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Chinmo
hi Sirs! i be getting 2-3 tosakins this coming weekends... i'm planning to keep them in a 3by2 by 1 blue tub. issit okie to keep tosakain in square tub? can i use sponge filter for filteration? water be changed everyday 50%... be feeding them ranchu lord and saki hikari. peace.gif

Can all Tosakins keepers pls advice me what i can do better? beg2.gif
KokiBali
Hi Chinmo,

You can find useful info regarding tosakin in here: Tosakin for comment

Rgds,
William
hermanto
Hello
I use clay pots to keep my tosakin:
IPB Image

IPB Image


I use no filter nor aerator. I think this clay pot is superb, it is better than the cement pot. However, I don't know if you can find this kind of pot in Singapore? This kind of pot is very abundant in Indonesia, and very cheap. (Glad Indonesia still have something to be proud of, biggrin.gif biggrin.gif )
The alternatives are the cement pot. If not available, then the fiber tub can still be used.
The cement pot still need aeration, and must have a schedule to change the water. The schedule depends on the sunshine you get. If you put the pot in the cool shading place, the schedule can be longer. If you put it directly under the sun from morning to dawn, then you need to change it more often, might even consider once a day! And how much of green water do you tolerate? It will affect your schedule.
The worst alternative, but sometimes we have no choice, is to put the tosakin in a square fiber tub with biological filtration. Of course the fish can still live healthy and happy. But it doesn't promote the development of the tail (correct me if I am wrong). So if you must use it, then use all creativity to minimize the water current but still good water quality and oxygen.
From my experience, I conclude that tosakin needs:
1. small environment. (But not to small so as to prevent it from swimming freely) This smallness requires it to make a lot of stops in its swimming. So it doesn't have to move forward all the time, which will prevent the tail to open/bloom. I think this will train the fish to open its tail (flip), and will eventually make the tail grow beautifully.
2. no current. Similarly, water current will make the fish trying to counter the current by closing its flipping part of the tail, hence negatively affect the development of the flipping part of the tail.
3. water depth of about 20-30cm is enough.
4. Of course the fish still need oxygen!
Hope it helps.
Regards,
Hermanto
bekko
I too use a bowl for adults but the juveniles are in a plastic tub. The bowl is glazed ceramic, about 60 cm, and in a lanai under heavy shade. I cannot be trusted to keep up with water changes so there is a constant small trickle of water into the bowl. The trickle is via a siphon tube from an adjacent waterfall feature. Then the water overflows back into the adjacent pond. The pond is heavily filtered and under-stocked so there is no problem with water quality.

Sorry, the photo is out of focus.

-steve

IPB Image
hermanto
Nice garden, Mr Steve smile.gif
Yes, a constant small trickle of water is far more excellent than filtration in this case. I use it too. It doesn't create current.
Chinmo
QUOTE(hermanto @ Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:43 pm) *

Hello
I use clay pots to keep my tosakin:



I use no filter nor aerator. I think this clay pot is superb, it is better than the cement pot. However, I don't know if you can find this kind of pot in Singapore? This kind of pot is very abundant in Indonesia, and very cheap. (Glad Indonesia still have something to be proud of, biggrin.gif biggrin.gif )
The alternatives are the cement pot. If not available, then the fiber tub can still be used.
The cement pot still need aeration, and must have a schedule to change the water. The schedule depends on the sunshine you get. If you put the pot in the cool shading place, the schedule can be longer. If you put it directly under the sun from morning to dawn, then you need to change it more often, might even consider once a day! And how much of green water do you tolerate? It will affect your schedule.
The worst alternative, but sometimes we have no choice, is to put the tosakin in a square fiber tub with biological filtration. Of course the fish can still live healthy and happy. But it doesn't promote the development of the tail (correct me if I am wrong). So if you must use it, then use all creativity to minimize the water current but still good water quality and oxygen.
From my experience, I conclude that tosakin needs:
1. small environment. (But not to small so as to prevent it from swimming freely) This smallness requires it to make a lot of stops in its swimming. So it doesn't have to move forward all the time, which will prevent the tail to open/bloom. I think this will train the fish to open its tail (flip), and will eventually make the tail grow beautifully.
2. no current. Similarly, water current will make the fish trying to counter the current by closing its flipping part of the tail, hence negatively affect the development of the flipping part of the tail.
3. water depth of about 20-30cm is enough.
4. Of course the fish still need oxygen!
Hope it helps.
Regards,
Hermanto


Thank u mr hermanto sir! i would like to get a clay pot like urs!...... gotta go plant nursery search already! biggrin.gif

at present will let them stay in a plastic basin about 1.5ft diameter with 10 inch depth, but water will use like 4 -5 inch high.... will post pics once i got a stable home for them! good_very.gif


QUOTE(bekko @ Thu, 26 Jul 2007 2:49 am) *

I too use a bowl for adults but the juveniles are in a plastic tub. The bowl is glazed ceramic, about 60 cm, and in a lanai under heavy shade. I cannot be trusted to keep up with water changes so there is a constant small trickle of water into the bowl. The trickle is via a siphon tube from an adjacent waterfall feature. Then the water overflows back into the adjacent pond. The pond is heavily filtered and under-stocked so there is no problem with water quality.

Sorry, the photo is out of focus.

-steve




Very nice garden and waterfall feature! too bad my house in singapore so small blush.gif i will used your tricke method too as i can't change 100% water everyday too... biggrin.gif maybe 50% still can do. thank u very much for showing me oics of your setup.Thanks Mr Steve. good_very.gif
desireless
I find that in instances like this, a floating fruit basket may come in useful:
IPB Image

This is a simple yet useful tool that I have been using for the past few years after first seeing it in HappyBuddha's tub. It segregates the fishes within the basket from the "outside world" but at the same time letting them enjoy the benefits of a large volume of water. It is especially beneficial to injured fishes (torn fins) or keeping juvenile fishes from parents.


It may be applied to tosakin since two things must be observed:
- Low water current.
- Keeping the fishes within a compound hence restricting tosakins from swimming.

This is how it looks like biggrin.gif:
IPB Image

This fruit basket cannot ensure zero turbulance but it can certainly block most of the water current coming from the filter system and air system of the whole overall aquarium. You can see this by the ripples at the water surface - Slight or no ripple is observed within the basket perimeter. The best part to using this is that the holes on the basket ensure constant exchange of water.

And if you are worried that the current from the exchange of water through the hole may be too strong for your tosakins, then you can improvise by applying silicone gel randomly over the surface of basket and reducing the holes to say, 60%.
peter porker
You out did yourself this time, Desireless..... biggrin.gif

Piranhas?? tongue.gif
bekko
Desireless needs more tanks and more goldfish. He seems to have too much free time shiok.gif

=steve
desireless
Haha... that is one extreme application of the basket method. Do not try with piranhas nonono.gif hysterical.gif

You'll be surprised with what some people mix with goldfish though ohmy.gif
hermanto
Very nice idea, Mr Desireless.
Two small things need to be taken care of. First, the litlle holes in the bottom make the bloodworm or the sinking pellet goes through it. (There is special sinking pellet produced by the same producer of Japan Ranchu Lord called Tosa Queen, my friend bought it in Singapore some years ago) Is it possible to put something in the bottom of the basket? Second, the basket will constantly moving and when it reaches the water fall, if the current is too strong, the basket could flip over and the piranhas will be very happy. So I tied the basket to something that it will not move close to the water fall.

I imagine the tosakins will constantly sweat all the time thinking of their fate watching those piranhas watching and talking about them every day biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Regards,
Hermanto
desireless
Hi Pak Hermanto,

To ensure that sinking pellets do not getting through the holes, you can use use Silicone gel to seal the holes at the bottom of basket:
IPB Image
Just apply a bit of the gel on the base of the basket and swipe the gel across with a flat cardboard make sure it is evenly applied. On top of that, I always have one small "junk goldfish" outside of the basket to eat/finish the food (bloodworm) that flows out of the basket biggrin.gif


Yes, the outflow from the filter is quite a problem. But for my case (I apply this method in a 4-ft tank), I have extended the outflow pipe of my filter so that the exit of pipe is underwater. It solves this problem for my case but might not work for others though. Another problem that I have faced was the upwards force coming from the air bubble. Both will cause the basket to capsize like in this illustration:
IPB Image


For pond application, since we cannot address to these problems head-on by doing the respective corrective adjustments, we can "anchor" the basket like how ships anchor themselves. You can use a heavy weight tied by fishing line to secure the basket. Even when doing so, it is always advisable to give some slack, in case there is a rise in water level after rain or something. I am sure most ponds adopt the overflow system so there is always a maximum height that the water can go to. Yet, most pond users do not fill water up to the max. I'll let the following illustration explains:
IPB Image
KokiBali
QUOTE(hermanto @ Sat, 28 Jul 2007 5:11 am) *

First, the litlle holes in the bottom make the bloodworm or the sinking pellet goes through it. (There is special sinking pellet produced by the same producer of Japan Ranchu Lord called Tosa Queen, my friend bought it in Singapore some years ago) Is it possible to put something in the bottom of the basket?


Hi, Pak Her.

I covered the bottom of the basket with a mosquito net biggrin.gif

IPB Image

Rgds,
William
chandramerpati
QUOTE(hermanto @ Sat, 28 Jul 2007 7:11 am) *

I imagine the tosakins will constantly sweat all the time thinking of their fate watching those piranhas watching and talking about them every day biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Regards,
Hermanto


Pak Hermanto,

And when the tosakins constantly sweat, they will produce more amonia thru their sweat.
Finally, all tosakins and piranhas will die together happily ever after.
hysterical.gif hysterical.gif hysterical.gif
hermanto
Good idea, Mr William.
Mr Chandra, next time use arapaima instead of piranhas. It will swallow not only the tosakin but also the bucket, I think. biggrin.gif
Chinmo
Thanks u so much for the help and advices..... in the end i not getting the tosakins... as they not well due to past few days rain..... the boss says will update me when they well and ready for sale again. blush.gif
hermanto
Thank you for your illustration, Mr Desireless. You make that all by yourselves? Fantastic! Very clear.
mountain
Remember to take care of the Poo.
The depth must be deep enough if you are using sinking pellets so that the body don't rub against the basket when it swims down. But i use floating pellets in these baskets.

Can use it when you want to view butterflies. Enjoyable moments.
CyberET
such damn claypots in singapore are expensive.. i know.. cause i wanted to get one.. sad.gif
either that, or they leak water all over the floor..
kena $#@% by CO

ok.. enough of digging up old postings..
hermanto
Hi CyberET biggrin.gif
yes, the new pot will leak water. But after a while (sooner if it get lots of sunshine), the leak will stop. Can be two weeks or a month. The tiny holes (pores) along its wall is what make it unique. Those pores enlarges the water surface that interacts with air - so those pores provide the water with more oxygen, lower the temperature within the pot, and I guess those pores also become the house for good bacteria.

Regards,
Hermanto
CyberET
bought a smaller one, similar to the one beside the "waterfall", water went over 33deg, almost fried the expensive fish. bigger pot was too expensive, when i shift it into the shade, which is indoor, it leaks and stain the marble floor..

anyway i got bored, dump it into a 3ft tub and went back to pearls. lol.gif
bekko
The only large pots we can buy are imported from Indonesia. They are beautiful and they have a shiny glaze on the surface. No pores, but they do not leak either.

-steve
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