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Full Version: Wat Can I Do To Make My Blackie Even Blacker
RafflesGold Forums > Discussion Area > Fancy Goldfish
FiSh_23
hi i wish to as a newbie question, how to i recover the black colour of a blackie if it's scale is getter more gold ? if a blackie has gold scale is it consider a lousy quality black SVR?
fei miao
Hi,
Would all the experts here care to share on the upkeep to retain the "blackness" in the colours for goldfish such as Black ranchus, butterflies and moors. My previous experience with these colours always tends to fade to a brownish tint after sometime.

Would feeds, genes & water conditions plays a part here? Thanks in advance! bigwink.gif
fei miao
Any gurus care to advise??? blink.gif
desireless
It is usually genetic. Food wise, do not feed anything with red colour enhancer.
CyberET
bad water condition sometimes play a part smile.gif
goldrush
Multifactorial! My summary


General:Genetic
Environmental
Parameters:water conditions
Light Source:duration,direction
Food:no carotenoid based food

IMO:One of the most difficult skill to master in goldfishing laugh.gif
FiSh_23
hmmm about not feeding food wif red enchancer, is feeding hikari lionhead and saki hikari safe ?
chandramerpati
QUOTE(FiSh_23 @ Thu, 04 Jan 2007 2:55 am) *

hmmm about not feeding food wif red enchancer, is feeding hikari lionhead and saki hikari safe ?


Hikari Lionhead has red color enhancer. The effect will take time around 1-2 months. Not recommended to be fed to Black Fish. Saki Hikari is also has the same red-enhancer effect.

I recommend Hikari Wheat Germ.

One more thing to keep the black color: Sunlight will play role to make it black but watch out the temperature. High temperature tends to make red color enhances. So it will be tricky to have benefit of sunlight without raising the temperature. rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif

Thanks.
gohks
Also, any trace of Cl2 or its compound in the water will be detrimental due to its bleaching effect biggrin.gif
gohks
There are ways, see mine biggrin.gif
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chochiss
waisheh.....gohks....share share lar some general knowledge in keeping blackies???
goldrush
Show you some pics of A Super Black.These pics are taken with flash mode and you can see very little reflection of any metallic scale even at the belly area.No camera tricks


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goldrush
Now this is a video clip of another black which has regain its blackness after I have tried a couple of unorthodox methods biggrin.gif









Enjoy good_very.gif
mickey85
Back in the day, when I kept a couple black moors, they started to redden up, but then I stuck them in a tub outside with a bunch of duckweed and water sprite, and their color came right back. They were in half-shade (afternoon sun) to keep the plants going. The natural food (bug larvae and duckweed), as well as "natural" conditions (i.e. outside, temp changes, etc) made them go straight to black again after about a month of being in the tub.
ranchu8
wah Goldrush, looks like you've struck gold wink.gif is it ok to say what are the unorthodox methods? smile.gif
goldrush
Here is one that failed after 3 weeks trial

A mirror inserted below to reflect the sun against its belly hmm.gif



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goldrush
And reading lots of scientific papers on behaviour of melanophores and fish coloration in relation to environment ,diet etc...such as some these references below



http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerende...amp;pageindex=1


http://www.lib.noaa.gov/japan/aquaculture/...eport28/Ako.pdf


http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/reprint/14/1/79.pdf


This is what you can achieve

goldrush
Some of the extracted articles from reutable biological journals have research papers on the relevant subject above.

One of the most interesting I have read is this extract below(sorry can't recall exact site)

Genetics aside,the chromatophores of teleost (higher bony fish which include goldfish)is discussed below to allow us to biologically manipulate within our means to enhance the pigmentation of our fishes.
It has been found that the degree of pigmentation are very much dependent on the background on which the fish are kept.Please note that melanophore(pigment cell that contain melanin)are found to be dispersed when fish are kept in dark backgrounds and appear in concentration when kept in light backgrounds.
Another observation made is that the number of melanophores are significantly increased in dark phase and decreased when kept in light phase
ranchu8
Thanks Goldrush, is there any difference between chromatophores/melanophores for black colour vs for red colour as regards whether it is preferable for the black fish to feed on green water algae and/or wall algae (or not to feed with either/both) pls?
goldrush
Another reference to support the significance of color enhancement through microalgae ingestion is written in this

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/full/...95.2003.00233.x but you need an online subscription to read the text in detail.

But below is what I have extracted out for your perusal.


Koi carp and goldfish value increases with intensity of skin colour, which is an important quality criterion. Fish cannot fully synthesize their own carotenoid colourings and these must therefore be included in their diet. Two trials were undertaken to investigate skin colour enhancement in ornamental species (i.e. three chromatic varieties of koi carp (Cyprinus carpio), namely Kawari (red), Showa (black and red) and Bekko (black and white) and goldfish (Carassius auratus)) by feeding a dietary carotenoid supplement of freshwater microalgal biomass [Chlorella vulgaris, Haematococcus pluvialis, and also the cyanobacterium Arthrospira maxima (Spirulina)], using a diet containing synthetic astaxanthin and a control diet with no colouring added for comparison. In the first trial, five homogeneous duplicate groups of 25 juvenile koi carp (C. carpio) (initial mean body weight 24.6 ± 0.7 g) were fed, for 10 weeks, one of the four diets containing 80 mg colouring/kg diet. In the second trial, this procedure was repeated for five homogeneous duplicate groups of 25 goldfish (C. auratus) (initial mean body weight of 0.9 ± 0.1 g). Initial and final samples of skin along the dorsal fin were withdrawn, from five fish per group, for subsequent analysis of total carotenoid content (spectrophotometric analysis), and red hue (colorimetric analysis, CIE (1976) L* a* b* colour system). Growth and feed efficiency were not significantly different between groups administered by the various dietary treatments. In both trials, dietary carotenoid supplementation increased total skin carotenoid content. The more efficient colouring for koi carps was found to be C. vulgaris biomass, providing both maximum total carotenoid deposition and red hue for the three chromatic koi carp varieties studied, and particularly for the kawari variety. For goldfish the best colouring obtained, as ascertained by total carotenoid content, was also achieved using C. vulgaris biomass, and red hue was maximum when using H. pluvialis biomass.


Not quite relevant for the blacks but certainly for the reds yes.gif
ranchu8
QUOTE(goldrush @ Wed, 29 Nov 2006 8:11 am) *

Multifactorial! My summary
General:Genetic
Environmental
Parameters:water conditions
Light Source:duration,direction
Food:no carotenoid based food

IMO:One of the most difficult skill to master in goldfishing laugh.gif

Hi Goldrush, sorry missed this post ie preferable not to have green water algae or wall algae?
goldrush
QUOTE(ranchu8 @ Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:44 pm) *

Thanks Goldrush, is there any fdifference between chromatophores/melanophores for black colour vs for red colour as regards whether it is preferable for the fish to feed green water algae and/or wall algae (or not to feed with either/both) pls?



Algae still play a significant role in overall well being of the fish(color digestion,immunity etc)but if the algae is from green water then the light intensity and wavelength may be altered to achieve its maximum effect due to its poor penetration in green water.Thus I would prefer wall algae cultivation in black keeping.
small_ranchu
Hi,
Here is a method by a person called 'awrieger'. I don't know the science behind it but this method works very well for me. And this is for indoor setup. All you have to do is put your fish under planted light (Gro-Lux, 67k or aqua-glo.) Then black color will not go away.
For reference with pictures I can give you link. For now I am not going to put a link since I am not sure does this forum allow to post a link to the other forum.
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