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Kinder
I started this topic after reading Docs, Pump and Dump thread.

I agree with what doc has said, feed too much and you are sure to loose your fish - no matter if your a newbie or a pro.

And as to what bekko mentioned, observe your fish...it is the key to understanding the health of your fish. I cant observe my fish everyday, they live in greenwater (but i try to), and i have trust in my greenwater setup to take care of my fish. I have seen my fish do much better in an outdoor setup (mostly i have used greenwater) then indoors. Since keeping my fish outdoors (in green water setup) i have started to realise how much less im feeding my fish and still seeing improvements (growth & colouration).

Im starting to question, if feeding branded (processed) pellet food is any good in the long run? are well all going down the track of "intensive" poultry or cattle farming practices, where they are beefed up in a short period of time on grains etc (to say the least which is a completely unnatural diet for them). Or should we go down the track to emulate what a goldfish or its ancestors might eat in their natural habitat? things like worms, insects, algae etc

I know creating a perfect natural environment is not possible, but doesn't mean we can ignore it and buy processed food. This also applies to us humans, where are diet is rich in processed food (at least in the west), or in the case of meat, where animals are fattened on grains and cereals, completely inappropriate as natural diet for them. Economic wise this method (diet) increases the number of animals harvested but shows poor results in terms of animal health and nutritional value of the meat which we eventually consume.

This is the same for pet foods for dogs and cats, specifically the dry food. Dogs and cats don't get to eat dry pellet food in the wild, yet we give them. And the ill effects are obvious if one owns a pet dog/cat. Poor dental health and digestive health...leading to other ill health.

I wanted to hear from members of this site what they think about feeding your goldfish something that is unnatural (at least in form) e.g. Dry pellet food over a more appropriate and natural foods that are found in the wild and are in their natural state/form e.g. worms, algae, greens etc


In all honesty we all love are goldfishes, so it correct for one to completely depend on processed dry foods. We all know how often a goldfish dies from overfeeding of dry food, and perhaps is the leading cause of goldfish death among others like poor water parameters.

I would like members to enlighten us on what they think about what food is right, do experienced goldfish farmers from china/japan feed exclusively on dry food? was dry food used in ancient days? do goldfish experience the same illness today than what they did in the past? compared to their natural habitat we still keep goldfish in water, in ponds, use filtration/wc, but what about food has that changed? - for good or worse!

I would like to know the answers, so we all can better understand their health. And to make more informed decisions when it comes to caring for our much loved pets.


Kinder

churico4ever
As for me, I agree with doc's article about the home-made paste food... why? because its...

1.) Natural
2.)you will have your own choice of what you think to add in the dough for the better of your fish
3.)its better for the goldfish digestion because its fresh
4.)it doesn't ruin the water that much compared to others..
5.)its sinking type..which I like
6.)less expenses
7.)and you can learn something everytime you make a new dough...

This is the dough I just made today... which contains... green peas, honey, gerber babyfood ( Pumpkin based) milk,Grapefruit juice, asparagus..


Rico








My_Dough.jpg
goldrush
Hi Kinder

You may have a valid point in feeding more natural food that may actually ensure better uniform and proportionate growth,better overall health and longetivity.But again realistically few can achieve the perfect environment for your fish to thrive just strictly on natural sources.Perphaps you need to ponder the following :
Nautural food are hard to come by
Natural food are expensive to produce,reared or planted
Natural food need in abundance to achieve continue growth

Now we all know processed food is generally ill for health(human and fish inclusive)but processed food has a role to play in every food industry.

They are cheap to produced
They are readily available
They can be kept longer periods of time
They can be fed without much hassle
They can be condensed into a single phase for ease of distribution of various nutrients
They can be added,flavoured,colored to entice feeding

Now studies have shown growth yield strictly based on natural sources par below fish that are fed supplemented with processed feed.So the key is not just to rely on one source but feed has to be supplemented to ensure you get the best of both worlds.ie natural supplemented with processed or processed supplemented with natural wacko.gif



You can read more on fish nutrition with this online book

http://books.google.com.sg/books?hl=en&...B7XSmw#PPA27,M1


Try reading on fertilisation and supplemental feeding on page 27 onwards rusure.gif
goldrush
QUOTE(churico4ever @ Sat, 15 Nov 2008 3:48 pm) *

As for me, I agree with doc's article about the home-made paste food... why? because its...

1.) Natural
2.)you will have your own choice of what you think to add in the dough for the better of your fish
3.)its better for the goldfish digestion because its fresh
4.)it doesn't ruin the water that much compared to others..
5.)its sinking type..which I like
6.)less expenses
7.)and you can learn something everytime you make a new dough...

This is the dough I just made today... which contains... green peas, honey, gerber babyfood ( Pumpkin based) milk,Grapefruit juice, asparagus..
Rico




Wow you serve your goldfish in such formal attire hysterical.gif
churico4ever
hehehe yes doc wink.gif , because when I took that picture.. I just got back from work.. its about 5:30 PM so.. I feed my fish.. even without changing my uniform first... thats how I care for my babies tongue.gif



next time I will show a video on making the dough...with Uniform hehehehehe
If I can.....


no promises...


Rico yes.gif
calicoly
QUOTE(churico4ever @ Mon, 17 Nov 2008 2:35 am) *

hehehe yes doc wink.gif , because when I took that picture.. I just got back from work.. its about 5:30 PM so.. I feed my fish.. even without changing my uniform first... thats how I care for my babies tongue.gif
next time I will show a video on making the dough...with Uniform hehehehehe
If I can.....
no promises...
Rico yes.gif


shiok.gif shiok.gif shiok.gif i'd love to see that!!! i've never made the paste food before, only gel based. but i wonder if the gel in it is actually good for the fish? blush.gif
churico4ever

Gel based? we need to wait for the Doc's Advised on this... before I made the paste.. I consult the doctor first to be sure hehehehe...

Doc Goldrush... Gel based is good? or no good?


Rico
goldrush
There are a few reasons why doc don't use gel as base to bind your various components.

First,I'm idle biggrin.gif Gel involves cooking and then cooling.For me it is time consuming and not readily executed.Gel feeding can be quite messy with uneaten remnants posing a threat to deterioration of water condition.Gel reminds me of agar on petri dish which we use for bacteria cultivation and sensitivity test..so I believe it is a good medium for bacterial growth and that means easier deterioration if not kept properly.Through heating of agar or gel we may inevitably destroy heat sensitive additives which we add to our food preparation thereby render them futile and inert .But these are my personal preference cos if you have confident and experience no ill effects on using gel as a binder all these years....good for you good_very.gif It only proves to me that I'm no good cooking up a meal for my fishes.. hysterical.gif
palito

Doc, Microwave will do.... biggrin.gif


I still prefer not using gel for some reasons...


Rico
goldrush
QUOTE(palito @ Mon, 17 Nov 2008 4:32 pm) *

Doc, Microwave will do.... biggrin.gif
I still prefer not using gel for some reasons...
Rico


Why you got 2 account mad.gif

one in China one in singapore ...... hmm.gif
churico4ever

Hi doc,

Palito is my work colleague and co-hobbyist here in Hefei China, he just came yesterday to register, and use my computer so I accidentally post in this subject which I thought it was my account hehehe.... and by the way he did not fully edited yet his profile.. as you can see there are no avatars yet...

I'll follow up him to properly edit his profile asap...



Rico
bekko
Kinder,

There is no doubt that green water and pellets is better than pellets alone and purchased natural food is better than pellets. But still, nothing beats natural forage grown in situ with a very low fish density (say, one fish in three square meters). It takes that much space to keep the fish from eating the natural forage faster than it can grow.

I don't really know why this is. Perhaps when the fish has the natural forage buffet they can pick and choose the food items they most need at that point in time. Perhaps it is not the food but the space that makes them so healthy.

-steve
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