we can only watch and see them grow “old” gracefully.We are yet to find an elixir to retard this aging so until then we can only watch as it dwindles in its twilight years or even months.So the only goldfish that live for more couple of years are those actually resembling the wild crucian form but not the fancy varieties.

ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS

Irritants/Infection/Inconsideration
With limited facilities for proper growth and harnessing its potential,a host of irritant and infection can result in early demise of our fishes.So this something preventable and manageable.
Water Chemistry
Besides being an irritant,the chemistry of water may lead to early death should water parameters are neglected and are not properly monitored and deficiency retified.Needless to elaborate further


FOOD
Food is a means of substenance but also indirectly a health hazard .Far too often we try to pump our fish from young to achieve growth at a relative short time insensitive to its proper development as a result of imbalance high protein diet which may lead to liver and kidney ailments that inflict our fishes at a tender age.So feed with vigilant .Live and frozen food have their inherent risks but so too are the myriads of freeze dried and dried counterparts .A balance is essential but again it is easier said than done!

Conclusion
It’s very rare for the wild type of goldfish farmed closest to its natural environment to perish at a relative young age(disregarding predators and natural disasters)While Genectics are beyond our control,the challenge remains for us to mimic as closely as possible to the natural environment which its ancestor originated .Such condition brings out not only the best of health ,color and growth but ensure longevity and survival as well.
Over here we are not blessed with Four seasons as in the temperate region.The only closest four seasons we ever have at the moment is the Four Seasons hotel. So time for you guys to CHECK IN to see if you will CHECK OUT with your goldfish with longevity and health…………………


Cheers

peace.gif peace.gif peace.gif

goldrush
CyberET
Posts moved from What Is "Fukurin"?
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in our local weather.. i doubt the goldfish can last 5 years..
The Matrix
QUOTE(goldrush @ Mon, 07 Mar 2005 8:48 pm)
Hmmmm give me an idea to write on my next controversial topic

Title should be: LIfespan or life spend
Sounds interesting?
Maybe should start a poll to honestly feedback some info of how long bros can keep their goldfish 1)alive even though with gross inadequacies
                            2)alive and still maintain good features and color
                           
Come to think of it some of us have kept for many years but how many of our fishes are still with us

Answer:  NONE (am I alone?)

Got to go now and let me sleep over and contemplate on my next topic to write

Cheers and Good nite
goldrush
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hahahaha .... if u referring to how long i have been keeping goldfish and the very 1st one still with me, then i also a simple NO.

But the longest I ever kept was a 3 yrs ++ ryukin ... can't recall the exact months. Died last year.

A lot of dedication to keep old fish leh.
desireless
Although lifespan of goldfish can go up to 20 years, I have not seen any local hobbyist claiming he own a 10-yr-old goldfish.

This is why it is worth buying small fishes to groom. You spend hundreds or even thousands on a hugh fish but who knows how many more years you can keep it. Probably it'll just die in a few months' time and the money spent would not be justified.
CyberET
where got not justified?
the money spent on grooming is greater getting to that size, than buying one..
desireless
QUOTE(CyberET @ Tue, 08 Mar 2005 8:45 am)
where got not justified?
the money spent on grooming is greater getting to that size, than buying one..
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The 3K goldfish at R***BOW leh? biggrin.gif
The Matrix
QUOTE(desireless @ Tue, 08 Mar 2005 1:12 pm)
The 3K goldfish at R***BOW leh? biggrin.gif
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3K ? how about that 18K at R***BOW ?
desireless
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Tue, 08 Mar 2005 1:15 pm)
3K ? how about that 18K at R***BOW ?
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Oh ya... spend 18K just to keep it for 1-2 yrs... I would rather go get a very good motorbike or 2nd hand small car.
CyberET
QUOTE(desireless @ Tue, 08 Mar 2005 1:12 pm)
The 3K goldfish at R***BOW leh? biggrin.gif
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... did anyone buy it?
The Matrix
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Tue, 08 Mar 2005 1:15 pm)
3K ? how about that 18K at R***BOW ?
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erh ....
how come must censor ? nothing wrong leh ?

Aquatics become A***tics, C328 become C**8, Mainland become M***L*** ?? funny leh ... cannot understand.
The Matrix
QUOTE(CyberET @ Tue, 08 Mar 2005 4:55 pm)
... did anyone buy it?
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Still there lah. Who want to spend 18K and no 4D number appear on the body ...

The latest fishlove magazine got the pic ...
desireless
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Tue, 08 Mar 2005 6:38 pm)
erh ....
how come rain bow must censor ? nothing wrong leh ?

Aquatics become A***tics, C328 become C**8, Mainland become M***L*** ?? funny leh ... cannot understand.
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Coz now I saying something not so good about this LFS mah...

Later like AB****TE RANCHU from Thailand threatened to sue you, how??

Now censor the word, so that if later they say "You mean to say I am cheating customer by charging 18K for a fish?", you can say "I was referring to my uncle. He also got fish sell at 18K rupiah"
CP
QUOTE(goldrush @ Mon, 07 Mar 2005 7:39 pm)
Ever wonder how long the lifespan of our goldfish............
.
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I've never had the oppurtunity to find out yet.

First of all,I'm in this hobby for only slightly more than 2 years and I tend to change fish (like our garment's upgrading programme) rather frequently.

The longest in my current collection are the pair of ryukins which I have had for the past 15 months now.They were already adults when I purchased them,by my estimation at least 1 year old when I got them cause already 7" when bought.So abt 2 and a half years old.The colouration on one of them is already deteriorating and I have just sent them to outdoor pond to hopefully improve the colouration.

It is widely accepted that the average lifespan of goldfish in our region is about 5 years max,but I believe that over here their "peak performance" will be over in two years.

I was informed that the Oyas competing in the recently concluded comp. are only second years fishes.I wonder if they can maintain the same vigour in their third years,in our climate.
goldrush
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Tue, 08 Mar 2005 11:03 pm)
I've never had the oppurtunity to find out yet.

First of all,I'm in this hobby for only slightly more than 2 years and I tend to change fish (like our garment's upgrading programme) rather frequently.

The longest in my current collection are the pair of ryukins which I have had for the past 15 months now.They were already adults when I purchased them,by my estimation at least 1 year old when I got them cause already 7" when bought.So abt 2 and a half years old.The colouration on one of them is already deteriorating and I have just sent them to outdoor pond to hopefully improve the colouration.

It is widely accepted that the average lifespan of goldfish in our region is about 5 years max,but I believe that over here their "peak performance" will be over in two years.

I was informed that the Oyas competing in the recently concluded comp. are only second years fishes.I wonder if they can maintain the same vigour in their third years,in our climate.
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Yo cpiw

Are you consider a lao jiau or sin jiao

You post like ah lao but own like sin sin leh
Pls no offence intended

goldrush
CP
QUOTE(goldrush @ Wed, 09 Mar 2005 9:55 am)
Yo cpiw

Are you consider a lao jiau or sin jiao

You post like ah lao but own like sin sin leh
Pls no offence intended

goldrush
*


Sin jiao sin jiao.
But very willing to learn and ask around,read up,so in a way can post like a lao jiao. biggrin.gif
Got friend's guidance and RG Forum to do things right first time and avoided many begineer's pitfalls.
Anyway,whether 2 years or 20 years,sin jiao,lao jiao or gu gu jiao,we are always learning,right?

Regards
cpiw
CP
On this topic of goldfish life span in our climate there are two analogies which I can draw to on why the lifespan here is shorter.I guess that their life span is abt half compared to goldfish being kept in temperate regions with four seasons in which our FOUR Seasons Hotel is totally irrelavant.

The first analogy may make some sense:
In treatment of fish diseases eg ick (white spot) we can raise the water temperature to hasten the life cycle of the parasites.So if goldfish had originated in China's temperate weather and we are raising them here we are actually hastening their life cycles as well.That is why Goldrush's babies spawned in Oct 04(am I right?) are having underaged sex now at the age of 5 months as compared to China or Japan where if the fishes spawn in spring after 5 month they are in hibernation.

The second analogy makes no sense and to be taken on a lighter note:
Ever heard of the saying that the amount of money that we make in a lifetime is already pre-determined and therefore after we reached the amount we will die?
So for a goldfish the amount of food is already predetermined,in our region they consume twice as much as compared to temperate regions therefore their lifespan if half as much. rolleyes.gif
goldrush
Hahahahahahahahah
I like your analogies
So people like us tend to expire earlier
if we eat more and have sex earlier
Blame it on climate or reaching climax sooner than permitted
gohks
Moderator,
Not sure this is done before and is too general to get a poll. Would like to know the general statistic of how long a lifespan of goldfish when kept in door, possibly in term of average, excluding those outliers.
Heard that is not too long live sad.gif
desireless
Topic moved.
You can find your answers here. Lifespan of a fish should depend more on climate.

If unsure you can do a search. This is exactly what I did. I merely did a search on "lifespan", which led me to this topic.
gohks
QUOTE(desireless @ Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:47 pm)
Topic moved.
You can find your answers here. Lifespan of a fish should depend more on climate.

If unsure you can do a search. This is exactly what I did. I merely did a search on "lifespan", which led me to this topic.
*


Thks, forget to do a search blush.gif . Don't really get the answer here. Theroetically is 5 yrs, but where is the norm? 1, 2, 3 yrs? Is it possible to get some poll from the members to see where is the norm, so at least we can know where we lies and whether our way of upkeeping is right?
desireless
Hi, a poll on what you've suggested, with the members here will not be accurate and will not be able to represent anything at all.

As CP has pointed out, a great portion of members have short history in this hobby.

For example, if a member only have a 2 yr history in this hobby, given that he is VERY SKILLED FROM START, his oldest fish might only be 2 yr old. But it does not mean that the lifespan of his fish is only 2 yrs. Perhaps a few more yrs for this fish to stay alive.

Another point, as goldrush has started this topic for, is that a fish dying of disease cannot be taken as its natural lifespan. It is due to the owner's lack of ability to keep the fish healthy, that is killing it.

So to gauge goldfish's natural lifespan locally, a lot of considerations have to taken into account. One of great importance, is the owner's skills.

To sum up what I am trying to say is, in a poll where many newbies have taken part in, the general lifespan would probably be about a few months to 1 yr. But it does not mean that goldfish kept in Singapore can only live for one year only!

Generally, like ET has pointed out, 5 yrs at most. My longest living fish was with me for 2 yrs... until I lost it (it did not die.. simply GOT LOST!). So for me it is 2yr plus 3 months (for it to grow to about 4 inches when I bought it.)
square_guy
yo ppl!

ehh, my avatar fish still alive. probably 2.5 yrs?
gohks
QUOTE(desireless @ Tue, 13 Dec 2005 2:14 pm)
Hi, a poll on what you've suggested, with the members here will not be accurate and will not be able to represent anything at all.

As CP has pointed out, a great portion of members have short history in this hobby.

For example, if a member only have a 2 yr history in this hobby, given that he is VERY SKILLED FROM START, his oldest fish might only be 2 yr old. But it does not mean that the lifespan of his fish is only 2 yrs. Perhaps a few more yrs for this fish to stay alive.

Another point, as goldrush has started this topic for, is that a fish dying of disease cannot be taken as its natural lifespan. It is due to the owner's lack of ability to keep the fish healthy, that is killing it.

So to gauge goldfish's natural lifespan locally, a lot of considerations have to taken into account. One of great importance, is the owner's skills.

To sum up what I am trying to say is, in a poll where many newbies have taken part in, the general lifespan would probably be about a few months to 1 yr. But it does not mean that goldfish kept in Singapore can only live for one year only!

Generally, like ET has pointed out, 5 yrs at most. My longest living fish was with me for 2 yrs... until I lost it (it did not die.. simply GOT LOST!). So for me it is 2yr plus 3 months (for it to grow to about 4 inches when I bought it.)
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Desireless,
Thks, fully understood of the subjectivity involved. Probably a poll of the longest living goldfish here will be more approriate.
I have one hardy (no matter how I treat it) 18cm Ranchu follows me for 4 yrs, from the first day I bought it (already the same size and not sure how long it already lives). yes.gif
The Matrix
QUOTE(square_guy @ Tue, 13 Dec 2005 2:31 pm)
yo ppl!

ehh, my avatar fish still alive. probably 2.5 yrs?
*



yup still alive and more years to come ...
The Matrix
longest i know locally hor, was a 8 yrs old. that's a comet that I kept in a glass tank. However, most of fanciful goldfish seldom reach a "fruitful old age" like human. Guess like dogs, hybrids vs pedigrees.

in local climate, lifespan does shorten quite drastically. However, it depends on every living condition that the keeper can provide and how well one can maintain for the a thousand days and more.

the lifespan of a fish is in the hand of the owner.
gohks
Generally, you can also see a common goldfish (e.g comet ) lives longer then those fanciful one. Lifespan really depend what sort of goldfish you are keeping, those that human created through cross-breeding are really susceptible to all kind of deceases and thus short lived , like
a) The globic type, golfball and crownhead pearlscale, are susceptible to dropsy and bubble on the skin deceases,
b) Those that with fins intentionally shorten (short-tail Ryukin & telescope) or eliminated (Ranchu, Lionhead) are prone to swim-bladder and buoyancy problem.
c) Those that with fanciful looks like bubble eyes, wen on oranda/lion head are vulnerable to rot and hole in the head problem.
Isn't human being the culprit on creating those fanciful goldfish that we so call nice are shortening the life of goldfish. biggrin.gif
I hardly see any pearlscale that can live past a yr. If you have one, I really beg2.gif
The Matrix
a) The globic type, golfball and crownhead pearlscale, are susceptible to dropsy and bubble on the skin deceases,

Very good observation ! Pearlscale - the most demanding water condition than any other varieties.

b) Those that with fins intentionally shorten (short-tail Ryukin & telescope) or eliminated (Ranchu, Lionhead) are prone to swim-bladder and buoyancy problem.

Not bad not bad at all ... Not really but due to the enlarged body.

c) Those that with fanciful looks like bubble eyes, wen on oranda/lion head are vulnerable to rot and hole in the head problem.

Funny, bubbles should not fall into this leh.

I hardly see any pearlscale that can live past a yr. If you have one, I really beg2.gif

biggrin.gif mine going 2 in a few months time ....Tiku Pearl

most pics all gone liao. long time ago discussion.
CyberET
my oldest butt.. more than 2yrs liaoz

IPB Image

as for pearl, i've got almost 2years old

IPB Image
gohks
CyberET,
beg2.gif beg2.gif , your perscale must be kept in tip-top condition all these yrs good.gif
gohks
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:34 pm)
[b) Those that with fins intentionally shorten (short-tail Ryukin & telescope) or eliminated (Ranchu, Lionhead) are prone to swim-bladder and buoyancy problem.

Not bad not bad at all ... Not really but due to the enlarged body.

c) Those that with fanciful looks like bubble eyes, wen on oranda/lion head are vulnerable to rot and hole in the head problem.

Funny, bubbles should not fall into this leh.

[
*


Matrix,
I think the fins play a huge part in balancing of a fish. Those that with shorten tail w.r.t the body mass I observed really have problem struggling through the water current. Those that with dorsal fin elimiated has problem navigating and may end with with head/tail standing (Infact, I am not sure of the function of the dorsal fin for a fish).
As for the bubble eyes, really the sac is a problem and prone to deceases, beside the hassel of maintaining the delicate bubbles.

Goh
The Matrix
QUOTE(gohks @ Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:22 am)
Matrix,
I think the fins play a huge part in balancing of a fish.  Those that with shorten tail w.r.t the body mass I observed really have problem struggling through the water current.  Those that with dorsal fin elimiated has problem navigating and may end with with head/tail standing (Infact, I am not sure of the function of the dorsal fin for a fish).
As for the bubble eyes, really the sac is a problem and prone to deceases, beside the hassel of maintaining the delicate bubbles.

Goh
*



a strong body for those finage shorted varieties will not be as bad. there are quite a few factors that cause some problem to these group of fishes. Actually only the tail is shortened, the rest of the fins are not. Short tail give the powerful thrust when comes to swimming, lack the elegant look. Long tail give the smooth gliding swimming posture and very elegant.

I do noticed the different in size of some dorsal, but looks more to lineage related.

for bubbles eyes, falls under the bulging eyes categories together with frog eyes, celestial, traditional dragon eyes. this group has traditional longer body and tail which will require a good well balanced body and maintain proper healthy environment. the bubble sacs and the large eyes are highly prone to infection once the body unable to carry the extra weight.
CyberET
hmm.. bubbles biggrin.gif

IPB Image
desireless
Wah... how old is it? biggrin.gif The bubbles look like fishballs... yum yum... drool.gif
The Matrix
QUOTE(CyberET @ Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:01 pm)
hmm.. bubbles biggrin.gif


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hahahahaha show off .... nananana.gif dun make me take out mine ...

ken, tosai only.
CyberET
erm.. about 4-6months? lost track liaoz
white horse T1
QUOTE(CyberET @ Wed, 14 Dec 2005 2:39 pm)
erm.. about 4-6months? lost track liaoz
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by far the biggest bubble eye i ve seen to date.......
ball
Cyberet,
Is King Kong your cousin?
You live on the same island as him is it?
CyberET
QUOTE(white horse T1 @ Wed, 14 Dec 2005 5:17 pm)
by far the biggest bubble eye i ve seen to date.......
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the biggest i have since i've started on bubble eyes, but i think this fellow balls are getting too big already.. no strength to lug two balls around hysterical.gif

QUOTE(ball @ Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:17 am)
Cyberet,
Is King Kong your cousin?
You live on the same island as him is it?
*



no le, king kong island got dinosaurs, and pretty babe, i don't see any of that tongue.gif
The Matrix
QUOTE(CyberET @ Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:23 am)
no le, king kong island got dinosaurs, and pretty babe, i don't see any of that tongue.gif
*

becos this one from the 30's ...
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