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GA Secretary
Hi everbody,

Just bought my first panda (demekin with a butterfly tails.)

Feel free to comment cos I'm new to this type of fish.

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chanB
shiok.gif very beautiful, what's the price$? Where did you find it?

Chan
Frankie
beauty...where a legend begins

rgds,
Frankie
looks more like a sideview demekin

interesting coloration, but it will change as time pass

could you provide a side-view shot of the fish?
Frankie
Eyes - good balance, well spaced, and positioned

Body shape - just nice. Patches of red should not be on a real Panda. This is a tri-colour demekin!

Tails - A so-so butterfly tails (but can't make it as as side-view tails at all.) The split is okay but ideally tear a little more towards the tail joint. The structure of the tails is structurely unsound overall especially at the tip which are already folding down. At this stage, it may be very difficult to repair this defect. Just make sure it doesn't deteriorate further. Keeping it in good water will also help the rim of the tails to smoothen up. Feed lots of bloodworms!

Not a bad 1st catch!
GA Secretary
I bought this 4inch fish at Pasir Ris for $20
Yeah, the two ends of the tail are folded.
Will try to take side pic soon.
Thanks for the comments.
Frankie
1st a correction. It's a Tri-Color butterfly tail Dragon Eyes (demekin)

Feature:
Eyes - balance. Too small for a dragon eyes
Body - not bad.
Tail - weak structure. Penduncle a bit small to hold the tail. Got to see how you keep this fish and build up the overall feature. Worms worms worms.

Personally, have a feeling that the tail close in slightly when swimming. Overall feature on the tail does indicate that. Anyway, still a reasonable catch. For that price, around 4" fish ?
Frankie
QUOTE(Secretary @ Tue 08 Jun 2004 10:58 PM)
I bought this 4inch fish at Pasir Ris for $20

Is the measurement of 4 inches from tip of mouth to end of tails? If so, it's way too expensive! For such a size, it should costs no more than $8.50 max! mad.gif I hope the demekin market won't be spoilt like the ranchu market has.

Looking forward to see its sideview.
Frankie
QUOTE(Frankie @ Wed 09 Jun 2004 07:45 AM)
Is the measurement of 4 inches from tip of mouth to end of tails?  If so, it's way too expensive!  For such a size, it should costs no more than $8.50 max!  mad.gif  I hope the demekin market won't be spoilt like the ranchu market has.

Looking forward to see its sideview.

Correct. Dragon eyes price seldom go beyond $25 for a small 4" one. Should be around $12 max. For dragon eyes, measurement is mouth to tail tip.
GA Secretary
The size 4.5inches to be exact.
I thought it was cheap cost I compare the price to ranchu.
What other goldfish can be kept as topview besides Runchu.
Cos I find TV ranchu very ex and nice one hard to find and lagi ex.

Does Demekin feed on worms only? Can recomment any pallets.
Thanks.
Frankie
You think $20 is cheap? You think wrong. biggrin.gif Demekin is one of the goldfish not yet exploited by overwhelming demand. Let's try to keep it that way.

There're also Tosakin, Pearlscales (great for both top and side viewing), Bubble-eyes, Celestial Eyes, Butterfly Ryukin etc. Except for the 1st, the rest are all inexpensive compared to ranchu.

Demekin like other goldfish takes anything you feed it (I know one that even smokes and types on the keyboard.) Bloodworm is said to help them develop stronger bones to support the butterfly tails.

Hope that helps.
Frankie
QUOTE(Secretary @ Thu 10 Jun 2004 07:42 AM)
The size 4.5inches to be exact.
I thought it was cheap cost I compare the price to ranchu.
What other goldfish can be kept as topview besides Runchu.
Cos I find TV ranchu very ex and nice one hard to find and lagi ex.

Does Demekin feed on worms only? Can recomment any pallets.
Thanks.

I believe that the seller labelled it as a panda or told you so. In China, a panda is always higher priced as compare to other color. Some good specimens are over several thousands and much more expensive than any ranchu. Mainly due to the coloration.

Dragon eyes requires a lot of worms. Also larger space and extremely clean and highly oxygenated water. Also Panda coloration is unstable, so be prepare to spend time and effort to maintain the color.

As for food, any types and NO special color enhancing food.

The other varieties that are kept as top view are celestial, bubble eyes, toad eyes, tosakin, jikin. Newer varieties are butterfly ryukin. In Japan, there is an annual goldfish competition are judged in top view even for other varieties.
GA Secretary
Here are the sideview pic.
Now look like a tri-colour hor,
I did not know the tummy is orange unit just now.
Cos I've been keeping him in a toyogo tub.

I think I will stop buying ranchu n keep other
goldfish that are cheap n nice leow. tongue.gif

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CyberET
QUOTE(Frankie @ Thu 10 Jun 2004 07:28 PM)
Here are the sideview pic.
Now look like a tri-colour hor,
I did not know the tummy is orange unit just now.
Cos I've been keeping him in a toyogo tub.

I think I will stop buying ranchu n keep other
goldfish that are cheap n nice leow. tongue.gif

imho, it looks so much better sideview, than from the top smile.gif
Frankie
Grin. That's not a butterfly tails. That's just a normal droppy sideview tails. I believe, as no one wants to confirm it for me, that the anal fins are fully exposed when viewed from the side for a butterfly.
CyberET
QUOTE(Frankie @ Thu 10 Jun 2004 08:13 PM)
Grin. That's not a butterfly tails.  That's just a normal droppy sideview tails.  I believe, as no one wants to confirm it for me, that the anal fins are fully exposed when viewed from the side for a butterfly.

what is a butterfly, and what is a sideview demekin?

Butterfly tail does not mean that it MUST be view from the top, there are side view as well. Which is how the traditional butterfly tail was developed.

This is a traditional butterfly tail dragon eyes!! Except that quality is not of high standard. It is in recent years that the tail got appreciated from the top by a few pioneers as compare to over several decades since the butterfly tail developed.
Frankie
QUOTE(CyberET @ Thu 10 Jun 2004 08:36 PM)
what is a butterfly, and what is a sideview demekin?

Butterfly tail does not mean that it MUST be view from the top, there are side view as well. Which is how the traditional butterfly tail was developed.

Can I see an example of non-butterfly sideview demekin tails? Thanks.
Frankie
QUOTE(Frankie @ Sat 12 Jun 2004 10:58 AM)
Can I see an example of non-butterfly sideview demekin tails?  Thanks.

U very sure u talking about demekin, AKA dragon eyes AKA telescopic eyes AKA globe eyes AKA .... ??? Demekin is a term from Japan which is "protruding eyes". If you really talking about top view dragon eyes, then it's a new "kid" on the block whereby it is still appreciated privately by a few groups of people just a couple of years ago. Yet to even hit the mainstream.

Tail is tail, so you have to understand that butterfly tail is only one of the variety among the dragon eyes family. There are the traditional fan tail, 4 lopes, short tail, long tail, veil tail, butterfly tail.

Spend some time to understand various varieties in dragon eyes categories, maybe a good start here ...

http://rafflesgold.dyndns.org/~rg/champion/index.html

And there are a lot of pics in the web if you just search. It would be nice if this board got more people appreciating dragon eyes or other varieties as compare to the dominating ranchu in almost all other forums.
Frankie
I didn't know Butterfly Demekin is "new" and appreciated privately (I wonder what does that means?)

I'll look up the different kinds of tails. Funny I thought there are only two kinds - the good and the bad. Ha ha.

Anyway, here's are two sites with photos of butterfly demekins:-

http://www.goldfishsociety.org/butterfly_demekin_photos.html

http://www.geocities.com/goldfishsg2000/

The 2nd has a lot of photos but the site is nearly always down because of excessive bandwidth usuage. Catch it at early hours of the day if you can.

Cheers.
Frankie
maybe we can shift this discussion away from this thread? is getting off topic.

simply put, demekin refers to the eyes. nothing to do with tail. butterfly tail refers to the tail, nothing do with the eyes smile.gif
Frankie
Oh please don't stop. I think it's good we continue here.

Demekin (jp)
dragon eyes (asia)
moor (? - strictly speaking refering to the BLACK variety with spherical eyes)
globe eyes (uk)
telescopic eyes (us)

No matter what is the name it's the same fish with slight differences much like a thai ranchu would look different from a chinese ranchu. They all have "truncated cone" shaped eyes vs the spherical eyes of a moor but then over the years spherical eyes are not uncommon.

QUOTE(Frankie @ Sun 13 Jun 2004 05:33 PM)

Thanks for the second link. I finally found out who owns those butterflies as I've been looking at another web site with the same photos but no owner's name (or other info as a matter of fact) except lots of photos of beautiful butterflies. It's at http://demekin.mysitespace.com
Frankie
QUOTE(Frankie @ Tue 15 Jun 2004 08:24 AM)
Oh please don't stop.  I think it's good we continue here.

Demekin (jp)
dragon eyes (asia)
moor (? - strictly speaking refering to the BLACK variety with spherical eyes)
globe eyes (uk)
telescopic eyes (us)

No matter what is the name it's the same fish with slight differences much like a thai ranchu would look different from a chinese ranchu.  They all have "truncated cone" shaped eyes vs the spherical eyes of a moor but then over the years spherical eyes are not uncommon.


Thanks for the second link.  I finally found out who owns those butterflies as I've been looking at another web site with the same photos but no owner's name (or other info as a matter of fact) except lots of photos of beautiful butterflies.  It's at http://demekin.mysitespace.com

i'm not so sure what "demekin " actually means. but the rest of the terms refers to the eyes only.

as to how the shape of the protruding eyes look, it will be due to the different lines of fish.

in a way, i think the confusion stem from the common usuage of "butterfly" to refer to the butterfly-tail dragon-eyes. there are also the butterfly ryukin, dragon-eye crowned pearlscale, short-tail dragon-eye etc.
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