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egwinh
my fish buffalo head is growing and it is beginning to covering its mouth completely. i believe he is having problem breathing. i am seriously considering cutting it open. any comments?
desireless
Can you please show a photo of how the wens is blocking the fish's mouth?
egwinh
oh,... it is shown in my avatar. as you can see the right cheek wen is going inside his mouth. so as he breaths, this bubbler of fat is moving in and out....

IPB Image
gohks
Your fishes look very old, how long you having them rusure.gif
desireless
This is not so bad. Will not cause breathing problem. Imagine pom-pom goldfish.... biggrin.gif

But yes if you think trimming is neccesary, then you can cut the excessive part no problem. You may want to dap JYP on the wound as preventive mesaures.
egwinh
my fish is only no more than 5 months.....
vakratunda
I wouldn't cut. Looks awesome yes.gif
CyberET
i would advise a trim with JYP as desireless advised if the wen causes a gagging effect on the fish
Dragonhead
Impressive head growth. What do you feed them?

Would cutting harm the fish? Just wondering.
peter porker
I am contemplating trimming the wen of my ranchu because of excessive and untidy head growth (I will post a picture soon).

I have read up on this procedure and it seems that the best way is to use a small pair of really sharp scissors and hold the fish just below the water line so that the portion you want to cut is more visible (as opposed to bringing the fish out of the water to cut).

The messy growth is concentrated on the top of its head so that shouldn't be a problem.

However, its eyes are completely covered too so my question is, has anyone attempted trimming the wen from the fish's eyes before?
WorkTheMiddle
You guys have to check out this wen surgery procedure.
http://thegab.org/Articles/SurgeryWen.html
gohks
QUOTE(peter porker @ Wed, 20 Jun 2007 3:34 pm) *


I have read up on this procedure and it seems that the best way is to use a small pair of really sharp scissors and hold the fish just below the water line so that the portion you want to cut is more visible (as opposed to bringing the fish out of the water to cut).

The messy growth is concentrated on the top of its head so that shouldn't be a problem.

However, its eyes are completely covered too so my question is, has anyone attempted trimming the wen from the fish's eyes before?

PP,
Yes, you can trim the wen around the eyes too, just follow the circumference around the eyes on the cheek.
With the way you suggest doing, it will be difficult as the fish will struggle like hell with lots of splashing. 2 ways you can try minimimizing this:-
i) Anesthesia with clover oil;
ii) Wrap the fish tight with a cloth submerge in water and perform the ops.
biggrin.gif
peter porker
QUOTE(gohks @ Wed, 20 Jun 2007 5:19 pm) *

PP,
Yes, you can trim the wen around the eyes too, just follow the circumference around the eyes on the cheek.
With the way you suggest doing, it will be difficult as the fish will struggle like hell with lots of splashing. 2 ways you can try minimimizing this:-
i) Anesthesia with clover oil;
ii) Wrap the fish tight with a cloth submerge in water and perform the ops.
biggrin.gif


cheers..one more question...where can one find clover oil and what's the proper usage for this product?

i.e. Does it knock the fish out straightaway? Do I have to soak the fish intermittently to keep it sedate? Dosage each time to use? How to I revive the fish?

These are jsut some questions from the top of my head; in the meantime, let me use the search function.

haha...did the search and it led me to.......





























....this thread... hysterical.gif
bekko
We get clove (not clover) oil at the pharmacy. It is used for tooth pain. It comes in a really small brown bottle, but you do not need very much. It smells like cloves.

The recommended dose is one drop per liter (0.02 ppm). The water needs to be mixed vigorously as it is difficult to dissolve the clove essence in the water. Some people first mix clove oil with an equal amount of vodka or gin to help it dissolve in the water. If you mix the water with you hand the clove oil will stick to your skin and you will smell like cloves for the rest of the day.

Put the fish in the water with clove oil long enough to get the desired effect. You can just slow the fish down a little to be able to handle it without too much struggling, or you can knock it out completely. Do not leave it in the clove oil water any longer than you need to in order to get the job done. Do not leave the fish in the water with clove oil after it is knocked out and lying on its side. After anesthetizing the fish, move it to clean water if you need more time to finish the procedure. If the fish wakes up too much, you can put it back in the clove oil again.

It may take 10 to 15 minutes before it rolls over. If it does not seem to be working, it is probably because you need to mix the water more. If necessary you can increase the dose a little. But, at a does of three drops per liter with very good mixing you are in danger of killing the fish. Better to take your time and knock it out slowly.

-steve
peter porker
QUOTE(bekko @ Wed, 20 Jun 2007 6:16 pm) *

We get clove (not clover) oil at the pharmacy. It is used for tooth pain. It comes in a really small brown bottle, but you do not need very much. It smells like cloves.

The recommended dose is one drop per liter (0.02 ppm). The water needs to be mixed vigorously as it is difficult to dissolve the clove essence in the water. Some people first mix clove oil with an equal amount of vodka or gin to help it dissolve in the water. If you mix the water with you hand the clove oil will stick to your skin and you will smell like cloves for the rest of the day.

Put the fish in the water with clove oil long enough to get the desired effect. You can just slow the fish down a little to be able to handle it without too much struggling, or you can knock it out completely. Do not leave it in the clove oil water any longer than you need to in order to get the job done. Do not leave the fish in the water with clove oil after it is knocked out and lying on its side. After anesthetizing the fish, move it to clean water if you need more time to finish the procedure. If the fish wakes up too much, you can put it back in the clove oil again.

It may take 10 to 15 minutes before it rolls over. If it does not seem to be working, it is probably because you need to mix the water more. If necessary you can increase the dose a little. But, at a does of three drops per liter with very good mixing you are in danger of killing the fish. Better to take your time and knock it out slowly.

-steve


Cheers Steve.

Further questions, more of a clarification.

You are saying that it should take 10-15 mins to knock the fish out yes?

Anything longer could imply 2 things: 1) oil not mixed with water or 2)could kill the fish

So it should, as you put it, roll over yes?

After the procedure, is it then alright to put the fish straight back into the community tank?

Many thanks in advance.

PP
bekko
The fish in not in any danger as long as it is swimming around. Just don't knock it out and leave it in the clove oil because it will continue to absorb the oil and become more and more comatose. You can put it back in the community tank to recover.

-steve
peter porker
went around 3 pharmacies today. seems like clove oil is out of stock in Guardian. weird.
goldrush
halo pp

The active ingredient in oil of cloves is Eugenol.As stated it is not very dilutable in water but you can dilute it in alcohol at 1:2.It is available at most pharmacies OTC purchase.Your dentist should have loads of it wacko.gif .It is one of the most effective ,cheapest and safest anesthesia around.

Here are some scientific papers written on its dosage and efficacy if you need to read further reading.


http://www-heb.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/congress/...cal/Roubach.pdf


http://www.aiep.pl/volumes/2000/6_2/pdf/01...Hajek_et_al.pdf




good luck
peter porker
Hi Goldrush...you mentioned the active ingredient...are you saying that they is a product purely with that ingredient? And that I should look for the product?
goldrush
clove oils contain a myriads of oils within of which eugenol is one that has the anaesthetic function.

Here read this for further clarifiction

http://www.webvitamins.com/Nutrient.aspx?id=1275
peter porker
Got it. Thanks.
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