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HappyBuddha
A quickie post...

I change 100% of my tank water this morning.

Late in the afternoon I noticed one of the fish is resting on the tank floor. I ignore.

Just now I saw another one doing the same thing.

Started to pay attention.

Both fishes' pelvic fins are clamped shut. ohmy.gif

Panic. Checked Ingrid's site... found out it's either high ammonia or high nitrite.

Fxxk, a quick glance at the AmmoniaAlert meter showed it's at "Alarm".

*&^%$#@!

Dashed out to the storeroom to look at the AA meter in the other tank I also changed water today. Also at Alarm with 1 fish's pelvic fins clamped shut.

How come har?
The Matrix
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Fri 18 Jun 2004 07:10 PM)
I change 100% of my tank water this morning.

a quick glance at the AmmoniaAlert meter showed it's at "Alarm".

Dashed out to the storeroom to look at the AA meter in the other tank I also changed water today.  Also at Alarm with 1 fish's pelvic fins clamped shut.

How come har?

I give u a hint, check your filter.

1. anti-chlorine, change another brand and see
2. did u wash your filter so much that it kills off the essential bacteria ?
3. anti-chlorine first or last when u change water ?
4. do a test on your tap water tomorrow morning in a separate tub with your existing anti-chlorine. does it register high NH3 ?
HappyBuddha
sad.gif

1. I'm using hypo.
2. Grin. For once I didn't rinse out the sponge filters. I usually do.
3. I drop in the hypo before I fill up the tank with water directly from the tap.
4. I just did a test using the AA meter on my tap water; it's safe. But then the water early this morning may be different.

Frankly I don't think I did anything terribly unusual except for NOT rinsing out the sponge filters. The only oddity is the water was warmer then usual as it's a hot day.

If my BB colony was destroyed, I would have noticed the cloudy water but it remain crystal clear when I noticed the "ALERT" warning on the meter and even while I was siphoning away to refill the tank.

I saved a pail of the old water and did some tests (except for ammonia as I'm out of the liquid kit) and both nitrite and nitrate registered nil. The pH was a low 6.5 which I find kinda strange as I'm quite sure I dosed BS. By right it should hoovers around 8 for my setup.

For the 200 litres tank, the recommended dosage of hypo is 4 teaspoons but I overdosed by 2 more. That's what I've always been doing, ie, 1.5 times the recommended dosage.

I'm still scratching my head over what happened?
The Matrix
6.5 ??? hahahaha ... did u check your buffering ?
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(The Matrix @ Fri 18 Jun 2004 09:34 PM)
6.5 ??? hahahaha ... did u check your buffering ?

I hunted around for an answer... and found it in a secret tub. wink.gif

First, I must confess something. Although I did change water pretty much the way I always have, this time I have actually stretched the interval by 3 days.

So?

Whenever I change water, I would dose enough BS to up the kH to 4dKH. But, I never tested the pH during the course of the week. The BS may be depleting slowly.... but it was enough to last a week. However, this time I stretched it to 10 days. Who knows, the pH may have fallen so low BB were dormant. The low low pH also converted ammonia to harmless ammonium. So when I change water today (plus dosing BS), I actually raised the pH and the ammonium left in my sponge (which I didn't rinse, remember?) turned into deadly ammonia!

Tio boh?
The Matrix
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Fri 18 Jun 2004 09:55 PM)
and found it in a secret tub.  wink.gif

Who knows, the pH may have fallen so low BB were dormant.  The low low pH also converted ammonia to harmless ammonium.  So when I change water today (plus dosing BS), I actually raised the pH and the ammonium left in my sponge (which I didn't rinse, remember?) turned into deadly ammonia!

Tio boh?

Secret Tub well trained mah. Not so easy to be in the Matrix u know ?

Anyway, partially tio. Must always keep in mind, to allow a good filter to work properly, never never have your pH drop near that level.
HappyBuddha
A follow-up.

I tracked my pH and kH over the course of a week.

Day 0 and Day 1, pH=8.5 kH=4
Day 2, pH=8.0 kH=4
Day 3, pH=8.0, kH=3
Day 4, pH=7.5, kH=2
Day 5, pH=7.5, kH=1
Day 6, pH=7.5, kH=1
Day 7, pH=7.5, kH=0

The above are not taken scientifically but ramdomly in the afternoon hours, and after I have thoroughly cleaned my sponges but it's quite clear my kH was delepting on a daily basis!

No wonder ET has a Phoon Huat VIP card for buying so much Baking Soda!! I never knew I have to redose BS between water change.

Frankly the above seems fine (in a sense). But if your filter is very matured and has over time accumulated a large colony of BB, a decline of pH to a low level and the BB will become dormant... then when you change water and up the pH, the relatively safe ammonium turns into deadly ammonia quickly; the AmmoniaAlert meter goes off the roof and your fishes hate you. biggrin.gif
The Matrix
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Mon 28 Jun 2004 06:57 AM)
Day 0 and Day 1, pH=8.5 kH=4
Day 2, pH=8.0 kH=4
Day 3, pH=8.0, kH=3
Day 4, pH=7.5, kH=2
Day 5, pH=7.5, kH=1
Day 6, pH=7.5, kH=1
Day 7, pH=7.5, kH=0

HB, if you dun mind, can provide how big the tank, how many fish, food, feeding frequency and light period.

1kH drop a day is not something I like to see.
HappyBuddha
I took the sample from my 220 litres main tank:-

http://rafflesgold.dyndns.org/~rg/images/0406/DSCN9381.jpg

There're four fishes between 3 1/2 inches to 5 1/2 inches in size.

6 times a day, 3 clicks opening on the auto-feeder

A 2 ft 11 watts FL lamp that I turn on at night if I need to check something otherwise the tank is not lit at all. smile.gif

4 guppy sponge filters (stacked as two towers.) The IOS, on the other hand, has been filled with nothing but sponge, ie, no ceramic/sinster glass materal.

Some taiwanese bamboo....

The drop in kH also surprised me... but it isn't 1kH per day but accelarated near the end. My sponges may be too efficient...
greenhorn
Do you put big coral chips? In this case, I assume is No. I think is wise to put some in, in case your KH keep droping without you knowledge. Once used up, the PH will drops.
greenhorn
Salt can also act as a buffer.
mountain
did u top up with fresh water supply??
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(mountain @ Mon 28 Jun 2004 01:03 PM)
did u top up with fresh water supply??

Yes, once a week, with a small pail worth (probably about 10 litres). Or else... the "Dry" section of my IOS will be half-full and noisy because of the water-fall effect from the over-flow. laugh.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(greenhorn @ Mon 28 Jun 2004 11:13 AM)
Salt can also act as a buffer.

Probably not a good ideal. Prolong exposure... blablabla.

Beside, I think BS is cheaper then salt.
chrisamos
check your fish, maybe one of your fish give out a lot of slime.
salt cannot act as buffer
mountain
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Mon 28 Jun 2004 02:14 PM)
Yes, once a week, with a small pail worth (probably about 10 litres).  Or else... the "Dry" section of my IOS will be half-full and noisy because of the water-fall effect from the over-flow.  laugh.gif

hmnm .. i do small top-ups once every 2 days .. so i would pop a bit of BS into the tank .. but i guess these top ups we do should be fairly insignificant as your data shows continous drop of KH.
The Matrix
QUOTE(mountain @ Mon 28 Jun 2004 06:09 PM)
hmnm .. i do small top-ups once every 2 days .. so i would pop a bit of BS into the tank  .. but i guess these top ups we do should be fairly insignificant as your data shows continous drop of KH.

Every tank, every setup is different. Do your own to understand your setup.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(mountain @ Mon 28 Jun 2004 06:09 PM)
hmnm .. i do small top-ups once every 2 days .. so i would pop a bit of BS into the tank  .. but i guess these top ups we do should be fairly insignificant as your data shows continous drop of KH.

I think this problem is more serious then many of us thought. It is of course more so for a matured bio-filter. I can think of at least 2 other bros experiencing the same thing in prior occassions involving OHF.

My suggestion is do a thorough clean up of your bio-media at least once every 2 months....
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