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goldrush
hi.gif

Here are some latest pic of my baby ranchus that were featured under purchases from the dark side.Now for the purpose of unbiased opinion I have scrambled the pic without any indication of which fish are under what kind of water.Now all fishes are fed 5 times a day in addition to 2 meals of blood worms.Please take note on this

*ALL THE FISHES ARE FED ON ONE PORTION OF HIKARI LIONHEAD,ONE PORTION OF SAKI HIKARI AND ANOTHER PORTION OF RANCHU LORD*

all premixed in a autofeeder dispensing at about 2 hours interval

All fishes enjoy full sun/outdoor environment.
Green water is changed on a weekly basis while clear water has a daily 30% change


Lets begin.........

A

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B
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C
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D
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E
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F
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I take my leave for your contemplation

bye.gif bye.gif bye.gif

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CP
A,C,D in green water.

B,E,F in clear water.

How do I tell? From the pics,not the fish. hysterical.gif

It is difficult to tell whether a blackie is raised in green water or clear water. Its blackness is not affected by whether it is green water or clear water.
goldrush
Here is a short video of one of the better developed blackies which just refuse to stay still mad.gif




and make your final conclusion
BLuk
B,C,E,F green water
white horse T1
blackness is more to do with gene than green water or algae walled CW.



someone has say that the blackness will fade in green water, not sure abt whether it is myth or not but i do know of someone who has blackie swimming in green water since less than 2 inches until it reach 4.5 inch, it is still totally black.
kitsilano
A,D and F.....in green water. From picture my opinion is that these three got better wen growth and more on the fatter side. Green water raised ranchus enjoy continuous and free feeding from the readily available planktons and other micro organisms. If you feed the same amount of food using auto feeder to the two group of ranchus...those raised in green water would enjoy more food which in my opinion contribute to better wen development and fatter body.
Ranchu Lover
QUOTE(white horse T1 @ Thu, 14 Sep 2006 1:20 pm) *

blackness is more to do with gene than green water or algae walled CW.
someone has say that the blackness will fade in green water, not sure abt whether it is myth or not but i do know of someone who has blackie swimming in green water since less than 2 inches until it reach 4.5 inch, it is still totally black.

It would be great if you could arrange a photo of this black ranchu to be taken from a glass tank. Have you seen this ranchu in a glass tank?
white horse T1
QUOTE(Ranchu Lover @ Fri, 15 Sep 2006 11:08 am) *

It would be great if you could arrange a photo of this black ranchu to be taken from a glass tank. Have you seen this ranchu in a glass tank?




yes, i ve seen this in CW w/o algae glass tank and i ve seen it swimming behind black oyama background before and cannot see it . confirm pitch black.

unfortunately that someone is not in the habbit to take pictures as well.



should let doc reveal the mystery as i am also eager to know the answer on his experiment unsure.gif .
Kinder
QUOTE(CP @ Thu, 14 Sep 2006 1:46 am) *

A,C,D in green water.

B,E,F in clear water.

How do I tell? From the pics,not the fish. hysterical.gif

It is difficult to tell whether a blackie is raised in green water or clear water. Its blackness is not affected by whether it is green water or clear water.



I AGREE with CP!......and its impossible to tell if raised in green water or CW.
overall all look good, specially the one in video clip, quite energetic.
Oh staying on that topic....does anybody believe/noticed that black ranchus when compared to coloured ones are more stronger/hardier?
goldrush
blink.gif

I notice the regulars(except cp) refrain from commenting on the above outcome.Any reasons for one's refusal to partake in this exercise???

Honestly I conduct this mini experiment to share with you my own personnal inference and even though the results may not be conclusive it certainly can pave way for others to conduct separate experiments to substantiate my findings.

My observation

Myth 1
There is no reason why you cannot keep blackies in green.There is no lost in blacks.As some have noticed,the growth of wen,the girth and overall balance is noteworthy to comment(I am speaking as one who doesn't practice green water in my usual practice....so you can rest assured it is an unbiased statement)

Myth 2
There is no lost of coloration nor discoloration as a result of feeding the above 3 feeds mentioned neither was there a collapse of green water with the probiotic feed.

Useful tip
Blacks are good indicated of impending troubles that may surface if the latter is not rectify.The black will lose its lustre and assume a more brownish/golden hue(especially towards the finnage areas)if there is/are shortfalls in your parameters.But be assured these are temporary and the charcoal black assumes once the parameters are rectified....if not sure do a total water change!!!!


goldrush
white horse T1
green water pplp supposd to belong to the stereotype stubborn spoon-fed pplp mah that refused to listen and accept new ideas. so got reputation to protect u know.... laugh.gif



in any case, whether algae wall or green water, they sure are healthy and look great. these are the babies u bought something back right?
white horse T1
doc, all blackies belly used to be all black before u dip them in CW and green water or not?
goldrush
Hello WHT1

Yes these are the same batch which were shown sometimes back.So to begin with all should know how their original conditions were.

There were no significant loss of color in either setup but the ones in the green seem to be more robust,better head growth and slightly bigger.



You mean GREEN PPL like that one................then better stay away from too much


GREENNNNNNNNNN... thinking.gif
desireless
QUOTE(goldrush @ Fri, 15 Sep 2006 12:53 pm) *

blink.gif

I notice the regulars(except cp) refrain from commenting on the above outcome.Any reasons for one's refusal to partake in this exercise???

Because there's no need to argue until face red like some other discussions which I have read before. I have personally seen hugh charcoal black ranchu raised in green water. Even more examples from other species like moor, pearlscales, etc.

But those are not my fishes so I do not have pictures to show as proof. In this experiment, the pictures say a thousand words. One look, all 5 pictures showed no disparity in their blackness, that's enough to tell about effect of green water on black goldfishes. On top of that, it is more convincing that the experiment is done by someone like you, unbiased and with no hidden agenda. yes.gif This is a very very important point having read a topic somewhere else. hmm.gif

QUOTE(goldrush @ Fri, 15 Sep 2006 12:53 pm) *

Myth 2
There is no lost of coloration nor discoloration as a result of feeding the above 3 feeds mentioned neither was there a collapse of green water with the probiotic feed.


I am more interested in this. I have always thought Hikari Lionhead, due to its contents, might do something funny to the blackness.
The Matrix
QUOTE(goldrush @ Fri, 15 Sep 2006 12:53 pm) *

I notice the regulars(except cp) refrain from commenting on the above outcome.Any reasons for one's refusal to partake in this exercise???


Not I refused, but I do not see a common ground. Why ....

QUOTE(goldrush @ Wed, 13 Sep 2006 6:57 pm) *

Green water is changed on a weekly basis while clear water has a daily 30% change

That's the reason.

Maybe next time.
tappytap
hi.. does the food u feed have any effect on the blackness?
any colour food u feed?
from the video, i notice the poo are green
goldrush
QUOTE(tappytap @ Fri, 15 Sep 2006 9:24 pm) *

hi.. does the food u feed have any effect on the blackness?
any colour food u feed?
from the video, i notice the poo are green



Q1:No

Q2:Yes

Q3:That one kept in green water

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congratulation BLUK has the perfect score

Only pics BCEF comes from green water

A and D are from clear water with wall algae

cp nice try but I won't be so stupid to give away their keeping from the tank I took the pics nananana.gif
BLuk
I made the guest base on their fin, I found that when a fish kept under green water, their fin look stronger, so it does't matter what is the color of the fish.
ranchu8
QUOTE(BLuk @ Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:58 pm) *

I made the guest base on their fin, I found that when a fish kept under green water, their fin look stronger, so it does't matter what is the color of the fish.

Hi, thanks for the info. Can you pls say which fin you are referring to, or is it all the fins including the tail?
goldrush
Please refer to this thread for a better understanding of the original condition of the fishes involved



http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.ph...c=3496&st=0


All fish are never pitch black to begin with.They exhibit the brassy belly as noted by all the pics I have posted.But they have not lost their color whether in green or in clear and I have never state that it will becomes darker or improve its blackness in either practices.If by virtue of its gene or breed that are not truly pitch black then there is no way you can improve it whether in green or in clear.
BLuk
QUOTE(ranchu8 @ Sat, 16 Sep 2006 1:25 pm) *

Hi, thanks for the info. Can you pls say which fin you are referring to, or is it all the fins including the tail?


Hi ranchu8, It refer to all the fin, especially the tail fin, they will look more stronger and spread wider (hope you know what I mean), may be a little bit thicker,
goldrush
For those who are interested to read my scientific papers on the above here are the details of my thesis

Abstract:
The use of either clear water or green water in goldfish keeping is perceived with too much controversies and skepticisms. This study is not to address each benefits neither to expose either’s shortcomings. More importantly we compare the results with clinical proof ,pictures and even a video to show what the two different techniques can offer.It is up to each keeper to decide within each means like time and space to facilitate and fabricate his/her own technique of choice.
Because of the subjectivity of these two different concepts,it is important we view it with open mind and open heart without pride and prejudice.It is not my intention to belittle any techniques nor to endorse any in this short study.

Methods and Materials

Study population
A cluster of 4 black ranchus were chosen from a batch that was featured in an earlier post.I have chosen these for the following reasons
1)Similar size(no fish head,body or tail problem as highlighted by cp)
2)Similar source(bloodline assumed to be same)
3)Similar color :for ease of interpretation and assessment

Clinical Procedure

The ranchus were secregated in groups of two and introduce into their respective guppy tubs (3 footed black).The greens have just an airstone and water change is made on a weekly basis unless it turns uneasy green(dark green)
The clear has a daily changed of aged24 hours/hypo water of about 30%
Each tub were fed 5 meals a day in addition to 2 meals of frozen blood worms

Results

30 odd days later,the fish were physically observed.I must admit that no proper weight and length were taken prior to the experiment and results are purely visual rather than mathematically substantiated.But from the result we can visually conclude that fish kept in the green showed significantly better growth, as well as better headgrowth without any loss of original color.There is no improvement of color for both with respect to their belly brassy look.The result seems to indicate a better finish in fish kept in green which may possibly lead to improved health,appetite and stability.This fact enhances the choice of this option if keepers are more into overall well-being of his fishes

Here is a picture of the four fishes harvested within the same white enamel bowl for your perusal.Please note that the picture are never adulterated in any way to suit my findings

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If pictures can be altered, certainly I’m no Geogre Lucas nor Steven Speilberg to alter this video with special effects to enhance the movie in any way to suit my finding.




Incidental Findings

As both setup are fed with the same kind of feed(Hikari Lionhead,Saki,Hikari and Ranchulord)of which two carry color enhancers,surprisingly there were no significant loss of blacks nor red insertion which was previously noted to avoid in black keeping.

Conclusion

In goldfishkeeping,the choice of technique and method depend on each and individual judgement and satisfaction.To reach one’s objective,the keeper must understand specific conditions pertaining to ones keeping and work within his limits.Within the limits of this pilot study it appear at this primordial stage(30 odd days only) that when green water is selected as an initial reference,it allows the keeper to achieve faster growth,better wen development and overall vigor of the fishes



Goldrush et al 2006


Please note that the author is never a green water practitioner as most of you know.


If you ask me, is there magic in GREEN as in GOLD or GOLD as in GREEN




















My answer would be………………………………..A Billion Chinese can’t be wrong!! hysterical.gif
The Matrix
Try another very difficult experiment ... with these conditions :

1. Same water vol, same line of fish, same air souce, same water source, same water change schedule, same food, feeding period, feed amount and same amount water change (everything as close as possible lah).

2. Use combine coloration fish like red/black and blue

3. use only long tailed fish, best to be oranda ( dun bother to look for blue oranda or ryukin ... u dun want to use ultra expensive fish to do experiment ). Easiest to find of course is dragon eyes.

u will love the result.
ranchu8
QUOTE(goldrush @ Wed, 20 Sep 2006 6:30 pm) *

Clinical Procedure

The ranchus were secregated in groups of two and introduce into their respective guppy tubs (3 footed black).The greens have just an airstone and water change is made on a weekly basis unless it turns uneasy green(dark green)
The clear has a daily changed of aged24 hours/hypo water of about 30%
Each tub were fed 5 meals a day in addition to 2 meals of frozen blood worms

Hi Goldrush, were the tubs filled to the brim?; approximately how many litres for each of the 2 tubs? I suppose no algae in the clear water tub?
goldrush
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Wed, 20 Sep 2006 9:49 pm) *

Try another very difficult experiment ... with these conditions :

1. Same water vol, same line of fish, same air souce, same water source, same water change schedule, same food, feeding period, feed amount and same amount water change (everything as close as possible lah).

2. Use combine coloration fish like red/black and blue

3. use only long tailed fish, best to be oranda ( dun bother to look for blue oranda or ryukin ... u dun want to use ultra expensive fish to do experiment ). Easiest to find of course is dragon eyes.

u will love the result.



No more tubs, no more fish lah...............Give me a break

lazy.gif lazy.gif lazy.gif


QUOTE(ranchu8 @ Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:33 pm) *

Hi Goldrush, were the tubs filled to the brim?; approximately how many litres for each of the 2 tubs? I suppose no algae in the clear water tub?



Honestly I have not calculated the exact capacity however the tubs are not filled to the brim but short of the overflow drainage that comes with each tub

And for the sake of not including any variables,they are rid off any wall algae in this exercise


regrds

goldrush
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