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YLD
Hi,

Anyone got any idea what the idea tank depth/ height for both top view and side view ranchu?
CyberET
QUOTE(YLD @ Mon 01 Dec 2003 17:26 PM)
Hi,

Anyone got any idea what the idea tank depth/ height for both top view and side view ranchu?

erm.. its a subjective issue..
for me my bigger tub is slightly over 1ft, but i think its recommended not to go above 1.5ft?
i'm not sure either
The Matrix
QUOTE(YLD @ Mon 01 Dec 2003 17:26 PM)
Hi,

Anyone got any idea what the idea tank depth/ height for both top view and side view ranchu?

up to you liao.

for japanese, their cement pond not exceeding 10". For chinese cement pond, some over 2m deep, some 2ft at most.
YLD
If i managed to sell off one of my 4 ft by 18in by 20in (L x B x H) tank, i will get a tank with a lower depth for goldfish. Therefore checking what the ideal tank height for goldfish.

My objective is to have a tank suitable for goldfish and also allow me to view from the side and at the same time low enough for top viewing.

Thanx for the reply.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(YLD @ Mon 01 Dec 2003 19:02 PM)
My objective is to have a tank suitable for goldfish and also allow me to view from the side and at the same time low enough for top viewing.

Can I suggest you keep the present tank and buy a plastic guppy tub strictly for your top view fishes? Having a glass tank "low enough" is a compromise that... probably makes both side-viewing and top-viewing unpleasant. If you have the space, the guppy tub can be had for as low as $35. yes.gif

I can't remember the exact figure but if I'm not wrong, the suggested depth is 6, 8 and 12 inches for tosai, nisai and oya ranchu.

Now this low depth will play havoc to your other goldfish like oranda, demekin etc since they have dorsal fin that need to extend!

So... having a seperate tub for your (top-view) ranchu may be the right way instead of compromising your viewing pleasure and the fish's own comfort. sad.gif

Cheers!
YLD
Hi bro HB,

Thanx for the suggestion.

This is my observation, correct me if im wrong. I noticed ranchu are more active in low depth tank i.e fibre glass tank. One recent experience is at Home of Ranchu @ bukit batok where they have a huge and deep glass tank. I noted the BIG ranchu in there are unactive. Could their behaviour due to the depth of the tank?

I also rememdered one bro mentioned that the depth of the tank contribute to the growth of ranchu. Something like deep water cause ranchu to develop long body etc (subjected to errors!)

I actually have this in mind. With my current tank, i could place plastic partition horizontally and use them as the tank new base and adjust to desired height. This new base actually limit the goldfish from reaching the full depth of my 20 inch tank. Do u think this would reduce the water pressure on the goldfish?

BTW what the deminsions of the guppy tub?
HappyBuddha
I did not pay much attention to those top-view ranchus in the 2 tubs at Home of Ranchus except noted from the shop keepers those are fishes belonging to his friend and are at the shop on consignment. biggrin.gif

There are a few points to take note when you do the artificial depth thingy with, I presume, plastic dividers commonly used as LH's tank's partition. For one thing, you cannot feed sinking type pellets or bloodworms since the food would sink below it and onto the floor. sad.gif You also have to make sure the fishes don't swim under accidentally trapping itself underneath; sometimes goldfish need to come up to the surface to gasp for air. But if you could set it up safely, it's like having a build-in sump tank with an extra volume of water. smile.gif

I'm not sure about the water pressure theory. If anything, I understand some chinese farmers have deep ponds to raise their goldfish. A bro did mentioned the relatively low depth for Japanese ranchus is to prevent them from developing a bad habit of diving instead of swimming horizontally.
YLD
Hi Bro HB,

I will take note to prevent the fish from trapping below the artificial. Since there are not many holes on the plastics partition, i presumed that most of the sinking pellets and bloodworm will be available for the goldfish. I also plan to keep some bottom feeding fish like cory to feed on food that landed on the botom of the tank.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(YLD @ Tue 02 Dec 2003 18:11 PM)
Hi Bro HB,

I will take note to prevent the fish from trapping below the artificial. Since there are not many holes on the plastics partition, i presumed that most of the sinking pellets and bloodworm will be available for the goldfish. I also plan to keep some bottom feeding fish like cory to feed on food that landed on the botom of the tank.

Kekeke. Let's hope the cory doesn't hurt your goldfish. They are fast swimmer and I heard could eat the goldfish's body slime. I'd just use a water pump to sweep the floor clean instead.

QUOTE(Hun_Citizen @ Tue 02 Dec 2003 18:35 PM)
hb, this is what I have posted before

======================================
age of ranchu = growth of ranchu = depth of water.

a general rule in desire growth a ranchu, new water must prepare with blue water and blue moss related to depth.

ranchu baby water deep 7-10cm.
tosai blue water deep 10-15cm.
nisai blue water deep 15-20cm.
oya blue water deep 20-25cm.

water deep than desire affect meat lump growing as pressure is greater than desire.
======================================



Oh yes I was looking for this! beg2.gif
CyberET
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Tue 02 Dec 2003 19:55 PM)
Kekeke.  Let's hope the cory doesn't hurt your goldfish.  They are fast swimmer and I heard could eat the goldfish's body slime.  I'd just use a water pump to sweep the floor clean instead.

not just that, but it happened many times, hungry goldfish managed to catch hold of corys and attempted to stuff it down their mouth ohmy.gif
YLD
I will take note. Thanx to all.
chaq
Hi, is 1 feet depth ok? biggrin.gif
mountain
Hi chaq, u might want to take a small note as 1 ft height tank might not hold enuff water volumn for your fish even if its 2 ft wide..
chaq
Ok, i will make it maybe 14-16 inches, thanks
Chinmo
Helo bros! i got a tank with a height of 2.5 ft smile.gif can the tank be used to keep goldfish? water level when will is aroud 2.2 ft. smile.gif Pls advise. tongue.gif
Seacucumber
can lah......just whack lah......bo chup lah.....
CP
QUOTE(Chinmo @ Tue, 05 Oct 2004 7:13 am)
Helo bros! i got a tank with a height of 2.5 ft smile.gif  can the tank be used to keep goldfish? water level when will is aroud 2.2 ft. smile.gif  Pls advise. tongue.gif
*

Sounds more like a marine tank.Hard to reach tank bottom with your hands.Have you tried?
What's the lenght and width?

Anyway,mine is 2 ft deep which is against most peoples advice.Keh kiang actually.
I cant reach the back of the tank bottom.
desireless
The recommended height is 1.5ft for goldfish. 2ft maybe still can. You have to note that pressure is based on height of water.
Chinmo
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:10 am)
Sounds more like a marine tank.Hard to reach tank bottom with your hands.Have you tried?
What's the lenght and width?

Anyway,mine is 2 ft deep which is against most peoples advice.Keh kiang actually.
I cant reach the back of the tank bottom.
*


Heehee.... it's used to be a marine tank, but converting soon to goldfish shiok.gif ! want to keep orandas and ryukin leh....

yep, if fill with water, u get ur armpit wet tongue.gif
Chinmo
QUOTE(g-string @ Tue, 05 Oct 2004 7:52 am)
can lah......just whack lah......bo chup lah.....
*


Hahaha! i want to whack one... but scared wait i lose the nice nice fish i like, so better to ask first b4 whacking. good_very.gif
Chinmo
QUOTE(desireless @ Tue, 05 Oct 2004 1:00 pm)
The recommended height is 1.5ft for goldfish. 2ft maybe still can. You have to note that pressure is based on height of water.
*


maybe i go do somthing to the overflow pipe and see what i can modified. smile.gif i was worried the goldfish cannt tahan the pressure. unsure.gif
CP
QUOTE(Chinmo @ Tue, 05 Oct 2004 1:38 pm)
i was worried the goldfish cannt tahan the pressure. unsure.gif
*

Dont worry.
I used to have 3 pcs of Thai Tosai TV (ave grade) measuring abt 2" which I had wanted to give away.No takers,so threw it into my friend's 6 feet deep koi pond.
No problem at all.Stay at pond bottom and come to surface when there's food.
mountain
6 ft deep ... gosh ..
nobnoba
QUOTE(cpiw2002 @ Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:58 pm)
Dont worry.
I used to have 3 pcs of  Thai Tosai TV (ave grade) measuring abt 2" which I had wanted to give away.No takers,so threw it into my friend's  6 feet deep koi pond.
No problem at all.Stay at pond bottom and come to surface when there's food.
*


how about the development of that TV? did u notice its tail?
CP
QUOTE(nobnoba @ Tue, 05 Oct 2004 7:54 pm)
how about the development of that TV? did u notice its tail?
*

Not only the tail,the fish did not grow which is why I discarded them in the first place. biggrin.gif
Only improvement in colouration from the bio green pond water.

Anyway,after 3 months,we tranferred the fishes into the filter compartment of the pond.Bad choice.Got sucked by the powerful filters. prayer.gif

Disclaimer:I am not promoting keeping ranchus in deep water.I am saying that even small ranchus will have no problem surviving in deep water.
HappyBuddha
Erm... ponds in chinese farms are easily over 2 feet deep.

But hor... chinese farmers don't keep tv ranchus in those ponds hor.

I maybe wrong but it should be fine for long-bodied goldfish like lion head goldfish.
Chinmo
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Thu, 07 Oct 2004 2:37 pm)
Erm... ponds in chinese farms are easily over 2 feet deep.

But hor... chinese farmers don't keep tv ranchus in those ponds hor.

I maybe wrong but it should be fine for long-bodied goldfish like lion head goldfish.
*


Helo HB, was thinking of getting orandas and ryukin for this tank... think it's suitable? unsure.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(Chinmo @ Fri, 08 Oct 2004 1:21 am)
Helo HB, was thinking of getting orandas and ryukin for this tank... think it's suitable? unsure.gif
*

I'm sure those are fine in addition to celestial eyes, bubble eyes, pom poms etc long bodied traditionally bred in china's goldfish.
Chinmo
Thanks! shiok.gif Cool! Bubble eyes! any idea where have nice bubbles eyes for sale? shiok.gif
awrieger
I've read in CP's Beginner's Guide to Goldfish Keeping thread that 2 foot depth is fine for goldfish. Yet I just read a thread on arofanatics.com where 10 inches is recommended as the maximum.

Also, a few years ago, the old fellow running the shop where I buy my goldfish said they don't like more than 14 to 18 inches (we were discussing the big 4'x2'x2' display tank he had in his shop and why he was going to take it away). I respect his opinion and experience as he's the probably the only real expert on goldfish I've ever spoken to in person, but I haven't been able to find any scientific information to back it up, either in books or on the internet. In fact, I find many differing opinions about depth!

My question is because my Ryukins are getting large, and I want to give them at least 100 to 130 litres each of water so they keep growing healthily. To do this in the limited space I have, I can't go sideways by getting longer tanks, so I need to go up by getting deeper and higher tanks to give them more water volume. They're currently averaging about 40 litres each in the various smaller tanks they're in now, which is not nearly enough now they're reaching 4 to 5 inches or more in height (belly to back). It's too much work for me just to keep the water quality under control and there's no margin for error if I get lazy about it.

So I'd like to move three ryukins into my 4'x2'x2' tank (400 litres) which is currently a planted tank, to give them 130 litres each. Actually, the exact same size tank as the one the old fellow got rid of for being too deep! So I'm unsure if it's the right thing to do. I assume the pressure would be slightly more than a same-length 4' tank only 19 inches high and 14 inches deep, but would that be enough to make a difference? Does anyone know, or can point me in the right direction to find out? Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

For your reference, here is an example of my situation. This is my largest when I first bought it in January this year, and then later this year. Also, a recent video if you're interested. I'd like to watch them grow even more, and not lose them in the process, so 40 litres per fish is not enough. I/they need more water. But how, if it's not a good idea to go deeper? Or is it?

IPB Image

IPB Image
desireless
Your topic has been merged with this old discussion.

Note that the reason why water height is important is due to the pressure the fish experiences. I have seen large ryukins/ranchus being housed in pond as deep as 1 metre plus.

For smaller ones it is better to keep them in 1 to 1.5 feet water
CP
QUOTE(awrieger @ Sat, 28 Oct 2006 1:39 am) *

So I'd like to move three ryukins into my 4'x2'x2' tank (400 litres) which is currently a planted tank, to give them 130 litres each. Actually, the exact same size tank as the one the old fellow got rid of for being too deep! So I'm unsure if it's the right thing to do.


No problems housing these ryukins in 2ft depth water.In fact, very large ryukins actually needs deeper water.

I used to have large ryukins, and during water change,as the water level decreases during siphoning, these ryukins actually topple over when the water gets too shallow.
awrieger
Apologies for starting a new thread, Desireless. I did a search for 'depth' and this thread didn't come up.

I've done some quick research and calculations about water pressure in different sized tanks;
QUOTE
Pounds per square inch = Weight in lbs / Area in square inches
(a cubic foot of water weighs 62.5 pounds)
NB. For purposes of discusion, dimensions are length x height x width

------------------
So, for a 4' x 2' x 2' tank:
volume in cubic feet of 4' x 2' x 2' = 16 cubic feet
16 x 62.5 pounds per cubic foot = 1000 pounds

area of the bottom of the tank in square inches, 48" x 24" = 1152 sq inches
Pressure at the bottom, 2' down = 1000 / 1152 = 0.86psi
Pressure exactly mid-tank, 1' down = 0.43psi
Pressure 6 inches from surface = 0.215psi

The pressure is literally 50% at 50% of the height, and so on. So a tank the same length and width but half the height has half the pressure, etc.

------------------
The same length and height but 50% width at 4' x 2' x 1' = 0.86psi.
100% the 4x2x2 pressure.

------------------
The same height, but 50% both length and width at 2' x 2' x 1' = 0.86psi.
100% the 4x2x2 pressure.

------------------
The same length, but 50% both height and width at 4' x 1' x 1' = 0.43psi.
50% the 4x2x2 pressure.

------------------
50% of all three dimensions at 2' x 1' x 1' = 0.43psi.
50% the 4x2x2 pressure.


CONCLUSION:

Roughly, the only thing that makes a difference in water pressure is height. Length and width make no difference. So a 2' high 120 litre tank has the same water pressure as 2' deep 120,000 litre pond.

6" deep is 0.215 psi
1' deep is 0.43 psi
2' deep is 0.86 psi
3' deep is 1.30 psi
4' deep is 1.74 psi

So the approximate simple rule is the pressure is a multiple of the height/depth. eg, 2 foot deep is double the pressure of 1 foot deep, 3 foot is double the pressure of 1.5 foot, etc, etc.

So moving a fish from 18" to 24" as I plan to do is a 33% increase in pressure. So I tend to agree with you both that small enough change should be okay, so I'm going to do it.

But the question remains - what is the maximum ideal pressure for goldfish? 0.75 psi? 1.0 psi? A fish may cope with it, but is it healthy and ideal?

A fish can adjust it's buoyancy via its swim bladder to equal the water pressure, but at what point does the pressure overwork the swimbladder and is unhealthy for the fish? Especially if swimming from the top to feeding at the bottom of the tank where the pressure is greatest? Is it dependent on the fish's size? A shallow fry raising tank compared to an adult's deeper tank? Or even the breed of goldfish requires different? I see Tiku breeders in Malaysia keep the water at only 10" deep in their ponds, whereas it's mentioned before in this thread Chinese farmers have 3' deep ponds.
gohks
It's generally true that depth of water play a part in swimmig well being of Ryukin. I have Ryukin that overturn in deep water but recovered when change to shallow one.
Not sure you will get an answer if you go too scientific. I follow the general rule of thumb since size of fish also play a part. I use the max 1:4 ratio rule, that's taking into consideration the height of fish minus the fins, the max water height you can have is 4x. smile.gif)
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