Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Brew Green Water In A 2ft Tank
RafflesGold Forums > Discussion Area > Green Water, Filtration and Tank Setup
Pages: 1, 2
sheringam
Propose brew green water in 2ft tank project

1. 23.5" x 11.5" x 13" fiveplan brand tank
2. 51.81 litres of water (13.71 gallons of water), around 12.5" depth of water
3. 2ft DIY PL lights with 2 36W OSRAM tubes and e-ballast
4. Simple sponge filter to collect goldfish poos
5. Wooden air block for aeration
6. 2 4.5" to 6" ranchus

Is it possible to brew green water in 2ft tank rather than tub? I've all the equipment with me except the PL lights which I've yet to collect from a bro who help DIY PL lights. Will switch on the PL lights non-stop for 3-4 days or until the green water turn dark green?
HappyBuddha
Your setup is a very typical beginner's tank... so... better tell you what I know in case too many people follow it.

The main problem is the depth of the tank. PL lamp cannot penetrate that deep. With 2x36, at most you can have 6 inches of water. By the fifth day, the lamp already cannot penetrate beyond 1-2 inches!

Next, why is the a need for a sponge filter? Let the green water takes care of the poos. You risk cultivating BB if you don't wash the sponge with tap water to kill the bb on a weekly basis.

biggrin.gif Does those wooden air-stone work in fresh water? I heard they don't. They're meant for marine tanks. A normal coarse stone works perfectly. Too fine a stone and erm... may be tricky to clear the clogged pores.

With only 6 inches of water (due to PL's limited penetration strength) .... you can at most keep one 2-3 inches baby goldfish. biggrin.gif At 6 inches only... you're better getting one of those toyogo tub; easy to clean and cheap cheap too.
HappyBuddha
Just to give you an idea the penetration capability of PL lamp.

IPB Image

Above is a series of pics I took when I seeded just 3% of old green water to the newly cleaned tub filled with tap water. It's powered by one 55 watts R870 (about 7000 kelvin) PL lamp.

Normally I would seed about 5%. When you do so, skip day 1, and count day 2 and day 1... day 3 as day 2 and so on.

Look closely and you'll see that by day 6, the green water is just waiting to collapse! It's so intense, lights cannot penetrate at all to allow proper photosynthesis to take place.
CyberET
QUOTE(sheringam @ Thu 27 Nov 2003 21:59 PM)
Propose brew green water in 2ft tank project

1. 23.5" x 11.5" x 13" fiveplan brand tank
2. 51.81 litres of water (13.71 gallons of water), around 12.5" depth of water
3. 2ft DIY PL lights with 2 36W OSRAM tubes and e-ballast
4. Simple sponge filter to collect goldfish poos
5. Wooden air block for aeration
6. 2 4.5" to 6" ranchus

Is it possible to brew green water in 2ft tank rather than tub? I've all the equipment with me except the PL lights which I've yet to collect from a bro who help DIY PL lights. Will switch on the PL lights non-stop for 3-4 days or until the green water turn dark green?

water volume is not sufficient for 2 ranchus of that size imho.. for 1 yes.. for 2, risky & not recommended..

not sure about PL lights, no experience with them, but based on what i observe from handsome's experiment, should be can?

no forms of filter at all, somemore BB can colonize a sponge filter very fast

no need wooden air block.. standard airstone is fine

don't switch on 24hrs, fish also need some rest.. 12hrs a day is fine, just follow normal sunlight hrs.. 6am-6pm

even if the water is dark green.. still maintain lighting intensity to continue removing ammonia.. its light with algae that removes ammonia, not just ammonia and algae.. although green is more intense, but don't forget, green more intense, light penetration is also lesser..

too much is no good.. better change your water every week without fail.. 90%

i'm may not be 100% right.. hehe.. bros shoot away.. beg1.gif
The Matrix
Let see your questions ...

QUOTE
Is it possible to brew green water in 2ft tank rather than tub?

YES.

QUOTE
Will switch on the PL lights non-stop for 3-4 days or until the green water turn dark green?

Possible.

BUT ..... I shoot liao hor.

50L for 2 fish of that size ? U gotta be kidding. 1 3" fish at most. At least 50L min per fish and that's still a miserable little room to make some mistakes. Okay, it's up to you to try out. Anyway, I also using 2ft tank, but larger width, at 70L for 2 demekins. Close monitoring needed to prevent any problem faced as the water darkening.

Green water itself is already a natural filter, why add something to compete. No filter needed. Collect poo for wat ?

Wood type air block is for marine setup. Use normal ceramic or plastics type for freshwater lah.
sheringam
Have been switching on the PL lights for 3 days. But no sign of green water yet. See particles getting more in the water. How to startup for green water? Is there enough ammonia in the tank if add just one fish only?
CyberET
3 days non-stop?
i normally see hint of green on 3rd day, light green by 4th
erm.. how much and how often do u feed?
i actually feed alot when trying to start virgin green

erm, 1fish in 2ft should be enough wor.. i even managed to get the water to turn green on the 5th day using 2 2inch fish in 160litres biggrin.gif
sheringam
QUOTE(CyberET @ Sun 07 Dec 2003 11:49 PM)
3 days non-stop?
i normally see hint of green on 3rd day, light green by 4th
erm.. how much and how often do u feed?
i actually feed alot when trying to start virgin green

erm, 1fish in 2ft should be enough wor.. i even managed to get the water to turn green on the 5th day using 2 2inch fish in 160litres biggrin.gif

i switch on the PL lights for 10-12hrs everyday. i feed the goldfish only once per day. i didn't feed a lot but see a lot of particles in the water when the PL lights are switched on. the water smell a bit smelly already. i think ammonia level has increased. should i start to feed the goldfish heavily?

how should i prepare for the green water?
CyberET
i dunno am i doing it right, but i feed 3 times a day between morning and afternoon
the water should stink badly, its ammonia, then the green will kick in after that
sheringam
QUOTE(CyberET @ Mon 08 Dec 2003 12:29 AM)
i dunno am i doing it right, but i feed 3 times a day between morning and afternoon
the water should stink badly, its ammonia, then the green will kick in after that

yes the water stinks very badly with lots of particles and goldfish have difficulties breathing, i took it back to the main tank and let the PL lights on. going to switch it on continously for more than 24hrs. 4th day still no sign of green water. once there's sign of green water, will put the goldfish back into the tank.
CyberET
QUOTE(sheringam @ Mon 08 Dec 2003 08:53 PM)
yes the water stinks very badly with lots of particles and goldfish have difficulties breathing, i took it back to the main tank and let the PL lights on. going to switch it on continously for more than 24hrs. 4th day still no sign of green water. once there's sign of green water, will put the goldfish back into the tank.

i'm not sure removing the goldfish will slow down the kicking in of green water or not, but when u say your goldfish have difficultly in breathing, how did u come to that conclusion? got blood streaks yet?
sheringam
QUOTE(CyberET @ Mon 08 Dec 2003 09:34 PM)
i'm not sure removing the goldfish will slow down the kicking in of green water or not, but when u say your goldfish have difficultly in breathing, how did u come to that conclusion? got blood streaks yet?

no blood streaks but it seems that the ammonia level in the water is so high that it's grasping for air. see whether tommorow the water turns slightly green as it's becoming cloudy. i see the goldfish back to normal when i put it back into the main tank.
CyberET
gasping for air? at the surface u mean?
hmm...
kingyoo
Gasping at the surface is usually lack of oxygen or PH crash.

Given your description of the set up and you do have a airstone, I don't think it is lack of oxygen.

What is your PH and KH? If you have a low KH then having green water may cause a pH crash which will kill your fish.

Boost your KH (alkalinity) by adding baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) slowly to your tank so as not to stress the fish or the water cycle. Add half a teaspoon (sorry I am US so I use US measurment ) per 10 gallon ( 37 liters ) until the KH measures at least 100 ppm.
CyberET
QUOTE(kingyoo @ Tue 09 Dec 2003 08:37 AM)
If you have a low KH then having green water may cause a pH crash which will kill your fish.

why a low KH may cause a pH crash when having green water?
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(CyberET @ Tue 09 Dec 2003 08:49 AM)
why a low KH may cause a pH crash when having green water?

Without sufficient KH, the green water is not bufferred against the natural swing of pH during the course of a day.
kingyoo
In basic terms.....

Green water = suspended algae= plant

Plants exchange Oxygen (O2) to Carbon Dioxide (CO2) at night.

CO2 drags the PH down.


A higher KH will grab the PH and hold it steady.

There are other factors that come into play such as the nitrogen cycle. During that process free hydrogen molecules are released. All these free hydrogen molecules causes the water to become acidic, which will test PH very low.

Carbonante activity (sodium bicarbonate) will harness some of the hydrogen molecules and store them to keep the PH stable.


I am not a chemist. These are things that I have learned with keeping goldfish healthy.
CyberET
hmm... but the water issn't green yet right? he mentioned cloudy only..
and there issn't a filter yet, i know BB will be present to utilize the buffering capacity, but not much right?
kingyoo
Ah, no green water yet. Then maybe because no bio filter to set up the BB (bio bugs?) there could be a problem with the cycle being unstable and causing PH flux. The best thing to do is take readings for PH and see if there is flux. If so then do test for KH.

Otherwise, could it be that there is green water, but not dark enough to tell. Cloudy water is also a sign of too much dissolved organic particles (docs) which will rob the water of oxygen. But with airstone, that shouldn't be a problem.

Maybe toxic water. Too much pollution with no cycle started.
CyberET
i don't think hes using filter?
but if the green issn't dark enough to tell.. would it be sufficient to be of any effect?
hmm.. or could it be too high ammonia which is the cause y the green cannot start?

sheringam >> what light temperature r u using?
The Matrix
i sense another one making the same mistakes once again.

Sheringham, dun torture your fish leh.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(demekin @ Tue 09 Dec 2003 10:07 AM)
i sense another one making the same mistakes once again.

Sheringham, dun torture your fish leh.

Unless he hasn't been reading the advise given here, especially the one on lowering his water's depth, the water should turn green pretty soon.

The same words - be patient when cultivating virgin green water.
sheringam
QUOTE(CyberET @ Tue 09 Dec 2003 10:00 AM)
i don't think hes using filter?
but if the green issn't dark enough to tell.. would it be sufficient to be of any effect?
hmm.. or could it be too high ammonia which is the cause y the green cannot start?

sheringam >> what light temperature r u using?

i'm not using any filter, only an air stone with 2 x 36W 6000K OSRAM PL lights.

PL lights are more than 10cm away from surface of water. Now reduce to 2~3 cm.

Added 2 spoons of salt in the previous setup. Is that another mistake?

Had drained all the water from the tank and added fresh water without the salt. Not to forget Genesis anti-chlorine which removes chlorine and chloramine as well.

Yes there's too much dissolved organic particles in the water and particles at the bottom of the tank. have might be feeding too much green peas to goldfish.

Added half spoon of sodium carbonate to buffer the KH of the fresh water.

no choice have to use a 2ft tank instead of a tub cos of space constraint.

still learning how to brew green water in a 2ft tank.
CyberET
sounds ok.. but whats your stocking level?
The Matrix
QUOTE(sheringam @ Tue 09 Dec 2003 01:16 PM)
i'm not using any filter, only an air stone with 2 x 36W 6000K OSRAM PL lights.

PL lights are more than 10cm away from surface of water. Now reduce to 2~3 cm.

Added 2 spoons of salt in the previous setup. Is that another mistake?

Had drained all the water from the tank and added fresh water without the salt. Not to forget Genesis anti-chlorine which removes chlorine and chloramine as well.

Yes there's too much dissolved organic particles in the water and particles at the bottom of the tank. have might be feeding too much green peas to goldfish.

Added half spoon of sodium carbonate to buffer the KH of the fresh water.

no choice have to use a 2ft tank instead of a tub cos of space constraint.

still learning how to brew green water in a 2ft tank.

so far so good. few more things

1. fish size (body length, and type)
2. fish load (number of fish)
3. food (how frequent, what type)
4. photo period (how long)

what else u add that you did not mention ?
sheringam
QUOTE(demekin @ Tue 09 Dec 2003 02:49 PM)
so far so good. few more things

1. fish size (body length, and type)
2. fish load (number of fish)
3. food (how frequent, what type)
4. photo period (how long)

what else u add that you did not mention ?

Just started everything this morning and hope to see results sad.gif

1. 4.5" ranchu
2. 1 fish cos tank only around 13 gal
3. feed with hikari lionhead pellets twice per day (morning and day)
4. 12 hours per day with 2 x 36W OSRAM 6000K PL lights
The Matrix
it's a big fish for a small tank. the rest looks okay. just keep on trying.
CyberET
QUOTE(sheringam @ Tue 09 Dec 2003 03:35 PM)
Just started everything this morning and hope to see results  sad.gif

1. 4.5" ranchu
2. 1 fish cos tank only around 13 gal
3. feed with hikari lionhead pellets twice per day (morning and day)
4. 12 hours per day with 2 x 36W OSRAM 6000K PL lights

har? i thought u say 2ft? 2ft tank around 59Litres le..
12 litres is only a 1ft tank
i rather u do daily water change than try green water...
and its 4.5" not 2"
sheringam
QUOTE(CyberET @ Tue 09 Dec 2003 04:41 PM)
har? i thought u say 2ft? 2ft tank around 59Litres le..
12 litres is only a 1ft tank
i rather u do daily water change than try green water...
and its 4.5" not 2"

yes it's 2ft tank around 13 gal filled with water and not 1ft. 1ft would be too small already.
CyberET
oh, hehe.. pai sei, my mistake, i mistook gallon as litres tongue.gif

so u've restarted again today?
sheringam
QUOTE(CyberET @ Tue 09 Dec 2003 05:24 PM)
oh, hehe.. pai sei, my mistake, i mistook gallon as litres tongue.gif

so u've restarted again today?

yes restarted it this morning. PL lights have been on for around 10 hrs. water started to have lot of particles flowing around and becoming cloudy. going to on the PL lights until tommorow morning and see how.
The Matrix
QUOTE(sheringam @ Tue 09 Dec 2003 09:07 PM)
yes restarted it this morning. PL lights have been on for around 10 hrs. water started to have lot of particles flowing around and becoming cloudy. going to on the PL lights until tommorow morning and see how.

all matters need rest and that's where the growing/multiplying period. Give those poor organisms a chance to 'digest' their food.
CyberET
12hrs should be enough liaoz..
7am - 7pm wink.gif
kingyoo
Just wondering....

Wouldn't it be better for the fish to cultivate green water in a seperate container. Keep your fish healthy in a another cycled container. Then when the green water is ready add to the fish. This way the fish do not get tortured with ammonia and nitrite poisoning.

I don't have as much experience with green water as all of you, so I am just asking for theory.

My green water grows so quickly here in the summer, I do not have a problem cultivating in seperate tub.


Any comments?
CyberET
because your green is achieved via natural sunlight smile.gif
the problem now is the PL
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(kingyoo @ Tue 09 Dec 2003 11:45 PM)
Wouldn't it be better for the fish to cultivate green water in a seperate container.  Keep your fish healthy in a another cycled container.  Then when the green water is ready add to the fish.  This way the fish do not get tortured with ammonia and nitrite poisoning.

Oh yes, it's definitely better to cultivate virgin green water using cheap, but healthy, fish. There was a bro who missed my point on the healthy part but put in cheap feeder fishes instead. He wrote and asked me why the green water looks brown. I explained and told him to throw away that tub and start again.
kingyoo
What is PL? blush.gif

Also, not to start an argument, but why do you need fish to start green water? I don't use fish to start green water. I just use water, light, and some fish food for fertilizer. Voila! Green water. Of course as stated earlier I only grow green water in summer with sun.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(kingyoo @ Wed 10 Dec 2003 11:53 AM)
What is PL? blush.gif

Also, not to start an argument, but why do you need fish to start green water?  I don't use fish to start green water.  I just use water, light, and some fish food for fertilizer.  Voila!  Green water.  Of course as stated earlier I only grow green water in summer with sun.

PL is Compact Fluorescent Lamps. It comes in many different shape and sizes. Some even have the electronic ballast build-in. Here's a Link to Osram's product page to give you a better idea. I sometimes wonder why the short-hand isn't CFL which makes more sense that "PL".

I've not tried brewing green water using fish food before. How many days does it take to spot the first hint of green using this method?
The Matrix
QUOTE(kingyoo @ Wed 10 Dec 2003 11:53 AM)
What is PL? blush.gif

Also, not to start an argument, but why do you need fish to start green water?  I don't use fish to start green water.  I just use water, light, and some fish food for fertilizer.  Voila!  Green water.  Of course as stated earlier I only grow green water in summer with sun.

kingyo, your method is not wrong either. In some part of this goldfish world, there is such a method of using food as the initiator of green water for some special purposes.
kingyoo
QUOTE
I've not tried brewing green water using fish food before. How many days does it take to spot the first hint of green using this method?


Well, since I live in Seattle, where the sun comes out only once in a while. It could take up to a week. But this past summer we didn't have much rain, so lot's of sunshine made my tubs to start turning green in about 3 days. In the summer, the sun comes up at about 6:00 am and goes down at about 9:00 pm. I put my tubs in direct sunlight as much as possible.

I can even grow the green water indoors in the summer in my fish room with addition of some flourescent lights to help.

If you have lot's of phosphates in the water it will hep to grow the suspended algae very quickly.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(kingyoo @ Wed 10 Dec 2003 12:53 PM)
I can even grow the green water indoors in the summer in my fish room with addition of some flourescent lights to help.

If you have lot's of phosphates in the water it will hep to grow the suspended algae very quickly.

May I know what kind of fish food you use to fertilize the tub to cultivate green water? Live/frozen bloodworms or dry pellets? I know there are some bros who use defrosted shrimps to kick start the ammonia level but I would be more comfortable using bloodworms.

How long does the green water maintain its intensity under an indoor florescence lamp?
kingyoo
I use crushed seafood flakes. I like it because it "melts" in the water. I don't want to waste good frozen food.


The green water gets really thick for me with floresent lights, but it is helped by sunlight because I have windows in my ceiling in my fish room. I could not see my fish unless they swam up close to the glass. I cannot be certain if the lights alone would grow adequate green water indoors. Plus, I had to remove the green water because it started to smell too. I don't like the smell for indoors.

Sorry, it was my first indoor green water experience and I didn't document what I did step by step for this tank.

As you recall, I had a death of one of my ranchu in the green water. So I stopped doing that indoors. I will keep my green water for summer "spa" only outdoors where there is more space for the fish.


I still however, grow green algae on the glass of my tanks, except the front glass. I believe this is also better for the fish. It really helps maintain their health and keep the trates low.
smgutie
I was wondering this same thing. Would only amonia work to cultivate green water or does the food work better? Great, this makes me want to get a giant tub for green water! Kingyoo what king of light source did you use besides sunlight?
mountain
actually, the problem most of us singaporean faced is .. we do not have access to Direct sunlight .. its free-of-charge, but we do not have direct access.. hehe.. tats why bros like HB come out with ways and means to generate matured green water. the procedures they come out with as benefited us.. like me .. now i am trying out..
i think its more of a light problem to a ammonia problem shiok.gif

Day 0

user posted image

Day 1

user posted image
kingyoo
QUOTE
Kingyoo what king of light source did you use besides sunlight?


I use a full specrum flor. light in the hood of the tank cover. A single tube.

Now because of the winter cloud cover, it is not bright enough for green water.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(kingyoo @ Wed 10 Dec 2003 03:38 PM)
Plus, I had to remove the green water because it started to smell too.  I don't like the smell for indoors.

I have a green water tub in my airconditioned room and there's no smell, or very little of it. In fact, the clear water tank in another room is actually more smelly (in the usual aquarium tank kind of odour.) If you think about, it shouldn't smell at all if the green water is in good condition.

How often do you change the green water? I change mine once a week without fail. The longest I could stretch was 10 days. It was way too intense and starting to smell like a clear water aquarium. I have to change it and not push my luck any further.
square_guy
yes, i think we can safely say that once the green water starts to turn brown/smell bad, the fish is either sick or the algae are dying/decomposing
kingyoo
None of my tanks have any smell at all. They are perfectly cycled. The only time they smell is when I do water changes. Then the algae in the glass is exposed to air... algae smell.

The green water indoors starts to smell like algae invasion. I don't like it. Maybe it was too green. I always do at least a 40% water change every week for all my tanks and ponds.
sheringam
after 3 attempts, finally succeed in brewing green water. i know algae boom after seeing algae spots on sides and bottom of the tank.

water stinks cos of high ammonia level and decomposed particles. ranchu breathing heavily near the surface of water and seems to be trying to jump out of the water. so i transfer it back into the big tank and switch on PL lights for 12hrs. next morning water turn green.

After work on the same day, i cleaned up the algae spots and change 65-70% of water. again i switch on the PL lights for 24hrs this time, water turn virgin green and does not stinks.

Tested PH level around 8.0, almost the same as the big tank and transfer the 4" ranchu into green water tank. Did the same, switch on PL lights for 12hrs.

Second and third day after transfer the ranchu, green water turned darker green each day. Four day it's so dark that i can't even see it unless it's swimming towards the sides of the tank.

Feed it with lots of pellets and switch on PL lights for 12hrs after that. This is the seventh day, green water doesn't stinks although it's very dark green in colour. Ranchu not breathing heavily anymore. Going to change 90% of water next time.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(sheringam @ Thu 01 Jan 2004 12:18 AM)
after 3 attempts, finally succeed in brewing green water. i know algae boom after seeing algae spots on sides and bottom of ...

Woo hoo! happydance.gif

Congrats man.

So why do you think you finally succeeded in your forth attempts? You seem to imply it's the long hours of lighting? On the other hand, you also seem to imply you actually kept the high ammonia level in check by removing your ranchus?

BTW, why is the pH of your main tank, presumbly a clear water tank, so high at 8.0? unsure.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2017 Invision Power Services, Inc.