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becky_lass
I was wondering if theres any tosakin telescope? I bought a telescope goldfish imported from Japan from Feng Shui Fish in Puchong, KL. The shop owner told me it's a AAA grade fish.I like it so i bought. It's still a small fish(body length 2 in)....I searched for "tosakin telescope" in google images and i found one.....is it a new breed?

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CyberET
nope, its just a dragon eye with a fused tail
becky_lass
QUOTE(CyberET @ Fri, 27 Jan 2006 6:53 pm)
nope, its just a dragon eye with a fused tail
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Hmmm..i see hehe....thanks. Coz i was wonderin...i saw 3 of these at Feng Shui Fish, Puchong. They said imported from Japan and another guy bought another one.....So i thought its some kind of a new breed...then i went to search on google images and there was also one like this.....it's called tosakin telescope....
The Matrix
Could be a new breed if it breed true. Can find out who is the breeder ? Butterfly tail dragon eyes is known to have a fused tail fries within a single spawn. Some can be as good as tosakin tail.

Feng Shui imported from Japan har ... ok. Then not going to be cheap liao lor. M$200 each ?
becky_lass
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Sat, 28 Jan 2006 12:39 am)
Could be a new breed if it breed true. Can find out who is the breeder ? Butterfly tail dragon eyes is known to have a fused tail fries within a single spawn. Some can be as good as tosakin tail.

Feng Shui imported from Japan har ... ok. Then not going to be cheap liao lor. M$200 each ?
*



Hmmm i dont know if it's a new breed but i tried to find tosakin telescope in google images.....a pic came out.....I have no idea who's the breeder though but i was told it's imported from Japan smile.gif. Yeah, Feng Shui does import from Japan....the owner, Mr Chook told me he's going to Japan soon.....to get some fishes.....Hmmm it's a small fish(body length bout 2 and 1/2in).....the price was bout RM200.....since i told the boss i came all the way from Malacca, he sold to me at RM170
GoldfisHub
QUOTE(becky_lass @ Wed, 01 Feb 2006 1:11 am)
Hmmm i dont know if it's a new breed but i tried to find tosakin telescope in google images.....a pic came out.....I have no idea who's the breeder though but i was told it's imported from Japan smile.gif. Yeah, Feng Shui does import from Japan....the owner, Mr Chook told me he's going to Japan soon.....to get some fishes.....Hmmm it's a small fish(body length bout 2 and 1/2in).....the price was bout RM200.....since i told the boss i came all the way from Malacca, he sold to me at RM170
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Hi Actually bought this guy from a local shop in Singapore. Just thought it is nice, the owner told me it's a butterfly/telescope. I think this guy I bought is from China. Trying to groom the color a bit more intense.
desireless
QUOTE(GoldfisHub @ Tue, 07 Feb 2006 10:24 pm)
Hi Actually bought this guy from a local shop in Singapore. Just thought it is nice, the owner told me it's a butterfly/telescope. I think this guy I bought is from China. Trying to groom the color a bit more intense.
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Sorry, I don't really get the flow here.

Care to show what you've bought? The fish in the first post was suspected to be a Tosakin because of the fused tail.
Ranchu Lover
QUOTE(becky_lass @ Wed, 01 Feb 2006 1:11 am)
Hmmm i dont know if it's a new breed but i tried to find tosakin telescope in google images.....a pic came out.....I have no idea who's the breeder though but i was told it's imported from Japan smile.gif. Yeah, Feng Shui does import from Japan....the owner, Mr Chook told me he's going to Japan soon.....to get some fishes.....Hmmm it's a small fish(body length bout 2 and 1/2in).....the price was bout RM200.....since i told the boss i came all the way from Malacca, he sold to me at RM170
*


It is still freezing in Japan. Do you think you can get goldfish from Japan at this time of the year? Japanese never use A; AA; AAA in their grading for goldfish. These terms are used by the Thais for their goldfish and by the Indonesian for their seafood grading. Do you smell anything???????

People can really make up names just to sell their rejected fish.
Maniacholic
QUOTE(Ranchu Lover @ Tue, 07 Feb 2006 4:12 pm)
It is still freezing in Japan. Do you think you can get goldfish from Japan at this time of the year? Japanese never use A; AA; AAA in their grading for goldfish. These terms are used by the Thais for their goldfish and by the Indonesian for their seafood grading. Do you smell anything???????

People can really make up names just to sell their rejected fish.
*


here in the US there are almost 10 different names for butterfly tails, I get your point
The Matrix
QUOTE(desireless @ Wed, 08 Feb 2006 12:08 am)
Sorry, I don't really get the flow here.

Care to show what you've bought? The fish in the first post was suspected to be a Tosakin because of the fused tail.
*


Tosakin is a sub-variety of wen-yu. Many people just throw in any name to anything look-alike.

The fish is a fused butterfly tail (3 lopes) telescopic/dragoneyes/demekin ....

seems like one hell lot'sa confusion in this variety. oh man ....

if one say it's rare, it is rare as there ain't not many in a spawn.
if one say it's a cull, it is also can be consider a cull as it's a defect from a spawn.
CyberET
its a rare cull, as not many culls are considered valuable rare hysterical.gif
The Matrix
hahahaha ... just like those unclean lineage of ranchu that produce fishes with dorsal fins. Oranchu ... valueable cull I guess ...
desireless
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Wed, 08 Feb 2006 3:47 pm)
Tosakin is a sub-variety of wen-yu. Many people just throw in any name to anything look-alike.

The fish is a fused butterfly tail (3 lopes) telescopic/dragoneyes/demekin ....

seems like one hell lot'sa confusion in this variety. oh man ....

if one say it's rare, it is rare as there ain't not many in a spawn.
if one say it's a cull, it is also can be consider a cull as it's a defect from a spawn.
*


I said I didn't get the flow because it was becky_lass who posted the fish for comment and suddenly GoldfishHub said "Hi Actually bought this guy from a local shop in Singapore." So whose fish is it? uhm.gif

Abnormality... I have one swimming in my tank though lol.gif

IPB Image
This is a RANCHU!!!
GoldfisHub
QUOTE(desireless @ Wed, 08 Feb 2006 12:08 am)
Sorry, I don't really get the flow here.

Care to show what you've bought? The fish in the first post was suspected to be a Tosakin because of the fused tail.
*


Sorry lah, tried to insert picture but not successful. The tail looks similar to tosakin too. Let try again...
IPB Image
The Matrix
QUOTE(GoldfisHub @ Wed, 08 Feb 2006 9:24 pm)
Sorry lah, tried to insert picture but not successful. The tail looks similar to tosakin too. Let try again...

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try keep it longer and u see got any different from tosakin or not lor.

interesting lineage ... where u got this ?
becky_lass
QUOTE(Ranchu Lover @ Wed, 08 Feb 2006 5:12 am)
It is still freezing in Japan. Do you think you can get goldfish from Japan at this time of the year? Japanese never use A; AA; AAA in their grading for goldfish. These terms are used by the Thais for their goldfish and by the Indonesian for their seafood grading. Do you smell anything???????

People can really make up names just to sell their rejected fish.
*



Hey, haha i will take the things you say as some kinda sarcasm... nananana.gif . Firstly, I didn't ask you if the fish is from Japan...I was just asking if it could be part tosakin....coz of the tail. And if this could be a new breed. So dont go all fancy telling me it's freezing cold in Japan right now! who doesnt know? Secondly, the owner of Feng Shui Fish, I went there a month ago(when i bought it), asked me if i wanna follow him to Japan to get some fish...he's only going one week before new year...if there's no fish, why would he go?Thirdly, bout the AAA...he's Malaysian and of course it's much easier for him to use AA, AAA since goldfish fanciers over here are more familiar with the term. it's understood. And fourthly, rejected goldfish? haha....if u have been to Feng Shui Fish Puchong, you'll know out it's reputation(but it's true)....They are in the import export business....specializes in goldfish. They are closely link to Tung Hoi in China. And nice fishes or competition material fishes are all upstairs in the VIP lounge, it's lock...if u wanna go in, u have to ask for permission and if ur regular customer. So you call that rejected?It was swimming with some Japanese tosakins in the same tank.Look, am not trying to be mean to you. I hate to do this but i just find some of ur sentences rude. I dont understand why ur doing this. No hard feelings
desireless
Relax man...

Anyway becky_lass, do you have access to the VIP lounge? Do they allow picture taking? I was fascinated by their super jumbo ryukin during Aquarama. Next time when you're there can you please take some pictures if allowed? blush2.gif

As for the fish that you've posted, since you say it is from the same tank as tosakin, then perhaps it is really meant to be a dragoneye tosakin. But although the tail is fused, it is still not a good tosakin tail.
tomato
Halo, this is not a tosakin and is definitely not from Japan.
A true blue good tosakin's tail must be totally fused and having jagged outlines. A good tosakin tosai should display a foldbacks at the tail tips. Some tosais already display this when they are still in baby black. Observe this piece carefully and you would see that it has the common butterfly tail at the tips.
Yes, Feng Shui is one of the distributors for TungHoi's fishes. They can sometimes bring in good fishes from TH. This piece is probably kept together with other Tosakins because Tosakins requires special keeping method. But it does not neccessary mean that they are from the same batch.
becky_lass
QUOTE(desireless @ Thu, 09 Feb 2006 6:18 pm)
Relax man...

Anyway becky_lass, do you have access to the VIP lounge? Do they allow picture taking? I was fascinated by their super jumbo ryukin during Aquarama. Next time when you're there can you please take some pictures if allowed? blush2.gif

As for the fish that you've posted, since you say it is from the same tank as tosakin, then perhaps it is really meant to be a dragoneye tosakin. But although the tail is fused, it still not a good tosakin tail.
*



they dont allow you to take pics of the fishes though. But if you want you can go for a look yourself. I can give you the address. The owner told me they export to Singapore as well. The owner is very friendly though. Since you have been to Feng Shui, you can look for Chook and ask for his permission to go see the fishes upstairs....I guess i was over re-acting and am not a man haha......Well, I was just wondering if the tail is a tosakin's that's all. But anyways, like everyone says, it's a fused tail so i won't assume it's a tosakin's then smile.gif. Yeah i know even if it's a tosakin's tail, it's not as good and after some comparison to a tosakin, i would say it's a fused tail. Well, i guess i don't care now haha....i bought it coz i really like the fish and for personal enjoyment. If i bought it coz everyone else's think it's nice or beautiful and i dont' enjoy the fish then wot's the point? u dont buy something just to please others but urself.......
becky_lass
QUOTE(tomato @ Thu, 09 Feb 2006 7:07 pm)
Halo, this is not a tosakin and is definitely not from Japan.
A true blue good tosakin's tail must be totally fused and having jagged outlines. A good tosakin tosai should display a foldbacks at the tail tips. Some tosais already display this when they are still in baby black. Observe this piece carefully and you would see that it has the common butterfly tail at the tips.
Yes, Feng Shui is one of the distributors for TungHoi's fishes. They can sometimes bring in good fishes from TH. This piece is probably kept together with other Tosakins because Tosakins requires special keeping method. But it does not neccessary mean that they are from the same batch.
*



Hello.......nop, after much comments, i have come to the conclusion that it's a fused tail. Well, If you say it's not from Japan then you have to ask the owner coz he told me it is from Japan.......you're entitled to your own opinion smile.gif. It was in the same tank as the tosakins and the owner told me, that tank(with tosakin and the fused tail dragon eye), the fishes are from japan.......I asked him 3 times before i bought the fish, if it's from Japan and he said "yes it's from Japan". Then i bought it coz i like it that's all. If i post the pic coz i want you guys to comment on whether it's nice or not, or whether it's from Japan or not, i would have posted in your "goldfish academy" section.......but i didn't and i was just asking a simple question before i come to a certain conclusion thats all.But i really appreciate all of your comments and sorry to those i have offended...... blush.gif
desireless
Oh sorry... I overlooked the point that your ID reeks so much of a lady!! hahah... sorry sorry salute.gif

Anyway, thanks tomato for sharing some insights. Indeed from what he's pointed out on a tosakin tail, this dragoneye looks more like a fused tail now.

I believe he has meant no offence when he said that this fish is not from Japan.
The Matrix
QUOTE(becky_lass @ Thu, 09 Feb 2006 3:57 pm)
Hey, haha i will take the things you say as some kinda sarcasm... nananana.gif .
*


Relac lah. Lady must be ... lady lah .. tongue.gif

I know Chook and of course have a knowledge of what standard of fish he import in for his regular customers. Top grade Tung Hoi fish is not very commonly seen in this small island, probably during an international competition.

Well, I believe you would be preparing for the coming competition. biggrin.gif Go for it. That fish u got can be in the dragon eyes category.

Anyway, Japan also got dragon eyes. If one ask how to see the diff, sorry to say, even the trained eyes also got difficulty doing so. I also make an bold guess on the pricing based on the possible place of import (at least I pretty close).

Stay cool ... ;)
ranchu8
hi becky_lass, i think you're fine fish2.gif pls do continue to post more, it's good to have different views smile.gif if ok, pls do post photos of other interesting or nice fishes you have smile.gif

hi tomato, seems like you're active again ... good to hear from you smile.gif
ranchu8
QUOTE(becky_lass @ Thu, 09 Feb 2006 3:57 pm)
It was swimming with some Japanese tosakins in the same tank.
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hi, how much were the tosakins sold for and their sizes pls? do they sell Japanese top view ranchus too and if so, the range of price?
yamato38gunkei
I think it is time to show a real Tosakin tail smile.gif . I hope that this photo proves that the two other Goldfish have no Tosakin tail.

Regards,

Geert Coppens

IPB Image
GoldfisHub
QUOTE(yamato38gunkei @ Fri, 10 Feb 2006 1:42 am)
I think it is time to show a real Tosakin tail smile.gif .  I hope that this photo proves that the two other Goldfish have no Tosakin tail.

Regards,

Geert Coppens


*


Wow! This is a true beauty!!! Yep, comparing, the other two definitely not tosakin.
The Matrix
Now I hope this could be a pin up for another new knowledge for hobbyists.
KokiBali
Dear Geert and Tomato, do you mean that tosakin must has jagged tail? How about this one:

IPB Image

This kind of tosakin is commonly seen here in Jakarta. Never saw the jagged tail. Thanks for your enlightment.

Regards,
William
desireless
For Tosakins there are different grades too.

Take a look at the pictures of the famous Ogawa tosakins which Geert has taken during his trip to Japan:

http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.ph...opic=1750&st=15

You'll see beautiful tosai, nisai, oya tosakins there. Observe the tails too - you'll understand Geert's and tomato's point then.
KokiBali
Thanks, Desireless. So, the top grade tosakin should has jagged and curly tail stretched to the head? Wow, more difficult to find....

I heard that grooming tosakin is more difficult than ranchu? Even grooming TVR is more difficult than SVR. Is it true?

Thanks,
William.
desireless
Not really only that... there are certainlly many more things to look out for on tosakin tails. Maybe tomato or Geert or someone more versed with tosakins can elaborate more.

For an instance, look at the big tail lobe formed.

IPB Image

Compare this lobe with the ones you have posted, which are mostly pointed. Maybe they will improve as they grow bigger but I would prefer those that forms a roundish lobe like those of Ogawa's.
The Matrix
QUOTE(KokiBali @ Mon, 13 Feb 2006 3:32 pm)
This kind of tosakin is commonly seen here in Jakarta. Never saw the jagged tail. Thanks for your enlightment.

Regards,
William
*


Indonesian breed tosakin. From one of the commercial breeder right ? Can't recall his name but I like his hair do ...
KokiBali
QUOTE
For an instance, look at the big tail lobe formed. Compare this lobe with the ones you have posted, which are mostly pointed. Maybe they will improve as they grow bigger but I would prefer those that forms a roundish lobe like those of Ogawa's.


Aah, I got your point now. Thanks for enlighting us, Desireless.

QUOTE
Indonesian breed tosakin. From one of the commercial breeder right ? Can't recall his name but I like his hair do ...


Matrix, do you mean Mr. Ever Tagoli? yes, he is quite famous breeder of TVR, tosakin, and other topview goldfish.

Regards,
William.
yamato38gunkei
QUOTE(KokiBali @ Mon, 13 Feb 2006 8:32 am)
Dear Geert and Tomato, do you mean that tosakin must has jagged tail? How about this one:



This kind of tosakin is commonly seen here in Jakarta. Never saw the jagged tail. Thanks for your enlightment.

Regards,
William
*



Dear William,

The Tosakin on this photo are very low quality. I think it must be babies from a low quality bloodline. A good bloodline is again very important.
Yes, Tosakin should have a jagged tail.

Regards,

Geert Coppens
yamato38gunkei
QUOTE(KokiBali @ Mon, 13 Feb 2006 10:27 am)
Thanks, Desireless. So, the top grade tosakin should has jagged and curly tail stretched to the head? Wow, more difficult to find....

I heard that grooming tosakin is more difficult than ranchu? Even grooming TVR is more difficult than SVR. Is it true?

Thanks,
William.
*



Hello William,

Tosakin are not necessarily more difficult to develop than Ranchu. They only have to be developed differently. As in all Goldfish breeds, quality of the babies mainly depends on the quality of the bloodline.
High quality Tosakin are very rare, even in Japan.

Regards,

Geert Coppens
KokiBali
QUOTE
The Tosakin on this photo are very low quality. I think it must be babies from a low quality bloodline. A good bloodline is again very important.
Yes, Tosakin should have a jagged tail.
Tosakin are not necessarily more difficult to develop than Ranchu. They only have to be developed differently. As in all Goldfish breeds, quality of the babies mainly depends on the quality of the bloodline.
High quality Tosakin are very rare, even in Japan.

Regards,

Geert Coppens


Thanks, Geert. Mr. Ogawa's tosakin is so beautiful, very tempting.......
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