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HappyBuddha
It's happening tomorrow (29/11) and Sunday.

Like... nobody is goin' hor?

How come har?
CyberET
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Fri 28 Nov 2003 09:42 AM)
It's happening tomorrow (29/11) and Sunday.

Like... nobody is goin' hor?

How come har?

hehe.. all shy to say? scared kena stalk tongue.gif
HappyBuddha
Oh, iz it? Kekeke.

I thot maybe it's becoz we have no idea what they will be talking about. I ain't goin if they just want to introduce different kinds of goldfish to me, for instance.

But if got free beer, I'm there! beer1.gif1
CyberET
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Fri 28 Nov 2003 09:57 AM)
Oh, iz it? Kekeke.

I thot maybe it's becoz we have no idea what they will be talking about.  I ain't goin if they just want to introduce different kinds of goldfish to me, for instance.

But if got free beer, I'm there! beer1.gif1

hehe, go la, then u bug ron for kashino babies next year shiok.gif
mountain
GnG give me 2 free tickets happydance.gif
CyberET
QUOTE(mountain @ Fri 28 Nov 2003 11:16 AM)
GnG give me 2 free tickets  happydance.gif

hehe, cool, how r your two fishy doing? smile.gif
square_guy
i going on sunday! who's going as well?
LASERGUY
Me also got two free tickets from GNG this evening when I collect my fishes. But, most likely cannot go leh, work commitment. cry.gif
HappyBuddha
I know for sure ET can't go... coz he's in KL. (I hope he can find his way to that Subang Aquarium for Tung Hou's fish.)

No free beer I no go.

Who taking picture har? biggrin.gif

Can post a written transcript or not? beg2.gif
square_guy
some misc info from sunday's talk

green water:

- protein is around 60%! the vermilion guy alex (the ngee ann poly student on the cna show) did the analysis. who needs chroma when we have free green water biggrin.gif

- regular change of green water is also to prevent kidney failure to to excessively high protein as it gets even greener. got this from another vermilion member.

- normal FL tubes can't reduce ammonia to zero. MH can.
square_guy
QUOTE(hun citizen @ Sun 30 Nov 2003 18:32 PM)
Point 2 something which I have never heard of..... That High protein food can caused kidney failure.  Now I start to ponder whether feeding too much Chroma is a bad thing or not.

it was something new to me as well, but it makes sense. too much protein will probably overload the kidney. They didn't say this during the talk, but I talk to one of them and he mentioned that the protein level could go up toe 70+% in the green water during intense green. He also mentioned that they have "apparently" suffered losses from this when I asked.

He did mentioned that the minimum once a week water change is quite safe.

Lastly, they termed the correct colour of green water as "jade green" (no more sugarcan green, pea soup green etc) . dun ask me how it looks like coz i am colour blind rolleyes.gif
The Matrix
too much algae is bad as it produce too much dissolved O2 which the fish blood system will be unable to discharge in time - causing O2 Burn. This is only the secondary effect.

other than that, excessive or intense green cause poor water to certain extend especially for home green water type which is likely to be smaller in vol compare to those china farm large ponds.

as for excessive protein, not every fish can take in so much protein. It will be up to individual hobbyists to find which is level of energy, growth is best for his own fish during the growth period, grooming period and sustaining period. Figure that out !

In fact, as protein break down, it cause ammonia surge when the fish excret waste product. Negative effects on excessive protein is not new to this biological advance world. It's a growth food if well selected and balanced. If used incorrectly, it's will become a negative growth factor that you will not be able to solve so easily.
CyberET
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Sat 29 Nov 2003 09:14 AM)
I know for sure ET can't go... coz he's in KL.  (I hope he can find his way to that Subang Aquarium for Tung Hou's fish.)

No free beer I no go.

Who taking picture har?  biggrin.gif

Can post a written transcript or not? beg2.gif

they don't bring in from Tung Hoi anymore sad.gif from Fu Zhou now instead
CyberET
QUOTE(demekin @ Mon 01 Dec 2003 00:07 AM)
too much algae is bad as it produce too much dissolved O2 which the fish blood system will be unable to discharge in time - causing O2 Burn. This is only the secondary effect.

other than that, excessive or intense green cause poor water to certain extend especially for home green water type which is likely to be smaller in vol compare to those china farm large ponds.

as for excessive protein, not every fish can take in so much protein. It will be up to individual hobbyists to find which is level of energy, growth is best for his own fish during the growth period, grooming period and sustaining period. Figure that out !

In fact, as protein break down, it cause ammonia surge when the fish excret waste product. Negative effects on excessive protein is not new to this biological advance world. It's a growth food if well selected and balanced. If used incorrectly, it's will become a negative growth factor that you will not be able to solve so easily.

now i'm worried over having too intense a green.. sad.gif

heh.. i stopped using chroma long ago.. my fishy don't like it anyway
The Matrix
QUOTE(CyberET @ Mon 01 Dec 2003 00:54 AM)
they don't bring in from Tung Hoi anymore sad.gif from Fu Zhou now instead

wah .... the fish now speak hokkien, ming-nan dialect instead of cantonese liao.

FuZhou fish har, Union farm lor. That's what u getting from QianHu also mah.
CyberET
QUOTE(demekin @ Mon 01 Dec 2003 01:40 AM)
wah .... the fish now speak hokkien, ming-nan dialect instead of cantonese liao.

FuZhou fish har, Union farm lor. That's what u getting from QianHu also mah.

the boss say Tung Hoi fishy too expensive..
anyway he claims he fly over to china to handpick once every few months
CyberET
QUOTE(square_guy @ Sun 30 Nov 2003 17:36 PM)
some misc info from sunday's talk

green water:

- protein is around 60%! the vermilion guy alex (the ngee ann poly student on the cna show) did the analysis. who needs chroma when we have free green water  biggrin.gif

- regular change of green water is also to prevent kidney failure to to excessively high protein as it gets even greener. got this from another vermilion member.

- normal FL tubes can't reduce ammonia to zero. MH can.

thanks for the updates! anyone went on sunday?

hmm.. did they mention anything about PL tubes?
square_guy
QUOTE(CyberET @ Mon 01 Dec 2003 02:56 AM)
thanks for the updates! anyone went on sunday?

hmm.. did they mention anything about PL tubes?

i went on sunday.

i did ask abt PL tubes, but they dun have experience with it. only FL vs MH
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(hun citizen @ Sun 30 Nov 2003 18:32 PM)
Thanks bro square_guy for taking the time to attend the seminar and brought back some insight, and info on goldfish rearing.

Point 2 something which I have never heard of..... That High protein food can caused kidney failure.  Now I start to ponder whether feeding too much Chroma is a bad thing or not.

I duno know how to put my take on this correctly... but I'll try.

Excessively high protein leads to kidney failture? This is probabably not a cause & effect thingy but an indirect result due to degradion of water quality?

Next, even though Chroma claims it has a min. 60% of proteins it can't be as digestive as free-floating unicellular algae.

Supplying excessive Chroma could result in poor water quality... but it can't be a direct cause for kidney failure...

Strange idea... hmm.gif
square_guy
hmm maybe they are not very sure themselve? it was not in the actual talk, but something which one of the members reveal during our conversation.

the poly guy did analyse the green water with (i presume) lab equipment and i'll have to take some of his findings at face value, until he publish.

for discussion sake, i know for sure a constant high protein diet would overload some organs, but am not sure whether it is the kidney. humans do suffer from this as well especially with all those high-protein-low-carbo diet and whatever.

i think once the food is in the stomach, the body will have to break it down no matter wat. even if the protein is not easily absorb, the organs will still try as hard as possible => overwork.

with no proper studies done, we can only rely on the experience of others tongue.gif
The Matrix
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Mon 01 Dec 2003 09:10 AM)
I duno know how to put my take on this correctly... but I'll try.

Excessively high protein leads to kidney failture?  This is probabably not a cause & effect thingy but an indirect result due to degradion of water quality?

Next, even though Chroma claims it has a min. 60% of proteins it can't be as digestive as free-floating unicellular algae.

Supplying excessive Chroma could result in poor water quality... but it can't be a direct cause for kidney failure...

Strange idea...  hmm.gif

hmmmm .... in a way, i do agree on HB this time. normally an organ failure can be from a weak fish that expose to bad water condition.

Sq, you din ask further right ? or probably the conversation was break down too much that could have been mix around.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(square_guy @ Mon 01 Dec 2003 09:39 AM)
with no proper studies done, we can only rely on the experience of others  tongue.gif

Yeah man! That's why I am happy to note during the CNA show that Alex from Poly is doing a research on green water. Actually, I thot he's only researching if it's possible to cultivate it indoors. I didn't know he's going as far as finding out the nutrition value too! Woo hoo!

I look forward to him publishing his unbiased results.
The Matrix
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Mon 01 Dec 2003 14:31 PM)
Yeah man!  That's why I am happy to note during the CNA show that Alex from Poly is doing a research on green water.  Actually, I thot he's only researching if it's possible to cultivate it indoors.  I didn't know he's going as far as finding out the nutrition value too! Woo hoo!

I look forward to him publishing his unbiased results.

u watch the CNA program again leh, see those glass tank all using MH lamps to cultivate the green. So the result might be still biasing towards the use of MH.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(demekin @ Mon 01 Dec 2003 14:54 PM)
u watch the CNA program again leh, see those glass tank all using MH lamps to cultivate the green. So the result might be still biasing towards the use of MH.

I did tried looking closely but I can't tell what kind of lamp he was using in the lab. MH ah?

Oei, I hope he's doing his research on both indoors and outdoors green water? It seems some people claims indoor's green water (MH or otherwise) are not the same as outdoor ones. sad.gif
square_guy
to be fair, i dun think they are very certain about that the protein causing kidney failure stuff.

we're talking abt green water and they brought up 2 negative point abt it. 1 is O2 burn, the other is about the protein causing kidney failure. upon which i asked whether they have experienced it and he replied "apparently" so.

i dun think it is conclusive, more of their own thoughts thru their experience.

i asked alex whether his results are published anywhere, and he said no. btw it's his final year project. good.gif

very shiok har, doing something he really like for studies laugh.gif
The Matrix
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Mon 01 Dec 2003 15:09 PM)
I did tried looking closely but I can't tell what kind of lamp he was using in the lab.  MH ah? 

Oei, I hope he's doing his research on both indoors and outdoors green water?  It seems some people claims indoor's green water (MH or otherwise) are not the same as outdoor ones. sad.gif

This i think got to ask ET liao.

ET ... update leh. How's your outdoor tub ?

Erh ... that ... egstring leh ? is he in here ? he also outdoor tub right ?

I noticed something about indoor one - the red is good. BUT the redness below the tummy not there at all. half half like dat.

maybe next time i buy red/white fish with tummy area white one. biggrin.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(demekin @ Mon 01 Dec 2003 18:50 PM)
I noticed something about indoor one - the red is good. BUT the redness below the tummy not there at all. half half like dat.

maybe next time i buy red/white fish with tummy area white one.  biggrin.gif

Got like dat one meh? unsure.gif

Out of curiosity, I took a look at my ranchus in/was in green water. Sway sway none has any red marking below waistline.

Unless you consider my Cheekysan a red fish, in which case, I just took a look and cannot find such a phenomenon wor.

I did took a bottom view pic of dead Torpedo before I burried him. Er... you don't mean this kind of lack of redness right? unsure.gif I'm sure that's normal.

IPB Image
LASERGUY
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Mon 01 Dec 2003 19:24 PM)
Got like dat one meh?  unsure.gif

Out of curiosity, I took a look at my ranchus in/was in green water.  Sway sway none has any red marking below waistline. 

Unless you consider my Cheekysan a red fish, in which case, I just took a look and cannot find such a phenomenon wor.

I did took a bottom view pic of dead Torpedo before I burried him.  Er... you don't mean this kind of lack of redness right?  unsure.gif  I'm sure that's normal.

Wah, where you buy this cheekysan ? $72 ? Kenna conned ? My latest 4" thai from AC was only $60.
CyberET
QUOTE(demekin @ Mon 01 Dec 2003 18:50 PM)
This i think got to ask ET liao.

ET ... update leh. How's your outdoor tub ?

Erh ... that ... egstring leh ? is he in here ? he also outdoor tub right ?

I noticed something about indoor one - the red is good. BUT the redness below the tummy not there at all. half half like dat.

maybe next time i buy red/white fish with tummy area white one.  biggrin.gif

nor, those 4 butterflies in the outdoor tub, only one butterfly is red, the other 3 r pandas, but can tell the red starting to intense up.. but tummy white

but the red ranchu that i had in it before it suffocated was intense red.. tummy also red, but not as red, but its a all red fish in the first place wor

got half red, half faded red ah?
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(LASERGUY @ Mon 01 Dec 2003 20:37 PM)
Wah, where you buy this cheekysan ? $72 ? Kenna conned ? My latest 4" thai from AC was only $60.

fatallan bought both from a bro in AF (remember that bro?) mad.gif

I had hope for them... but slowly but steadily confirmed that they are, although true japanese, stunt retail grades. sad.gif

One trait they still have over thais is... they are still very red ah! Damn style man.

That little $60 Thai fatallan bought from AC actually outgrew the japs now after just 2 months (in clear water somemore.) That's how stunt the japanese are. So when I accidentally killed Torpedo a few days ago... I wan't that disappointed especialy since I found out from bro ET that it has severly damaged gills. laugh.gif It amazed bro ET how I could kept it alive for so long.

For $60-$100.... go with a Thai from AC anytime!
CyberET
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Tue 02 Dec 2003 09:57 AM)
fatallan bought both from a bro in AF (remember that bro?)  mad.gif

I had hope for them... but slowly but steadily confirmed that they are, although true japanese, stunt retail grades. sad.gif

One trait they still have over thais is... they are still very red ah!  Damn style man.

That little $60 Thai fatallan bought from AC actually outgrew the japs now after just 2 months (in clear water somemore.)  That's how stunt the japanese are.  So when I accidentally killed Torpedo a few days ago... I wan't that disappointed especialy since I found out from bro ET that it has severly damaged gills.  laugh.gif  It amazed bro ET how I could kept it alive for so long.

For $60-$100.... go with a Thai from AC anytime!

of course.. i had a butterfly with that kinda gills that died in less than 2 weeks, hehe shiok.gif
smgutie
QUOTE(square_guy @ Sun 30 Nov 2003 17:36 PM)
- normal FL tubes can't reduce ammonia to zero. MH can.

I was reading this thread and was wondering what are FL tubes (fluorescent light?) and MH?
CyberET
QUOTE(smgutie @ Wed 03 Dec 2003 14:13 PM)
I was reading this thread and was wondering what are FL tubes (fluorescent light?) and MH?

metal halide
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(smgutie @ Wed 03 Dec 2003 14:13 PM)
I was reading this thread and was wondering what are FL tubes (fluorescent light?) and MH?

You're right on the FL, fluorescent lamp.

You might also come across reference to PL lamp. That's compact fluorescent lamp.
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