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stan
Hi, i just found this web site,

I posted above topic on above at arofanatics, thought i would post it here to get better response.

What is the difference between a Lionhead and a ranchu?

Lionhead-- much head growth, short stout body, small tail.

Ranchu- less head growth, longer body, open tail.

Or
Liohead is for side view,
Ranchu for top view,

Are these 2 species of fish or the same fish bred differently to have different attributes.[COLOR=orange][SIZE=7]


someone pls enlighten,
void
to my understanding...

lionhead has more masive head growth than ranchu...

lionhead has straighter back (their backs do not really arch that nicely)... when view top or side view, they look like swimming chicken drumsticks... biggrin.gif

those ranchus that have massive headgrowth are supposed to be called lionchu?!?

1st pic: lionhead
2nd pic: ranchu


HappyBuddha
A drumstick. biggrin.gif

IPB Image

I believe we coined the name "Lionchu" not too long ago in AF.

It was meant to poke fun at lionhead fishes that LFS pass off as ranchus.

Some, however, have since mistaken the term Lionchu as Ranchu with a Lionhead type of head. To me this type of ranchu is a "Lionhead Ranchu", not a "Lionchu"! These Lionhead Ranchu are beautiful fishes.

Lionchu are butt ugly "ranchu".
Greenhorn Yeo
I think the price is quite different. The other day when I went AC, the lion head cost about $80 but the top quality ranchu from thailand cost more than $100. If that's the case, I prefer the lion head, nicer and cheaper. shiok.gif
void
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Fri 12 Mar 2004 09:53 AM)
A drumstick.  biggrin.gif

I believe we coined the name "Lionchu" not too long ago in AF.

It was meant to poke fun at lionhead fishes that LFS pass off as ranchus.

Some, however, have since mistaken the term Lionchu as Ranchu with a Lionhead type of head.  To me this type of ranchu is a "Lionhead Ranchu", not a "Lionchu"!  These Lionhead Ranchu are beautiful fishes.

Lionchu are butt ugly "ranchu".

thanks for clearing up, HB... i almost got conned by the term lionchu... biggrin.gif
void
QUOTE(Greenhorn Yeo @ Fri 12 Mar 2004 09:55 AM)
I think the price is quite different. The other day when I went AC, the lion head cost about $80 but the top quality ranchu from thailand cost more than $100. If that's the case, I prefer the lion head, nicer and cheaper. shiok.gif

well, it's kind of difficult to find good lionheads (to my liking biggrin.gif)... either their back is too straight or they are kinked in a way... hmm.gif
stan
so i think ranchu amd lionhead basically are the same fish,

just that they look different,

some with more curve backs, egg shaped, less head growth,
we call them ranchu.

those with curve backs and egg shaped but with more head growth
we call them Lionhead ranchu or lionchu.

Those with straighter backs or less curve backs and more head growth
We call then lion heads.

these fishes may come from different breeders that come through selective breeding to make them look the way they want to.

Some lionheads may look more like ranchu and vice versa.
Curve back ranchus may be more difficult or less quantity in a brood and hence the higher price.

This is my analogy, don't know if it is correct.?
void
tell u the truth, me also blur blur... some people some it's a ranchu... some people say it's a lionhead... hmm.gif

dun care if it's a lionhead or a ranchu... can attract my heart, is always a good fish.. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif good_very.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(stan @ Fri 12 Mar 2004 10:15 AM)
so i think ranchu amd lionhead basically are ....

Your analogy is quite right for now.

Do you frequent QianHu? Even if you have not seen their goldfish on sale, I'm sure you have come across posting by many bros here and elsewhere about their new RANCHU bought at QianHu. Now if you pay attention to the labeling in mandarin on the tubs, you will seldom see they label the fishes as "Lan Chou" but "Shou Xing" instead. Argh!!! Pple bought lionhead (shou xing) but wrote and posted pics of their "ranchu".

Have I confused you?

Don't worry about the above. I'm only trying to tell you your analogy is right, for now. Eventually as you spend more time looking at Ranchus and Lionhead, you will be able to spot the differences easily. By then you'll know your analogy is indeed quite right but... there're more involved.

wink.gif

IPB Image

Sweeeeeee.
stan
Hi HappyBuddha,

Glad that some one tell me these 2 fish are basically the same,
They look different like us humans,

Plus marketing hype,
some will sell more x than others. to market and get more profits.

Good lionheads can be ranchu. depending on how handsome they are...

Think at QH, the people just label the tubs, shouxing, ranchu or lion heads.
they don't really bother.
BlueBubble
Lionhead is the same as ranchu??? ohmy.gif

No lah... no wonder more and more people got confused. It is quite acceptable that LFS are ignorant about this but to claim this in a respectable goldfish forum is really unacceptable hmm.gif

Ranchus are developed from Lionhead, but they are definitely not Lionhead. They have different sets of criteria

Good lionheads are GOOD LIONHEADS. They'll never change into ranchus just because they are handsome. They are handsome simply bec they are good lionheads.

Grab it when you see a GOOD LIONHEAD, bec it is difficult to come by.....
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(BlueBubble @ Fri 12 Mar 2004 04:45 PM)
Lionhead is the same as ranchu???  ohmy.gif

No lah... no wonder more and more people got confused. It is quite acceptable that LFS are ignorant about this but to claim this in a respectable goldfish forum is really unacceptable  hmm.gif

Ranchus are developed from Lionhead, but they are definitely not Lionhead. They have different sets of criteria

Good lionheads are GOOD LIONHEADS. They'll never change into ranchus just because they are handsome. They are handsome simply bec they are good lionheads.

Grab it when you see a GOOD LIONHEAD, bec it is difficult to come by.....

Hi BB

What's happening here is here a simple explanation to newbies who have trouble differentiating a lionhead from a ranchu.

The analogy given by Stan is simple enough and correct enough to help newbies a little. Hopefully they can understand the basic differences first before they probe deeper.

It's obvious you understand the difference between lionhead and ranchu. You have to put yourself in their shoes to understand why your explanation will be very difficult and continues to draw a blank for them.

wink.gif

Don't worry about it being misleading... it not that far off and those who already understand won't be be bothered to read this thread to begin with. smile.gif
stan
Hi, bluebubble.

Ranchu is develop from Lionheads..... does it mean selective breeding?
Ranchu are later versions of Lionhead. Bred to have different attributes...
good side view, good top view, egg shape curved back.. etc etc

I remember
Many many years back,
LFS sell as "shou xing gong" which i believe to be from China,(only think not sure)
There wasn't any Ranchu, Lionheads.
The world means "longetivity" in Chinese.... think something to do with a bald god...
maybe the fish look like the bald god because got no dorsal fin.

Later on Ranchu start to appear in the market.... i believe its from Japan... The word ranchu itself seems be Japanese i think.
The japanese seems to bred them for top view like the koi.

This is again my analogy.
I can roughly tell ranchu from lion heads based on the physical difference we define.
But i think they are the same fish who look different from the many generations of selective breeding...
jhansolo
I was at superstar a few days back and I noticed they kept ranchu and lionhead together in the same tank. Is that a marketing ploy?
jhansolo
Check this out

http://www.showranchu.com/eng/knowledge/

Cheers
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(jhansolo @ Fri 12 Mar 2004 06:54 PM)
I was at superstar a few days back and I noticed they kept ranchu and lionhead together in the same tank.  Is that a marketing ploy?

Sorry may I know where is super star? unsure.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(jhansolo @ Fri 12 Mar 2004 07:00 PM)

Yo solo

The article you pointed out is, I believe, originally written by a belgium ranchu breeder Geert Coppens.

You can find the article here titled "Ranchu standaard english". There's also a dutch language version, hence I believe Mr. Coppens wrote it although the thai web site claims they have the copyright. sad.gif

It's a Apple computer's compressed file which I believe you can use Winzip to expand (or use Stuffit Expander for PC)

I should point out this article refers to Japanese Ranchu (which is different from the topic we're discussing here.) wink.gif
jhansolo
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Fri 12 Mar 2004 07:58 PM)
Sorry may I know where is super star?  unsure.gif

superstar is in downtown East Pasir Ris NTUC resort.

Some stuff are okay in price, because it is near to my office and at times we go there to get a bite.
BlueBubble
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Fri 12 Mar 2004 06:01 PM)
Hi BB

What's happening here is here a simple explanation to newbies who have trouble differentiating a lionhead from a ranchu. 

The analogy given by Stan is simple enough and correct enough to help newbies a little.  Hopefully they can understand the basic differences first before they probe deeper.

It's obvious you understand the difference between lionhead and ranchu.  You have to put yourself in their shoes to understand why your explanation will be very difficult and continues to draw a blank for them.

wink.gif

Don't worry about it being misleading... it not that far off and those who already understand won't be be bothered to read this thread to begin with.  smile.gif

peace.gif ok, got what you mean.

Agree with you, it is like have to baby talk with baby, right?
BlueBubble
QUOTE(stan @ Fri 12 Mar 2004 06:54 PM)
Hi, bluebubble.

Ranchu is develop from Lionheads..... does it mean selective breeding?
Ranchu are later versions of Lionhead. Bred to have different attributes...
good side view, good top view, egg shape curved back.. etc etc

I remember
Many many years back,
LFS sell as "shou xing gong" which i believe to be from China,(only think not sure)
There wasn't any Ranchu, Lionheads.
The world means "longetivity" in Chinese.... think something to do with a bald god...
maybe the fish look like the bald god because got no dorsal fin.

Later on Ranchu start to appear in the market.... i believe its from Japan... The word ranchu itself seems be Japanese i think.
The japanese seems to bred them for top view like the koi.

This is again my analogy.
I can roughly tell ranchu from lion heads  based on the physical difference we define.
But i think they are the same fish who look different from the many generations of selective breeding...

Well, all fancy goldfishes came from selective breeding, so in a way, you can say that ranchu and lionhead are the same fish, just like oranda and lionhead are the same fish. After all, the difference between oranda and lionhead is only the dorsal fin, or the lack of it.

But i agree with what HB had said, so do not worry, you are in good hands peace.gif
CP
Terminologies,terminologies.....terminologies.

Frankly,even after reading this thread

http://www.RafflesGold.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5

I still dont really know whats the difference between lionhead, Lion Head, Shou Xing, ranchu,lionchu,tigerchu,goosechu,buffalohead,cowhead or whatever head or whatever chu. biggrin.gif

There is only one specie of goldfish caurassius auratus.The only distinction to separate a ranchu or lionchu (this topic) or whatever from the orandas or moors
is the absence of the dorsal fin.Period.

All other names given whether lionhead or buffalohead are not of importance to me,perhaps marketing and branding is the main agenda amongst the breeders?

At last year's QH Goldfish competition,under the ranchu category,you will not be disqualified if you send in a lionhead or Shou Xing or lionchu,right?
The Matrix
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Thu, 06 Jan 2005 10:48 am)
There is only one specie of goldfish caurassius auratus.The only distinction to separate a ranchu or lionchu (this topic) or whatever from the orandas or moors
is the absence of the dorsal fin.Period.


WRONG !

QUOTE
At last year's QH Goldfish competition,under the ranchu category,you will not be disqualified if you send in a lionhead or Shou Xing or lionchu,right?
*



Shou xing or lionhead definitely cannot be classified in the Ranchu category. Totally different structure and shape.
CP
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Thu, 06 Jan 2005 11:20 am)
Shou xing or lionhead definitely cannot be classified in the Ranchu category. Totally different structure and shape.
*


Good afternoon Matrix,

http://www.RafflesGold.com/forums/index.ph...topic=390&st=30

These are entered as ranchus in the competition I had mentioned earlier,to me they look like lionheads (the black and the 1st prize Aquarama winner).So are these ranchus or the organisers do not disqualify lionheads,or are these neither ranchus nor lionheads?
desireless
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Thu, 06 Jan 2005 10:48 am)

Frankly,even after reading this thread

http://www.RafflesGold.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5

I still dont really know whats the difference between lionhead, Lion Head, Shou Xing, ranchu,lionchu,tigerchu,goosechu,buffalohead,cowhead or whatever head or whatever chu. biggrin.gif
*


The peduncle would give you much hint for the difference between lionhead and ranchu. Even that is not enough, the body shape and tail would be quite different.
desireless
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Thu, 06 Jan 2005 1:31 pm)
Good afternoon Matrix,

http://www.RafflesGold.com/forums/index.ph...topic=390&st=30

These are entered as ranchus in the competition I had mentioned earlier,to me they look like lionheads (the black and the 1st prize Aquarama winner).So are these ranchus or the organisers do not disqualify lionheads,or are these neither ranchus nor lionheads?
*


You're right. The QH competition indeed have some entries which are lionhead. But I am not sure whether they are categorized seperately or in the same cat as ranchus. Or perhaps lionhead is included as part of other fancy goldfishes.
The Matrix
看得出嗎?該是一目了然。

一品級皇族獅頭
IPB Image

一流的蘭疇
IPB Image
infocus
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Fri, 07 Jan 2005 5:27 pm)
看得出嗎?該是一目了然。

一品級皇族獅頭
Click to view attachment

一流的蘭疇
Click to view attachment
*



After seeing your pic, think my baby look more like ranchu. Kekeke..... biggrin.gif
desireless
A lionchu IS a Ranchu.

What Matrix is trying to highlight here, is the difference between a LIONHEAD and a RANCHU.

You've got to pump the head of your baby further to see if the head develope to the type of head of a lionchu or a true-blue ranchu. After reading that other thread, I am not so sure if it is a lionchu already biggrin.gif
infocus
QUOTE(desireless @ Sat, 08 Jan 2005 12:34 am)
A lionchu IS a Ranchu.

What Matrix is trying to highlight here, is the difference between a LIONHEAD and a RANCHU.

You've got to pump the head of your baby further to see if the head develope to the type of head of a lionchu or a true-blue ranchu. After reading that other thread, I am not so sure if it is a lionchu already biggrin.gif
*



Anyone got better ways to pump up the head? unsure.gif
Goldenpearl
i seen fi;ms of quarama whit lionchus named and judgde as lionchu.
In my preception a lionchu looks more like a Ranchu, but whit les curf in the back, en more headgrowht.
Stil the have mpre curf and bigger tail whit tuk tham Lionhead, which is almost flat bag.

I think Lionchus are a cros breed between lionhead en Ranchu, or ranchu especialy selecded for big round Wens dont no for sure?
But i do see then as a different variation somthing bewteen Lionhead en Ranchu.

Some Thai Lionchu have great curf big muscular boddy and a ful rasbberry Wen.
I have one me own swimming here he is realy strong, ist not a hich class fish do, but i realy like him smile.gif
Pump up the head? you meam more Wen growht, wel just keep chanching water freqentley en feed Hikari lionhead, and 4 times a week blood worms / brine shrimp, the rest is genetics.Some fish wil never develop a good Wen beacuase the mis the Gene which make the head grow so big.Also feed spirulina Tabs now and then for collor and mild lactive working.
izumonankin
Quote from wiki :

Lionchu

Origins and evolution

Although at first, the lionchus were considered merely as mongrels,[2] being hybrids of the lionheads and ranchus, the lionhead actually have an ancestor from Japan in the 1800s; it is then known as the shishigashira ranchu or lion-headed ranchu. The shishigashira ranchu is a ranchu-like goldfish with small amounts of headgrowth and some having small knobs and bumps on the back (a suggestion that the absence of the dorsal fin had not yet been stabilized at the time).[4] But the modern-day lionchu is considered to have originated from Thailand,[2] and was popularized by a group of goldfish hobbyists in Singapore through RafflesGold.com, an internet-based goldfish forum site. The lionchu was officially recognized as a unique class of fancy goldfish during the "My Fancy Goldfish Competition 2006", which was held in Singapore from May 26-28, 2006.

biggrin.gif
Capt. Dave
Very interesting thread 
Apeppe
Iím not an expert when it comes to this. Didnít even know this was possible. Useful read, appreciate your posting this.I couldnt have said it any better to be honest! keep up the awesome work. You are very talented & I only wish I could write as good as you do smile.gif Ö happydance1.gif


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