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Absolute Ranchu
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Mon 12 Apr 2004 06:45 AM)
Hi, may I know what is a water purification system?

Sorry for the delay in answering your question. I personally use the carbon based water purification which is installed for all the water main in my house and farm. I use the same water as the fish. The filtering equipment is rather large and the carbon needs to be serviced around once every one or one and a half year. I can take pictures for you to see later if you like. Cheers.
CyberET
hmm... doesn't that remove chlorine etc.. but at the same time a certain percentage of the trace elements vital to the fish's growth?
CyberET
since thai municipal water might be different from singapore tap water.

Could u do some tests to find out your tap water parameters before and after carbon filtration?

Just for a comparison, Thanks

http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.ph...st=0&#entry6777
Absolute Ranchu
QUOTE(CyberET @ Fri 16 Apr 2004 10:57 AM)
hmm... doesn't that remove chlorine etc.. but at the same time a certain percentage of the trace elements vital to the fish's growth?

The best growth for fish starts and ends with water quality. It is the most important. There are additive and food supplements that you can add to increase the nutrient in the water. The Japanese system uses clean water only and look at the size of the fish in Japan. Mr.Tajiro's East Ozeki Oya from the AJRS are pushing 30 cms. Clean water is a great start. Algae is the best as food supplement in the green water system.

Trust me, using this system is ok for fish. I got quite a few number of fish over 20 cms long. good_very.gif
CyberET
QUOTE(Absolute Ranchu @ Fri 16 Apr 2004 04:48 PM)
The best growth for fish starts and ends with water quality.  It is the most important.  There are additive and food supplements that you can add to increase the nutrient in the water.  The Japanese system uses clean water only and look at the size of the fish in Japan.  Mr.Tajiro's East Ozeki Oya from the AJRS are pushing 30 cms. Clean water is a great start.  Algae is the best as food supplement in the green water system.

Trust me, using this system is ok for fish. I got quite a few number of fish over 20 cms long. good_very.gif

if u say green water is good for growth, then wat is Clean water ?

What is really Japan system which u have been referring to in several posts?

what do u specifically mean by green water system?

Clean Green Water?

Wat is green water to u? Here we go for intense green, is the picture i've attached the green u r referring?

IPB Image
Hazy
How to measure the Ammonia level in a green water?Where alll the test kit depend on colour to know the value of the Ammonia.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(Hazy @ Sat 17 Apr 2004 12:05 AM)
How to measure the Ammonia level in a green water?Where alll the test kit depend on colour to know the value of the Ammonia.

There's only one brand I know of that markets test kit for use in tinted water, JBL.

IPB Image
Seacucumber
no need to test lah.....
as long as you maintain your stocking ratio and your water is green with ample sunlight, dun overfeed, should be no problem.....
Hazy
Well,can see bro G-string don't believe in test kit. laugh.gif
Yesterday just bought a test pen and found out the PH of the tapwater over my area is 8.9. rusure.gif and my main tank is 7.8.
Is this normal??
mrchoco
filtered green water???
my tank became like this after i went for reservist.
1 week no change water.
mrchoco
there's actually filters running.
IOS and canister(will be rid of it soon)
Absolute Ranchu
QUOTE(CyberET @ Fri 16 Apr 2004 05:32 PM)
if u say green water is good for growth, then wat is Clean water ?

What is really Japan system which u have been referring to in several posts?

what do u specifically mean by green water system?

Clean Green Water?

Wat is green water to u? Here we go for intense green, is the picture i've attached the green u r referring?

The two systems are two choices that hobbyist can choose from (actually there are other system too, but it will take too long to get into). The clean water system is reserved for the hardcore keepers only. The green system is adopted by most keepers who do not have enough time.

The thing about ranchu that I find is unique is that, there are no set solution for anything. You can be successful in using the different system that you use at home, as long as you educate yourself a bit about the nature of your fish. Ranchu lives in different weather around the world. In our region, ranchu never hybernate. In Japan, and most western countries, ranchu will hybernate for about three months without eating anything. The system from a clean system, becomes a green system, by default. You have to keep fish in the same environment throughout the winter.

How successful you are as a keeper, often depends on how much you experiment. Most keeper have to start the equation with the available free time you have to take care of your fish throughout its life. I have lots of help so I can do things that most people cant. The key is for you to educate yourself the most, then try to apply it to your fish as much as possible, as time permits for you. Most of your have a job to go to, so you know how much free time you have for your fish. To know the best way to keep fish, doesn't mean that you will be able to copy it 100% where you are. You have to modify it to best suit your needs.

I have two jobs that I have to juggle, but I have developed an easy system for my staffs to follow, that's the best for my fish at the farm. You have to try to find the right system that fits your need, at home, and stick to it.

Sawasdee krap

Pat peace.gif
mountain
QUOTE(Hazy @ Sat 17 Apr 2004 01:59 PM)
Well,can see bro G-string don't believe in test kit. laugh.gif
Yesterday just bought a test pen and found out the PH of the tapwater over my area is 8.9. rusure.gif  and my main tank is 7.8.
Is this normal??

Ph test pen? have you correctly calibrated it?
u can double check against a cheap PH solution test kit.
Hazy
i calibrated it before i use
CyberET
QUOTE(Hazy @ Sat 17 Apr 2004 01:59 PM)
Well,can see bro G-string don't believe in test kit. laugh.gif
Yesterday just bought a test pen and found out the PH of the tapwater over my area is 8.9. rusure.gif  and my main tank is 7.8.
Is this normal??

normal, my tap water is pH 9 smile.gif
CyberET
QUOTE(mrchoco @ Sat 17 Apr 2004 02:41 PM)
filtered green water???
my tank became like this after i went for reservist.
1 week no change water.

eh? your filter not working?
max
Members, I wish to raise a point which I think most of us missed out as we go along in our hobby. The primary objective of keeping goldfish at home is to have a tank/tub which we can enjoy at every moment, what is the point of having green water where what we can see is only green tub nothing but greenish water, wouldn't that defeat our primary purpose of fish keeping?

Please no hard feeling, just curious.
mrchoco
eh to some us, our enjoyment in fish keeping is not just about seeing your fish swim.
it is about seeing your fish grow into a better fish. That is the most satisfying part to us.
CyberET
QUOTE(Absolute Ranchu @ Sat 17 Apr 2004 05:45 PM)
The two systems are two choices that hobbyist can choose from (actually there are other system too, but it will take too long to get into).  The clean water system is reserved for the hardcore keepers only.  The green system is adopted by most keepers who do not have enough time. 

The thing about ranchu that I find is unique is that, there are no set solution for anything.  You can be successful in using the different system that you use at home, as long as you educate yourself a bit about the nature of your fish. Ranchu lives in different weather around the world.  In our region, ranchu never hybernate.  In Japan, and most western countries, ranchu will hybernate for about three months without eating anything. The system from a clean system, becomes a green system, by default. You have to keep fish in the same environment throughout the winter. 

How successful you are as a keeper, often depends on how much you experiment.  Most keeper have to start the equation with the available free time you have to take care of your fish throughout its life. I have lots of help so I can do things that most people cant.  The key is for you to educate yourself the most, then try to apply it to your fish as much as possible, as time permits for you.  Most of your have a job to go to, so you know how much free time you have for your fish.  To know the best way to keep fish, doesn't mean that you will be able to copy it 100% where you are.  You have to modify it to best suit your needs.

I have two jobs that I have to juggle, but I have developed an easy system for my staffs to follow, that's the best for my fish at the farm.  You have to try to find the right system that fits your need, at home, and stick to it. 

Sawasdee krap

Pat peace.gif

shouldn't the hobby be made as simple as possible? if so much work is required, wouldn't it take the interest out of the hobby? as in your case, issn't it eating into your profits (ie, man power)?

could you explain in details about the clean and green system? Thanks

i'm confused, do u mean that clean system is preventing it turning green by constantly siphoning soiled water out? i still don't understand what you mean by green system sad.gif

well, our weather is almost similar to thailand, could u share your solution to being sucessful raising of ranchu in this kinda climate?

which is y i'm trying to understand as in depth, and as well as i can, so that i'll be able to modify, adopt, and learn more about the hobby smile.gif

the information here are rather scattered and most of the hobbyists follow what is easily found in the web, you are the next nearest contact to understand how ranchu are kept. By learning from you, it's another step to attain better knowledge.

what is a right system? or what would u recommend Singapore keeper with busy working lifestyle and small HDB limited floor space.


peace.gif

ps. so how many fishes did caster buy? laugh.gif
mountain
QUOTE
what is a right system? or what would u recommend Singapore keeper with busy working lifestyle and small HDB limited floor space


More Hardwork. peace.gif
CyberET
QUOTE(mountain @ Sun 18 Apr 2004 11:09 AM)

More Hardwork.  peace.gif

bag.gif
max
QUOTE(mrchoco @ Sun 18 Apr 2004 01:19 AM)
eh to some us, our enjoyment in fish keeping is not just about seeing your fish swim.
it is about seeing your fish grow into a better fish. That is the most satisfying part to us.

oranda.gif Ido agree that green water is beneficial to goldfish, but green water deprive hobbyist the joy to be able to view the fish unsure.gif

True, goldfish grow better in green water largely because it munch on the floating algae in between feeds. I believe in striking a compromise, wouldn't it be better to have clear water with duck weed at a cornor of tank/tub with I think is equal in nu-tri-tional value.

The green water way of fish keeping reminds me of folks who bought Rolex watches to be kept in the safe deposit box only to bring it out to view occasionally.

Clear water is certainly my preferred method. yes.gif
CyberET
there r different levels of appreciation in any hobby, just as u said, there r ppl who buy rolex watches to be kept in safe deposit box biggrin.gif

some ppl enjoy watching the fish, while others enjoy seeing the fish grow and develop.

i find green water more suitable for me as i don't have the time to view them during weekdays, so when i'm free on the weekends, i'll enjoy my fishes during and after water change biggrin.gif

personally, its no fun viewing them so often, once a week or as in my case, once every fortnight, viewing them, and noticing the changes can be fun and rewarding laugh.gif

as for use and purpose of green water, its not largely for nutritional value.. smile.gif
desireless
I started green water because I have many small tanks to house my fishes.... changing water is really tiring. So I keep 1/3 of my fishes in green water tub (now I am thinking of starting another tub) and thus I only need to change water once weekly and occasionally poo scoop. Checking the fishes once every 7 days is like not seeing a good friend for very long.. you see them again you'll adore them every more. It's the kind of self-created thrill "wow, they grown bigger liao!", "wen is more developed liao!"

On other hand, I still keep my other fishes in my glass tanks so I can view them everyday. Keeping fishes in clean water and seeing them everyday is just like having sex... you have sex everyday you still won't grow tired of it, right? biggrin.gif

Thus I understand both side of stories. But I support more to green water because it really save a lot of work for me. peace.gif
mushroom
QUOTE
in striking a compromise, wouldn't it be better to have clear water with duck weed at a cornor of tank/tub with I think is equal in nu-tri-tional value.


How do you keep your goldfish from munching on those duck weed?
max
Hi & thank you to CyberET & desireless for the kind response, I was expecting all green water members to come down hard on my clearwater vs green water post.

Yes I do realise that different ppl appreciate fish differently, it is only my tot that all. thanks. Like the other day I was telling my goldfish kaki about the beauty of top view ranchu & his reply was that kind of fishkeeping is about looking at tub & basin from top, of cos I disagree with him.

Hi Mushroom, goldfish love duck weeds, what you can do is to cultivate some duckweed separately in a foambox with some small fishes in it & leave it in the sun, it multiply real quick, then occasionally scoop the weeds into your goldfish tank as supplement for them. Don't stop them from munching on DW.

Cheers to Clear water & Green water good_very.gif yes.gif
nismoman77
QUOTE(max @ Sun 18 Apr 2004 04:25 PM)
Hi & thank you to CyberET & desireless for the kind response, I was expecting all green water members to come down hard on my clearwater vs green water post.

Yes I do realise that different ppl appreciate fish differently, it is only my tot that all. thanks. Like the other day I was telling my goldfish kaki about the beauty of top view ranchu & his reply was that kind of fishkeeping is about looking at tub & basin from top, of cos I disagree with him.

Hi Mushroom, goldfish love duck weeds, what you can do is to cultivate some duckweed separately in a foambox with some small  fishes in it & leave it in the sun, it multiply real quick, then occasionally scoop the weeds into your goldfish tank as supplement for them. Don't stop them from munching on DW.

Cheers to Clear water & Green water good_very.gif  yes.gif

I tink a big big drawback wif green water is that if u keep in fiber glass,u cant observe if certain fish is sick i.e lying below,not eating,white spots,parasites etc..Cos u cant c them. . Even they die u oso duno at times unless they float to the surface! wink.gif


Any bros experience tis problem??
nismoman77
I just start using Bio home n Eh subtrates,u noe wat,the green water is not so green almost clear(on the box of Bio Hm it says, it will rid green water) did believe at 1st,after putting in bio hm,the water start to clear up after sometime..I keep figuring wat d dat s i didnt add anything new except Bio hm n Eh subtrate!!Under hot sun oso not s green s b4,b4 i got to cover wif plywood nw dun need!!

Any guys experience the same thing??

Go experiment guys..

I was amazed!! good_very.gif hmm.gif beg2.gif
Allan
QUOTE(nismoman77 @ Sun 18 Apr 2004 07:44 PM)
I just start using Bio home n Eh subtrates,u noe wat,the green water is not so green almost clear(on the box of Bio Hm it says, it will rid green water) did believe at 1st,after putting in bio hm,the water start to clear up after sometime..I keep figuring wat d dat s i didnt add anything new except Bio hm n Eh subtrate!!Under hot sun oso not s green s b4,b4 i got to cover wif plywood nw dun need!!

Any guys experience the same thing??

Go experiment  guys..

I was amazed!! good_very.gif  hmm.gif  beg2.gif

The only reason I can think of is your BioHome have BB in them now, and they compete with algae for ammonia and won the war. Basically your algae are starved to death since they don't have enough ammonia.
Absolute Ranchu
QUOTE(CyberET @ Sun 18 Apr 2004 08:48 AM)
shouldn't the hobby be made as simple as possible? if so much work is required, wouldn't it take the interest out of the hobby? as in your case, issn't it eating into your profits (ie, man power)?

could you explain in details about the clean and green system? Thanks

i'm confused, do u mean that clean system is preventing it turning green by constantly siphoning soiled water out? i still don't understand what you mean by green system sad.gif

well, our weather is almost similar to thailand, could u share your solution to being sucessful raising of ranchu in this kinda climate?

which is y i'm trying to understand as in depth, and as well as i can, so that i'll be able to modify, adopt, and learn more about the hobby smile.gif

the information here are rather scattered and most of the hobbyists follow what is easily found in the web, you are the next nearest contact to understand how ranchu are kept. By learning from you, it's another step to attain better knowledge.

what is a right system? or what would u recommend Singapore keeper with busy working lifestyle and small HDB limited floor space.


peace.gif

ps. so how many fishes did caster buy? laugh.gif

The first question to yourself is, why are you keeping your fish? If it is for recreational and hobby purposes, then your chores will be rather light. If you are doing it to compete, then you need to do more work and you have to pay quite a lot for fish. (High price often make people more willing to put in the time and extra effort.) If you are keeping fish to breed, then you are doomed for the most amount of work. Not only do you need to know how to keep fish, you will need to know how to breed, too.

I have friends who collect cars, they spend all day waxing them and do not let any one touch them. They don't even want to drive them on the road. I think that's so ridiculous to spend Millions on things you can't even drive. But to each their own right. We all have our own corkiness that makes us different.

Ranchu is first my hobby, then my passion, and now my job. This is the reason that makes me a bit crazed when it comes to fish. You need to find your own reason and stick to that. My craziness, however, does have benefits which others can share as well, I think.

The Japanese system that I copied, I obtained information through breeders that I have met and japanese books and publications. The clean system is exactly that, use clean water. This is also an open system. Green water is a closed system and requires that you to treat the water over and over again. How you keep the water clean, depends on your imagination and your resources. Keeping fresh water aquarium clean is truly a lot easier in comparision with salt tanks. You just have to make sure that your filtration systems has enough capacity to recycle and clean the water 100%. How do you know that? Consult a tank specialist. The calculation is pretty standard, I think. I have always relied on professional in most my aquarium endeavour, since mistakes that I learn on my own are often very expensive and painful.

The adding of new water is another technique of increasing fish appetite to try to stimulate growth. This method is not recommended for high grade fish, however, since the fast growth will more than likely destroy the balance of ranchus. (I find that it works really well with ryukin, orlanda, hamanishiki, fish with dorsal fins.) People who do this will prepare two ponds to keep the fish, both filled with clean water of same temperature. After finishing feeding the fish for about an hour, they will move the fish to the other pond. The fish in new water will regain it's appetite again and they can start feeding again while the cleaning process starts in the other pond. This is done over and over again. This requires a lot of work,but the fish will grow and grow. The complexion will also be terrible. This is what farms do to make fish grow quickly. This is not recommended for ranchu, though. I have brought this up to make a point that by adding new water, you are helping the fish to gain appetite. It is good because it will make the fish more alert. Alert fish is healthy fish. Fat fish are inactive and are prone to disease.

Goldfish has more appetite in warmer climate than in colder climate. That's the nature of the fish. This is why I recommend that you feed a little at a time. Less is always more, remember. If you do not have a lot of time for your fish, feed it once a day in the morning and do not overfeed. Fish needs light to digest the food. The worst thing to do is to feed it at night. Goldfish are truly pigs and they will try to eat as much as possible at one sitting, and that's bad for their health.

The link to the article that I found in AF site on bladder problems answers the questions of why you need to soak your food pellets before feeding very well. Read it, it's in the ailment section. For adult fish, the type of food does not really matter live feed or pellet food. Application methods is more crucial. I showed Caster how we deal with the risk posed by using live feed by using technology.
We use an ozone system to clean all our feeds. This will take more time to get into and I will save it for later. This thread is already long enough, I think.

For busy keeper, use the auto feeder, and limit the amount of feed to be about 5-10 per fish per feeding. You can presoak the pellet feed when you have time, then dry them out, after it is dried after the soak then it's ready for use in the auto feeder. This will reduce the risk of hurting the fish stomach with raw pellets. Dry them in the sun, it's ok. You should not presoak a lot of food since unused feed could be soiled after a while. I only do a little at a time, when I am not at home. You should clean the filtration mat every day, and ciphon visible solid waste as often as possible. If you are really busy use bacteria to help it is guarantee to work. Product from Whitcrane product from Thailand is very good and inexpensive.

Hope this help, and please excuse the lengthy post.

Pat peace.gif
CyberET
How do you, and why is it required to treat green water over and over again?

i've always believe that a filtration system is not a purification system, nothing beats water change, right? peace.gif

y are the fishes able to start eating again after transferring to fresh water? if they r not transfered, wouldn't would happen? food left uneaten? besides soiling the water, what do they use up in the water during comsumption of food that they require, such that upon transfer, they immeditaly regain their appitide?

sometimes fat fish r bloated fish indicating something worse coming up, no?

i can't see the reasoning as to y goldfish needing light to digest the food, i know its bad to feed during the night due to metebolism reasons, but light?

most of the time, a fish experiencing buoyancy problems issn't due to an infection of the swim bladder, but mainly due to gill problems, if not treated early, would result in permanent damage of the swimming bladder. addressing the root of the cause early usually allows the fish to make a complete recovery smile.gif

hmm.. whitecrane.. it issn't easy finding their product in sg sad.gif
max
QUOTE(Allan @ Sun 18 Apr 2004 07:50 PM)
The only reason I can think of is your BioHome have BB in them now, and they compete with algae for ammonia and won the war.  Basically your algae are starved to death since they don't have enough ammonia.

:cheers1 Hi Allan, the bb don't compete with algae for ammonia but algae actually benefits from the bb thru the nitrogen cycle.

The nitrogen cycle refers to the process thru which bb reduce fish waste & excretion into enviromentally harmless compounds, first reduce ammonia into nitrite, then nitrite into nitrate, plant & algae then use the nitrateas fertilizer.
(Aquarium basics)

The thing that bb compete with algae is dissolved oxygen. :cheers1
CyberET
QUOTE(nismoman77 @ Sun 18 Apr 2004 07:35 PM)
I tink a big big drawback wif green water is that if u keep in fiber glass,u cant observe if certain fish is sick i.e lying below,not eating,white spots,parasites etc..Cos u cant c them. . Even they die u oso duno at times unless they float to the surface! wink.gif


Any bros experience tis problem??

smile.gif with experience, the color, intensity, thickness, etc.. of the green is an accurate indicator of the fish's condition
CyberET
depending on different species of algae, certain strains prefer ammonia, some nitrite, and others nitrate, for some, first choice food is ammonia, which unless is depleted, they would start munching on nitrate smile.gif not all plant organism does that however, that's y carpet algae is more commonly found in filtered tanks wink.gif
Absolute Ranchu
I have added a picture of my pond in the AF photo gallery. The picture that I have included is taken at night. I have four halogen lamps for the pond. This is to help with feeding at night. An expert told me about the 20 minutes of lights after feeding for the digesting problem.

There sure are a lot of aqua theoretician in the aquarium circle in SG. Excellent to read. I have learned quite a bit about keeping fish in tanks since I have joined here. happydance1.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(Absolute Ranchu @ Mon 19 Apr 2004 01:21 PM)
I have added a picture of my pond in the AF photo gallery.

... which is accessible by clicking on the "Gallery" button on the bottom of your post's table.
max
QUOTE(CyberET @ Mon 19 Apr 2004 11:56 AM)
depending on different species of algae, certain strains prefer ammonia, some nitrite, and others nitrate, for some, first choice food is ammonia, which unless is depleted, they would start munching on nitrate smile.gif not all plant organism does that however, that's y carpet algae is more commonly found in filtered tanks wink.gif

rofl.gif Hi CyberET, do you mean to say that certain species of algae consume ammonia?If so, can kindly enlighten me on the algae type?

The earlier post says that the green water become less green after using bio-home, so does it also mean that suspended algae also feed on ammonia? If that is the case then green water should not have high ammonia content oredi.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(max @ Mon 19 Apr 2004 02:31 PM)
Hi CyberET, do you mean to say that certain species of algae consume ammonia?If so, can kindly enlighten me on the algae type?

There are many types of "free-floating" algae but in general they are lumped as the unicelluar algae. As the name implies, they are single cell in size so you can't see one with your naked eyes but collectively they turn water green. yes.gif Their small size also make them difficult to identify correctly by ... well, practically everyone without a microscope. So they don't blame anyone if they can't tell which specific type you're having.

Now let me try to make you believe the type of unicelluar algae we talked about here takes in ammonia.

You may have heard it's advisable to change green water once a week. If you can't afford the time, don't use green water, as they say.

You probably also know that it takes time to cycle, ie, cultivate BB, a tank. If you use ceramic / sinter glass material, expect 3-4 weeks min.

Now, if the green water pple change their water (100% but seed some back) once a week, do you think there's a nitrogen cycle going on? Furthermore, the pond/tub/tank only has an air-stone. No biohome or other bio-media to cultivate BB at all, which only makes the nitrogen cycle even more difficult to take place.

Fish produces ammonia.

Without bio-filtration, where did all the ammonia go?

The answer is... the unicellular algae in the green water is a filter -- an all natural one that produces no harmful by-products.

Tada! tada.gif
max
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Mon 19 Apr 2004 03:00 PM)
Now let me try to make you believe the type of unicelluar algae we talked about here takes in ammonia.

You may have heard it's advisable to change green water once a week.  If you can't afford the time, don't use green water, as they say.

You probably also know that it takes time to cycle, ie, cultivate BB, a tank.  If you use ceramic / sinter glass material, expect 3-4 weeks min.

Now, if the green water pple change their water (100% but seed some back) once a week, do you think there's a nitrogen cycle going on?  Furthermore, the pond/tub/tank only has an air-stone.  No biohome or other bio-media to cultivate BB at all, which only makes the nitrogen cycle even more difficult to take place.

Fish produces ammonia.

Without bio-filtration, where did all the ammonia go?

The answer is... the unicellular algae in the green water is a filter -- an all natural one that produces no harmful by-products.

Tada!  tada.gif

no.gif don't tada so soon bcos I'm still not convinced. if floating or unicellular algae feed on ammonia why does green water ppl change their water 100% weekly? & I think you're wrong to say that they don't use biological filter, the sponge filter that you preach is also a form of biological filter. Most green water ppl uses sponge filter.
I believe the bb from the sponge filter convert the ammonia into harmless compounds.

I strongly believe HB that you probably assume that unicellular algae eat up the ammonia. smoke.gif
mountain
max: green water ppl change their green water 100% for more reasons than just ammonia.

who are the "most green water ppl who uses sponge filter??"

"I believe the bb from the sponge filter convert the ammonia into harmless compounds" , wat comes out after ammonia? all harmless compounds? sure?

side note:
interesting topic , green water and bio-filtration. Without fully understand these things, it can lead to disaster for the fish. (not saying you are wrong max, for now)

some of us may have different agreement with the above discussion on green water with bio-filtration. I am saying these points with my limited experience in using green water. i am looking forward to meeting/discussing with hobbist who have experiences with green water and Bio-filtration running together (supported with ammonia/ph/nitrite/nitrate test results). Max, what are your readings on the 5th or 6th day after water change?
max
QUOTE(mountain @ Mon 19 Apr 2004 04:55 PM)
max: green water ppl change their green water 100% for more reasons than just ammonia.


side note:
interesting topic , green water and bio-filtration. Without fully understand these things, it can lead to disaster for the fish. (not saying you are wrong  max, for now)

some of us may have different agreement with the above discussion on green water with bio-filtration. I am saying these points with my limited experience in using green water. i am looking forward to meeting/discussing with hobbist who have experiences with green water and Bio-filtration running together (supported with ammonia/ph/nitrite/nitrate test results). Max, what are your readings on the 5th or 6th day after water change?

I personally feels that it is perfectly alright to use sponge filter in green water. I'm not into green water yet but think it will not lead to disaster as what you claim.

Algae absorb sunlight to make their own food & produce oxygen, a process called photosynthesis.

I'm truely glad that you are taking the matter up for discussion with the green water people, for all we know it could be an something you & me overlooked.

side note; maybe can let me noe why green water ppl change their water 100% other than ammonia (water parameters). thanks.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(max @ Mon 19 Apr 2004 04:14 PM)
no.gif  don't tada so soon bcos I'm still not convinced. if floating or unicellular algae feed on ammonia why does green water ppl change their water 100% weekly? & I think you're wrong to say that they don't use biological filter, the sponge filter that you preach is also a form of biological filter. Most green water ppl uses sponge filter.
I believe the bb from the sponge filter convert the ammonia into harmless compounds.

I strongly believe HB that you probably assume that unicellular algae eat up the ammonia. smoke.gif

Max, there are many reasons why there's a need to change green water to list here but the main reason has to do with intensity. When the green water is too intense, the water will be over-loaded with DO during the day, causing oxygen burn to the fishes. At night, the opposite takes place and fishes suffocate to death becoz there's insufficient DO in the water. You can read up the other effects of overly intense green water elsewhere in RG.

As for the sponge filter... I guess I may have misled you into thinking my guppy tub (seen here) is a green water tub. No, it's a clear water tub filtered by the sponge filters.

I don't know how to prove it but a true outdoor green water tub/pond does not use the sponge filter or any other kind of bio-filtration at all. That would defeat one of the purpose of green water. You may have seen bubbling on the water surface but that's just an air-stone aerating the water. tongue.gif

So... if the green water tub/pond does not have bio-filtration, the algae ate the ammonia. biggrin.gif

May I tada now? unsure.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(max @ Mon 19 Apr 2004 07:17 PM)
I'm truely glad that you are taking the matter up for discussion with the green water people, for all we know it could be an something you & me overlooked.

There's already a thread in AF that an idiot put up about his experiment with what he termed "Bio-Green Water". So... if you're interested... ask him for an answer. yes.gif

http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81032
mountain
bash.gif crap, I wasted a few bytes from my broadband plan!!
nobnoba
max,
how do u research your claim about 'green water ppl use filter sponge'?
i am using green water and clear water. its the truth, the clear water never turn green because it is using filter sponge. as for my green water tank, it is WITHOUT any filter.

Both are in the same area outdoor, both have the same amount of goldfish, same tank, same aeration, same feeds.
max
QUOTE(mrchoco @ Sat 17 Apr 2004 02:41 PM)
filtered green water???
my tank became like this after i went for reservist.
1 week no change water.

User Posted Image

Sorry I take so long to reply, had a heavy duty day yesterday, after checking with some experts I'm convinced that green water does not go well with bio-filter, but if this two combine together than the water will not be intense green.

That might be the reason why Mr Mrchoco is going to discard his IOS (see quote).

Thanks again for taking pain to explain to me, I enjoy those replies hope you guys feels the same.
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