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hermanto
Friends, this is my tosakin. A little more than a year old. What do you think?
Regards. Hermanto

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TokyoRanchu
Don't mean to doubt you, but are you sure that is a little over a year old? Looks more like 3 given the tail shape.

Matt
desireless
Nice tail this tosakin has. Was it bred in indonesia or imported from Japan?
ranchu8
If measurement of age is the same as Ranchu, a little more than a year old means Nisai; looks about right in my inexperienced eyes and looks good too smile.gif
TokyoRanchu
Here's why I thought this was a three year old.

The results from the recent West Japan Tosakin Hozonkai:

http://www.geocities.jp/tosakin9/hozonkai_...oukai_2006.html

First Pics, Oya, Second set nisai, third Tosai.

Matt
hermanto
This was bred in Indonesia.
Well, seems that in Indonesia, fishes grow old quicker shiok.gif That's a common knowledge we know in Indonesia.
The male parent was from Japan (and it is still alive now in my pond). At what age do the Japanese usually sell the fish? 6 months old?
It was kept for three months in the pet store, until the store went bankrupt, and the fish was on sale. I took it. The tail was already very wide and impressive at that time.
Then I bred it for the first time, resulting in about 20 offsprings, that died suddenly at the age of 6 months. So that male parent is 1 years and 3 months.
Then there was a vacum for about six months until the female parent died. The male was 1 years and 9 months.
Then I took a common female ryukin, specifically choose the one with no hump and no split in the middle tail. I crossed it with the male parent, resulting in the F1. I did that because I could not find any good tosakin in Indonesia.
At the age of about 9 months, I crossed the F1 back to the male parent, resulting in this tosakin shown above. At that time, the male parent was about 2.5years.
If this F2 tosakin is now 3 years, then the male parent is now 5.5years, which is unbelievable in Indonesia, where the usual age of goldfish is about 3 years only.
I might not keep the time well, but am sure the age of this tosakin is not more than 2 years old. 1.5 years old is probable. If it is 1.5 years old, then the male parent is 4 years old - very old age in Indonesia. The male parent is still alive, but wont chase girls anymore. Won't even produce the sperm.
That's the history of this tosakin. So, the age is not more than 2.
Thank you for all your attention.
Hermanto
ranchu8
Hi Hermanto

Thank you very much for sharing; I think your breeding is solid! cheers.gif

In this website, Geert has kindly shared photos of Ogawa-san's Tosakin http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.ph...c=1750&st=0

If you do have photos of this or your other Tosakin, and the bowls/place where you keep your Tosakin, pls do post them if ok. I haven't seen any real life Tosakin as beautiful as yours smile.gif
yamato38gunkei
Dear Hermanto,

YOU HAVE BLOWN ME OUT OF MY CHAIR. Until a few years ago, I have bred Tosakin. I very well know how difficult it is to breed high quality Tosakin. I stopped keeping this breed because Ranchu AND Tosakin was just too labour intensive.

I like your Tosakin very much. I think it has a very beautiful tail.

I already found it very hard to believe that this Tosakin was not bred in Japan ; and that it was only Nisai. But telling us that this Tosakin is the F2 of Tosakin X Ryukin is too much for me to believe. Could you show us a photo of the father and of the F1 Tosakin X Ruykin ? I must tell you that I am very interested to see these fish.

Regards,

Geert Coppens
hermanto
Thanks friends,
I keep them for the first months of it in clay pots. Then I just put them in a pond with biological filter. Some worried that this will ruin the tail. But it is not the case.
These are the pictures requested by Mr Geert. Thanks for your compliment. I am still learning a lot. From all the offsprings, the one that resemble a good tosakin is only this one. None other. So, I am still struggling. And what more, no good female one to continue. I need to think again of what to do.


This is the male parent some years ago, close to the time I bought it. No date in the picture, I cannot trace it. Sorry.
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This is the male parent taken at March, 06.
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This is the F1. I only keep two of them, male and female. I am not sure if this is the male of female, but these are the only photos I keep. Showing the posture when the tail is wide open, and also when the tail closes. The tail is nice, but too flexible, like a dancing lady. I use this fish for a transition fish only, but somehow, it is hard for me to get rid of them. Cannot take them as tosakin, cannot take them as ryukin. No point to breed them, but cannot get rid of them. Well … The photos are taken at June, 06.
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This is the F2 taken at June, 06. The same fish as above. How the tail develop in some months only!
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chandramerpati
QUOTE(hermanto @ Mon, 18 Dec 2006 10:08 pm) *

This was bred in Indonesia.
Well, seems that in Indonesia, fishes grow old quicker shiok.gif That's a common knowledge we know in Indonesia.
The male parent was from Japan (and it is still alive now in my pond). At what age do the Japanese usually sell the fish? 6 months old?
It was kept for three months in the pet store, until the store went bankrupt, and the fish was on sale. I took it. The tail was already very wide and impressive at that time.
Then I bred it for the first time, resulting in about 20 offsprings, that died suddenly at the age of 6 months. So that male parent is 1 years and 3 months.
Then there was a vacum for about six months until the female parent died. The male was 1 years and 9 months.
Then I took a common female ryukin, specifically choose the one with no hump and no split in the middle tail. I crossed it with the male parent, resulting in the F1. I did that because I could not find any good tosakin in Indonesia.
At the age of about 9 months, I crossed the F1 back to the male parent, resulting in this tosakin shown above. At that time, the male parent was about 2.5years.
If this F2 tosakin is now 3 years, then the male parent is now 5.5years, which is unbelievable in Indonesia, where the usual age of goldfish is about 3 years only.
I might not keep the time well, but am sure the age of this tosakin is not more than 2 years old. 1.5 years old is probable. If it is 1.5 years old, then the male parent is 4 years old - very old age in Indonesia. The male parent is still alive, but wont chase girls anymore. Won't even produce the sperm.
That's the history of this tosakin. So, the age is not more than 2.
Thank you for all your attention.
Hermanto


Pak Hermanto,
You have succeed to make me starting to like Tosakin by this thread. good_very.gif
I just wondering if this green color stays and becoming dark green like Jade stone. shiok.gif shiok.gif shiok.gif
bekko
You have bred beautiful fish Hermanto. Did you have to hand spawn them or could they spawn on their own? Would you mind telling us how many you had to cull to get these pieces? I have read that tosakin breeders will occasionally back-crossed to ryukin to strengthen the line. You are very advanced.

-steve
hermanto
Yes, I use hand spawning method, Mr Steve. I didn't collect many eggs, since I didn't want to press the fish's stomach too hard. From around 200 hatchlings, there is only this one which is satisfying. Two more younger ones look promising. Some other 10 I keep, have nice flips in the tips of the tail just like this one, but the middle tail still sometimes resemble ryukin, I mean, cannot be said to be wide open all the time.
I don't think I am very advance. I just like tosakin, and have a hard time to find them around. The one that can be found in Indonesia is either the Chinese tosakin or the tosakin crossed with butterfly. That doesn't suit my taste. So after some thinking, I think the best cross is with low grade ryukin (or we call it just tosa in Indonesia). I choose a very young ryukin to pair up with my about 2.5 years old tosakin to ensure that the tosakin's gene is more dominant. I have never heard about the Japanese breeder occasionally cross their tosakin back with ryukin.
Actually, I had two male tosakin from Japan, but, wonderfully, those two have different characteristics. I crossed both with ryukin, with very different result smile.gif
Thank you.
Hermanto
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