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RafflesGold Forums > Discussion Area > Green Water, Filtration and Tank Setup
d_golem
After reading recent shoutbox posts, I'm starting to question my belief that a goldfish tank must have at least 10x tank volume/hour filter flowrate. A prominent member of the forum suggested only 1x flowrate and claimed only uses 2 sponge filters in his 4 ft tank.

I can see the logic in having 10x flowrate as goldfish are messy fish, but after reading some posts here and seeing that most of you guys only use air pump powered sponge filters, now I have some doubts about the 10x theory. Is that amount of flowrate really required to allow efficient filtration? Or is it only good for debris/poop control? Do simple air pump powered sponge filters provide adequate surface area for bacteria to grow to handle the amount of waste that goldfish produce?

Say u got two 200-litre tank. One is using 2 canisters with total flowrate of 2000l/h. One is using two large-sized sponge filters. Which one do you prefer?

I'm really interested in what the expert bros say.

Cheers
small_ranchu
worried.gif yes.gif
gerrard8
QUOTE(d_golem @ Sat, 24 Feb 2007 8:22 pm) *

After reading recent shoutbox posts, I'm starting to question my belief that a goldfish tank must have at least 10x tank volume/hour filter flowrate. A prominent member of the forum suggested only 1x flowrate and claimed only uses 2 sponge filters in his 4 ft tank.

I can see the logic in having 10x flowrate as goldfish are messy fish, but after reading some posts here and seeing that most of you guys only use air pump powered sponge filters, now I have some doubts about the 10x theory. Is that amount of flowrate really required to allow efficient filtration? Or is it only good for debris/poop control? Do simple air pump powered sponge filters provide adequate surface area for bacteria to grow to handle the amount of waste that goldfish produce?

Say u got two 200-litre tank. One is using 2 canisters with total flowrate of 2000l/h. One is using two large-sized sponge filters. Which one do you prefer?

I'm really interested in what the expert bros say.

Cheers


i would use cannister.. shiok.gif
The Matrix
i use green water in most tubs. no filter, rather natural filter.

my display tank using an overhead trickle ... even the pump is 1500L/H in my 6ft tank, probably working capacity only 700L/h or less since i restrict the flow. the other display tank only 2 air-powered sponge filter. best of the best. Well, that makes 2 of us now ...

to me, poop control is still poop in the tank or within the same eco-environment. nothing has change.
change water is still the best .... CHANGE WATER, CHANGE WATER, CHANGE MORE WATER ...

the bacteria dun eat the poop .... these are suppose to oxidize the nitrogen byproducts from the fish. it's not about how big the colony can be, but how efficient they can work on the resources.
gohks
No hard and fuss rule about filtration. For me if you decide to feed alot with less frequent water change, best is to overkill on your filtration (sponge, canister, OHF, sump all serve the same purposes, and you can even have combination of all of them). You need to ensure enough areation to saturate the DO but not to create too much turbulance (trial and error you would find the way).
On the other hand, if you decide to change water very frequent and restrict your feeds, minimum filtration or even no filtration will do. yes.gif
CyberET
its about whats dissolved in the water, not what u can see smile.gif

higher flow rate just provide faster mechnical filtration so that the water has lesser solids floating about.

as what matrix said, its still within the same enviroment.

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/water/ammonia.htm ;)

hehe, i'm prominent ah biggrin.gif
egwinh
for those who concern about poop, you might want to buy a hand-held-battery-operated poop collector. it works like a vaccum clearner.

i am using it and so far i am very satisfied. i ussually find alot of poop in the morning, and i just suck them all precisely with the collector..
d_golem
QUOTE(CyberET @ Sun, 25 Feb 2007 4:39 pm) *

higher flow rate just provide faster mechnical filtration so that the water has lesser solids floating about.

So say a particular canister filter with 1500l/h flowrate got X amount of surface area for bacteria to grow, and a really large sponge filter got the same X amount of surface area as the canister, they both got the same capacity for biological filtration then? and only the tank that got the canister looks cleaner (less solids floating around)?
CyberET
its more of increasing contact time between the bacteria, and the water. high flow rate tries to solve it by doing it many times, slow sponge filter slowly filters and makes sure everything gets done.

of course other factors like dissolved oxygen plays a part.

one main reason why a number of us uses sponge filter, is the ease of cleaning. i tried canister, and i hate the cleaning process.

the other reason is the water turbulence that high flow rate creates. delicate varients like bubble eyes may turn into burst eyes @ the water flow inlet.
d_golem
QUOTE(CyberET @ Sun, 25 Feb 2007 9:19 pm) *

one main reason why a number of us uses sponge filter, is the ease of cleaning. i tried canister, and i hate the cleaning process.

I agree with you on that. I love my canister, but hate the cleaning part tongue.gif

QUOTE(CyberET @ Sun, 25 Feb 2007 9:19 pm) *

its more of increasing contact time between the bacteria, and the water. high flow rate tries to solve it by doing it many times, slow sponge filter slowly filters and makes sure everything gets done.

Hmm....
So take my hypothetical canister filter and the sponge filter that both got the same X amount of bacterial growth area, both fully colonised. Put each in two tanks wiht identical volume. Add the same X amount of pure ammonia in both tanks. Will the canistered tank show nitrates faster? Will the end result be the same?

PS: Thx for your patience in answering my q's smile.gif
CyberET
hehe, i can't tell you, because theres no way to make every other variable constant. leave that to the scientists or doctor tongue.gif

in one pipe, the water moves faster, the other pipe is bigger, but the water moves slower, which gets the job done faster?

but i know one thing for sure, a sponge filter seems to matures faster than a canister filter. smile.gif

maybe someone can do a little experiment? i'll be interested to know the results. i only have 1 display tank :sad
gohks
We are trying to compare 2 different products here, and one is much more expensive then the other (reasons is clear without explanation). Both have their pros and cons and I have used them both and can summarize them without too much scientific prove.
For sponge filter, though it eases cleaning, maintenance freqeuncy got to be increased as at no time it will be cloaked with slime and particles and losses its efficiency. Also filtration efficiency is poorer as it only rely on air-pump and you can always see poos and particulate floating around. From aesthetic view, it looks ugly and take out precious space of your tank. Of course it comes cheaply and you can have many of them.
For canister, though it difficult to clean, you only need to clean and maintain by months. Efficiency will certainly be better and you can optimize with different filter medium which gives the flexibility of requirements. Areation will be good and you may be able to remove NO3 if you set it up correctly. It comes with a price.
Well I think there is no need to compare these 2 different products, as it all boils down on individual needs and one should use according to his way of fish upkeep which I mention previously biggrin.gif
The Matrix
just a question :

Since one type does not "suck" up the dirts, while another do have the "ability" to trap more of such dirt, then if this filter can possibly coated with slime and particles will lost the efficiency, doesn't the other type got worst faster ?
gerrard8
izzit a must to have 2type of filtration system??a LFS told us that 1OHF is not enough den he encourage us to buy 2more box filter to make the tank cleaner..dunno whether its true anot..i wanted to try out whether wad he said was true so i just bought to box filter to try out..
gohks
How to tell your filtration is enough?

My view is with heavy feeding and max fish load your water still can maintain crystal clear after a week, you just need to clear the wall as maintenance....BTW, I am talking about sustenance only biggrin.gif

Gerrard,
It's always good to have combination of at least 2 types, as they can complement the limitation of one another. A main one (the one need less maintenance) and a secondary one (a backup).
The Matrix
QUOTE(gerrard8 @ Mon, 26 Feb 2007 3:40 pm) *

izzit a must to have 2type of filtration system??a LFS told us that 1OHF is not enough den he encourage us to buy 2more box filter to make the tank cleaner..dunno whether its true anot..i wanted to try out whether wad he said was true so i just bought to box filter to try out..


LFS earned more money liao lor.
gerrard8
anyway,i got the 2 box filter up and running in my tank..just try out..anyway,no harm trying..
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