QUOTE(goldrush @ Mon, 10 Jul 2006 12:35 pm)
OK .............Name me some Ammonia consumung algae then
Wah lau eh...
I might as well count my hair. There are tens of thousands algae names to look into - Even if you ask a Prof in this field, he won't be able to tell you specifically. In outdoor green water like rivers or reservoirs, it is not uncommon to find a few species of algae co-existing. So it is ok that we generalize green water algae with the term "phytoplankton".
Anyway, this is a very interesting discussion. I too, am unable to find a convincing schematic diagram of "How green water algae eats ammonia?" process (I'm interested in knowing how the mechanism takes place, like how I learn about nitrogen cycle). Yet, there are many materials online that directly or indirectly indicate that ammonia is the source for green water algae.
For example (let's take euglena sp. as example):
http://www.utoronto.ca/env/jah/lim/lim06f99.htm"
EUGLENOPHYTA (Euglenoids) - Relatively large and diverse group but few species are truly planktonic. Most are unicellular but lack a cell wall and possess 1-3 flagella arising from an invagination of the external membrane. Most are P/S and facultatively heterotrophic. Nutrition is supplemented by the uptake of ammonia and DON. Euglenoids are found most often in seasons, depth strata, or lake systems in which ammonia and especially [DON] are high. (e.g., Euglena, Phacus) "
http://www.aquariumfish.com/aquariumfish/d...784&search=Two things are important in controlling algae: nutrients in the water and sunlight. Planktonic algae uses ammonia (not nitrates) in the water as a nutrient. Installing a biological filter and a pump that turns the pond water over about 18 times per day should eliminate the ammonia and cause the algae to die off. If the pond holds less than 1000 gallons of water, you can make a simple biological filter by putting gravel in a 30-gallon garbage pail and pumping pond water through it at a rate of 800 gallons per hour. (Notice that this is a good example: It is teaching one how to remove green water by installing a bio-filttation. To ensure ammonia is taken in by the filtration faster than the green water algae)
If you google algae blooms that involve
Euglena sp, (read specifically on researches/reports), you will notice that authors will usually credit algae blooms to high concentration of Ammonia, Nitrate, and other nitrogen compound. Notice that they specifically indicate ammonia in these reports.
Examples like these:
http://squeezethepulp.com/viewtopic.php?t=...a367237daf20dd9"
The algae bloom in University Lake was identified as Euglena---which thrives on ammonia and is often associated with farm ponds, said Linda Ehrlich, owner of Spirogyra, the Burlington company that identified the euglena in the lake."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...p;dopt=Abstract"
Red blooms of Euglena sp. in the floodplain wetland ecosystems of Barak Valley, Assam, India, were found to be induced by high concentrations of NH3-N, NO3, Fe, Mg and to some extent, PO4, Cu and Zn in their water. The trace elements were rapidly accumulated by the bloom organisms to high levels, whereby their concentrations in the water declined, leading to a collapse of the bloom, which tended to reappear as decomposition again led to the release of the nutrients. The bloom also harboured fairly high density of certain other algae and zooplankton, thereby acting as a sub-system within the wetland ecosystem. The bloom is non-toxic and is exploited as a fish food by the fish-farmers who artificially induce a bloom for augmenting the growth of surface-feeding species of fishes."
The only time that I read about bacteria working in harmony with algae is here:
http://people.westminstercollege.edu/facul...pages/algae.htm"
Oxygen is generated by photosynthetic algae. It becomes trapped under its crust, and waves break the domes, releasing the gas as bubbles. Algae are the principle primary producer of organic matter in the North arm, which has been found useful to the bacteria. Algae depend on ammonia directly, and bacteria produce ammonia from organic matter containing nitrogen. Algae supply organic nutrients and stimulate the growth of bacteria to a remarkable degree."
The bacteria mentioned here is
not the nitrifying bacteria (Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter) that we know so well of, but rather it is one that is involved in the process called "Nitrogen Fixation". In short, this is a process involving a family of bacteria that converts the inert N2 in the atmosphere into other useful nitrogen compounds like ammonia. The diagram above best describe a closed cycle in which that bacteria produces ammonia to the algae while algae produces organic nutrient for the bacteria. Focus at the "ALGAE" box - the arrow points from the "NH3" (ammonia) box
These are reports involving Euglena sp. I've read that Euglena is red/brown in colour so I am not entirely convinced that this is the kind that is in abundance in the green water that we see.
Lastly in this report on "phytoplankton" in Lake Powell in Australia, it is mentioned that:
http://www.clw.csiro.au/publications/techn...001/tr44-01.pdfPage [41 of 85]
"
The occurrence of phytoplankton blooms in Lake Powell and Marbellup Brook are strongly influenced by nutrient release of soluble inorganic phosphate (FRP) and ammonia (N-NH3) from sediments and periodic influxes of nutrients from catchment sources. In addition..."
It seems to me that
it is generally and widely accepted by researchers on green water algae that ammonia is the nutrient needed by such algae.
====
Of course what you've proposed is indeed a perfect situation. Green Water algae produces oxygen for BB to nitrify ammonia to nitrate, which in turn is fed by the algae. But in the absense of ammonia, the chance for existence of BB is incredibly low, because there is no nutrient (ammonia) for them to thrive on! So meaning to say, if your outdoor green water pond is full of algae and
somehow you're able to find that BB exist in abundance, chances are that you're not getting the correct algae (that feeds on ammonia).
QUOTE(goldrush @ Tue, 11 Jul 2006 8:42 pm)
...
A good example would be a well established pond with excellent filtration system.But because of increased hours of sunlight,increased nitrates precipitation,we still experience algae bloom….Isn’t this a clear example of co-exsistence of the two within the same pond?Probably the only problem would be clogging of your mechanical filters which may lead to reduced nitrification processes as a result and the consequences are pretty self explanatory. ;)
Ahhh... This phenomenal is explained here:
(I think the author mixed up NH3 with NH4.)
http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/mont...8/msg00269.htmlNonetheless, he did mention that
"
I've shown this to happen in numerous tanks and have repeated the same findings in controlled tanks. Keep adding a fish/shrimp etc till you hit a breaking point where the system starts to become unstable and the algae blooms begin. That's the max NH4 uptake the tank can handle without getting algae. NH4 is something you need to balance and have very little of in your tank. You get too much and you'll get all sorts of algae depending on the lighting level. "
Of course I am in no position to endorse what he said. Neither do I know who this guy is to believe in him completely.
But what he says makes sense. His argument is that ammonia is the main "actor" behind the green water bloom in an established clear water system, not nitrate. So one has to learn on how to control ammonia, by not overstocking his aquarium (which is what we have been telling newbies over and over again). But an algae bloom will only happens IFF there is abundant sunlight AND you overstocked until a point where your filtration can't take in anymore ammonia released by the fishes.