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sabao
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"Those used to be mine Tom. I spawned them and then sold them. They are third generation for me. Hopefully, there is something better in the fourth generation.

If judged for their kohaku pattern the largest fault would be the red in the tail and pectorals. I raise kohaku koi too and find it much more difficult to get clear fins in the goldfish. The male on the left needs a tail stop (short section of white at the end of the caudal peduncle). The red should not extend down over the eye as it does on the female. The balance of the pattern is OK. The conformation is OK too.

-steve"

Thanks again for your reply Steve. I'm seeing koi markings on goldfish in photos from Japan more frequently these days, looks like there's lots happening over there. Kohaku, sanke, showa, goshiki, asagi, and likely others. Looks to be a new direction with lots of potential for interested goldfish breeders.

I don't have a lot of knowledge on koi markings, just the bare basics. I know you are a very busy guy but I was hoping you might answer a few questions. Or anyone else out there who is up on this subject.

I know that Kohaku markings on koi is a big subject, and the details of what is ideal for the step patterns is not so difficult to grasp. But once the pattern does not fall into these categories it starts to get a bit more confusing and very interesting.

Can you tell me how, for example, would one judge markings such as this, on a sarassa goldfish? To be a good kohaku pattern, do the markings have to fall into one of the step pattern categories?

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Thanks,

Tom



bekko
If that fish were koi, they would first say that the conformation is not good. She has a narrow caudal peduncle and an abrupt narrowing in the transition from the abdomen to the peduncle. Conformation trumps color and a good pattern is useless on a poor frame. The pattern is not well balanced front-to-back but it would not take much white on the rear half to correct that. The pattern wraps down past the lateral line - a common (almost universal) problem when trying to get a goldfish with a koi pattern. She also needs a tail stop.

Getting a good koi pattern on a goldfish is more difficult than getting a good koi pattern on a koi. Koi patterns are what they are largely because that is what koi genetics have to offer. Trying to mimic that pattern on a goldfish or a dog or a pig is fun, but daunting.

-steve
sabao
Thanks for the comments Steve, your experience is much appreciated in helping me understand some of the basics of evaluating kohaku markings on goldfish. I guess on one level markings are very subjective and it really boils down to nothing more than what each person likes, but on a competative level of breeding for perfection it becomes a different story.

I think what I'm mostly not understanding about markings at this point is the concept of balance. Is it a matter of the amount of red and white on the front half of the fish should ideally be a similar ratio to the back half of the fish? Likewise the ratio of red to white should be similar on each side of the centre line from the nose to the tail?

Is it always about objective balance or is there more to making a decision as to which one is better than the others?

Here's another Hibuna:

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Would you say this fish is well balanced? To me this one looks quite well balanced on both sides of the centre line, but maybe there's too much red on the front half of the fish to balance the back half? And ideally there would be no red at the base of the pectorals, a bit more white at the tail stop, and also no red spilling onto the caudal?

Would this marking be classified as inazuma?
bekko
Correct on all counts Tom. Balance left to right and front to back. That's a nice fish.

They could have used you at LaGuardia yesterday.

-steve
sabao
Hi Steve - I helped start the bird control program at JFK ( which is only a few miles south of LaGuardia) in 1996, and we have minimized the bird strike risk there, even though this extremely busy airport is built adjacent to a major bird sanctuary.

Yesterday's event has brought to the forefront the need for proper bird control programs at all airports, hopefully people will learn to pay more attention to this very serious hazard.

As bad as this incident was, he could just as easily had one of those geese go through his front window.

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Thanks for your reply, guess I was further along on this topic than I thought. Here's a few more examples of kohaku markings on goldfish in Japan, I thought these were all incredible.

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Tom


sabao
Here's a few more goldfish from Japan with koi markings.

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LoyalOrangeLad
WOW shiok.gif There amaizing! I had no idea that breeding programmes like that were taking place. They will make exellent ornamental pond fish for people who don't have the space necissary to keep Koi
sabao
The Japanese goldfish breeders seem mostly to be pioneering this very interesting aspect of the goldfish hobby.

You're right, for people who don't have the big ponds to keep koi, there is an option to develope and enjoy their array of markings but without the commitment to large facilities. For now I think it's quite rare to find good koi markings on goldfish outside of Japan, but hopefully in the near future this will not be the case. The option is available for any goldfish breeder to select for many koi-like markings amongst their singletail fry, and then work towards refinement.

Check out this video of a rare, very high quality four-step Kohaku Comet for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfvFlyUQLQA...re=channel_page

Tom
sabao
Here's a few more examples of very high quality koi markings on Japanese Comets.

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Tom
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