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Bud_(",)
comments pls...
is anythin wrong or needs to be improve?? smile.gif

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square_guy
nice setup.

different ppl will have different ways of doing things. as long as you can maintain the water quality, anything goes. of course the effort level will be different.

AFAIK, OHF tends to have higher current. if you really want, try to diffuse the return water.
Bud_(",)
QUOTE(square_guy @ Sat 19 Jun 2004 04:48 PM)
nice setup.

different ppl will have different ways of doing things. as long as you can maintain the water quality, anything goes. of course the effort level will be different.

AFAIK, OHF tends to have higher current. if you really want, try to diffuse the return water.

hmmm... wat can i do to diffuse e return water??
but diffusing e return water means less aeration rite??
mountain
you should not just depend on a OHF outlet for aeration. I would suggest getting another Air-pump , in the event your OHF fail, you would still have an air-stone to aerate your water
Bud_(",)
QUOTE(mountain @ Sat 19 Jun 2004 10:19 PM)
you should not just depend on a OHF outlet for aeration. I would suggest getting another Air-pump , in the event  your OHF fail, you would still have an air-stone to aerate your water

yeah, wat a good idea, at e same time can pull water into e gravels
thus, e gravels act as a filter medium wink.gif

thank u very much good_very.gif
white horse T1
QUOTE(Bud_(" @ ),Sat 19 Jun 2004 02:16 PM)
comments pls...
is anythin wrong or needs to be improve??  smile.gif

User Posted Image

u may want to clear the gravel if u are rearing goldfish.

i clear my pebbles 10 kg alr. u will realise later that many poos and food get trapped underneath those gravels.
Bud_(",)
QUOTE(white horse T1 @ Sun 20 Jun 2004 11:19 AM)
u may want to clear the gravel if u are rearing goldfish.

i clear my pebbles 10 kg alr.  u will realise later that many poos and food get trapped underneath those gravels.

i experienced same situations b4 until i went to Green World Aquarium at Jurong West which have a goldfish display tank wid gravels...

Enchanted by e sight, i ask if there r poos underneath,
the owner's bro said tat there is no poos unless its freshly release by e fishes...
he stirred e gravel wid a stick.... den wat!!! no poos!!! shiok.gif n yah, he even told me e tank is displayed for 3 months happydance.gif

oops, no time to type liao, im late, meeting goldfish(galfren), continue tonite... smile.gif
Bud_(",)
n 1 more thing bro... pebbles have lesser capacity of bacteria while gravels have more... (more gravel= more space to cultivate bacteria) smile.gif
nobnoba
u mean 3 months without maintenance, such as water exchange?
Bud_(",)
QUOTE(nobnoba @ Mon 21 Jun 2004 12:01 AM)
u mean 3 months without maintenance, such as water exchange?

no, it have been displayed for 3 months plus...

water changes is 25% every 7-10 days

he uses bacteria, told mi to support him as i told him i intend to get two 3 ft tanks at e end of e month, n something to do with e filter medium... chicken, cunning sales tactic... have not know in details about how he does it... cos din buy from him yet

i tried using GEO liquid n PSB nitro bacter, seems to be fine... dun see any poo every morning... smile.gif

used to change water every 2-3 days, but now 1 week also no problem... no fish getting sick n 1 TBJ crown pearl whose black faded starts to restore after e 1st day happydance.gif

currently still satisfied with my tank... hehe
square_guy
dude, did you base you water change interval on your water parameters?
Bud_(",)
QUOTE(square_guy @ Mon 21 Jun 2004 04:16 PM)
dude, did you base you water change interval on your water parameters?

im not sure, i always change 25-30% percent of e water on normal occasions
square_guy
haha, then "no problem" is a very subjective term then.... u gotta check your water parameter to be sure you are changing enough.

hope u know the inherent problems of using gravel.
Bud_(",)
QUOTE(square_guy @ Mon 21 Jun 2004 05:50 PM)
haha, then "no problem" is a very subjective term then.... u gotta check your water parameter to be sure you are changing enough.

hope u know the inherent problems of using gravel.

hmmm... thanks wink.gif

but maybe u can highlight to me e problems jus in case i do not know as much as u do blush.gif
Seacucumber
dun think there's enough aeration just from the OHF.
seriously ask you to remove the gravels.
yes....BB will more or less thrive in gravel...BUT so do other harmful bacteria....

if you wanna keep your gravels, you have to be extra diligent in water change....
and 25-30% change is definately no enough....unless you feed your fish teeny weeny bits of food once a day, which i doubt so......heehehehe...
square_guy
gee, u r quite gungho to go into gravel without knowing the shortcomings!

like g-string said, bad bacteria could thrive there. If the gravel layer is deep enough and anerobic region develop, anerobic bacteria (in the presence of carbon source) could produce hydrogen sulfide gas. This gas, when released into the water, is extremely toxic to fishes. Thus it is recommended to clean the gravel frequently to clear away such anerobic region and waste.

that's why I said it can still work but need more effort.
Bud_(",)
QUOTE(g-string @ Tue 22 Jun 2004 07:58 AM)
dun think there's enough aeration just from the OHF.
seriously ask you to remove the gravels.
yes....BB will more or less thrive in gravel...BUT so do other harmful bacteria....

if you wanna keep your gravels, you have to be extra diligent in water change....
and 25-30% change is definately no enough....unless you feed your fish teeny weeny bits of food once a day, which i doubt so......heehehehe...

gee, u r quite gungho to go into gravel without knowing the shortcomings!

like g-string said, bad bacteria could thrive there. If the gravel layer is deep enough and anerobic region develop, anerobic bacteria (in the presence of carbon source) could produce hydrogen sulfide gas. This gas, when released into the water, is extremely toxic to fishes. Thus it is recommended to clean the gravel frequently to clear away such anerobic region and waste.

that's why I said it can still work but need more effort.

i see.... i read on an acticle on anerobic b4, but tot it only turns unused nitrate back to ammonia, din noe it can do so much harm...

but since i already started, den might as well i be e guinea pig lor...
see how it goes lor... try to reduce e nitrate level see how, but anyway nothing has happen yet... thanks alot g-string n square_guy good_very.gif
square_guy
way to go! goldfish in a gravel tank looks wonderful, just that I am too lazy to maintain it biggrin.gif
CyberET
think the gravel need to put more for it to be effective unsure.gif
HappyBuddha
I think I'll put lots of marble balls instead. At least they'll catch my grandchildren's short attention span.

What? Marble balls are not found in goldfish's natural environment?

Can find goldfish in nature meh? unsure.gif

Hence, marble ball is fine.

So are some broken beer bottles.... or even... your old handphones (just take out the battery)...

My point is... what's so great about gravel if it does more harm then esthetic?
Bud_(",)
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Tue 22 Jun 2004 04:39 PM)
I think I'll put lots of marble balls instead.  At least they'll catch my grandchildren's short attention span.

What?  Marble balls are not found in goldfish's natural environment?

Can find goldfish in nature meh?  unsure.gif

Hence, marble ball is fine.

So are some broken beer bottles.... or even... your old handphones (just take out the battery)...

My point is... what's so great about gravel if it does more harm then esthetic?

i dun tink i get wat u meant, neither do i wish to misinterpret either...

Do u mean there is no point in tryin wat ppl dun do or dun try as not to experience it, or should i jus heed advice blindly??
Seacucumber
hehehe.....HB doesn't mean that.
relax....

you can try, but dun try with expensive or precious fishes.....

this might be a good chance for you and everyone reading this thread in RG to know how much waste goldfish actually generates....heehee biggrin.gif

you might want to post a pic just before water change.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(Bud_(" @ ),Wed 23 Jun 2004 12:25 AM)
i dun tink i get wat u meant, neither do i wish to misinterpret either...

Do u mean there is no point in tryin wat ppl dun do or dun try as not to experience it, or should i jus heed advice blindly??

My point is gravel isn't nice in a goldfish tank. They look great (and a must) in a planted tank but as silly as decorating a goldfish tank with a bed of used handphones. The gravel bed doesn't even do the job of providing bio filtration well (unlike in a planted tank) as goldfish discharge too high a waste load. Ask the uncle at the LFS if he feed as much as you do or at all his goldfish in that tank.

Sometimes it's good to take advises as it is; why experience burning your palm by dipping it into boiling water when you were already told it will hurt right? sad.gif

Feel free to start a poll (by clicking on IPB Image near the top of your screen) to find out how many bros has gravels in his goldfish tank. I could only think of bro Caster.
The Matrix
QUOTE(Bud_(" @ ),Wed 23 Jun 2004 12:25 AM)
i dun tink i get wat u meant, neither do i wish to misinterpret either...

Do u mean there is no point in tryin wat ppl dun do or dun try as not to experience it, or should i jus heed advice blindly??

Aesthetic or practical ?

Be it gravel or any other base decorative, as long as the keeper maintain it well, anything goes.

Most of the experience hobbyists understood that goldfish is one dirty fellow and keeping a bare tank already quite a challenge. Addition of substrate increases the workload drastically. They would advice against it for many other reasons. If one insists of the beauty of the tank setup, so be it.

Experience comes with a price.
Bud_(",)
well... thanks for e concerns... but im willing to try la, maybe jus keep u guys update, as long as my fish dun die.... well, i also agree tat experience comes with a price... my dad kept fishes since im young, 7 tanks of different fishes b4 i shifted here, n personally have kept ranchu once but died within a month( 6-8 years back)... tis time round for i only have one casualty, died mysteriously, should be internal bac... all fishes so far only sick but din die... tongue.gif tis time round i actually started off usin pebbles for 1 month plus, clear pebbles as is dirty den clear tank for ard 2 months b4 decided to use gravels... short period of time compared to bros here who maybe kept GFs for years, but still my family have kept fishes ever since im pri. 1( includin GFs) dun worry guys, i have confidence in maintainin e tank... take care n thanks wink.gif
mountain
Hi Bud, do enjoy the hobby and always come in and share information. such as tank updates or your fish updates, or what u have discovered. if we dun share, we dun learn. Its a hobby, enjoy what u are doing.
Seacucumber
QUOTE(Bud_(" @ ),Wed 23 Jun 2004 01:33 PM)
well... thanks for e concerns... but im willing to try la, maybe jus keep u guys update, as long as my fish dun die.... well, i also agree tat experience comes with a price... my dad kept fishes since im young, 7 tanks of different fishes b4 i shifted here, n personally have kept ranchu once but died within a month( 6-8 years back)... tis time round for i only have one casualty, died mysteriously, should be internal bac... all fishes so far only sick but din die...  tongue.gif  tis time round i actually started off usin pebbles for 1 month plus, clear pebbles as is dirty den clear tank for ard 2 months b4 decided to use gravels... short period of time compared to bros here who maybe kept GFs for years, but still my family have kept fishes ever since im pri. 1( includin GFs) dun worry guys, i have confidence in maintainin e tank... take care n thanks  wink.gif

hey bro Bud,
dun just try to keep your fish alive....must keep it beautifully....
provide them with good water quality and adequate food is a basic must....

a growing grade AAA fish in a sparsely stock tank is a million times better than a stunted showgrade fish in a cramped 2ft tank with unwashed gravels and lousy filtration....

erm....you get my point or not?? hehehehehe
white horse T1
QUOTE(g-string @ Wed 23 Jun 2004 05:28 PM)
hey bro Bud,
dun just try to keep your fish alive....must keep it beautifully....
provide them with good water quality and adequate food is a basic must....

a growing grade AAA fish in a sparsely stock tank is a million times better than a stunted showgrade fish in a cramped 2ft tank with unwashed gravels and lousy filtration....

erm....you get my point or not?? hehehehehe

what ...where....who talking to me again?..... laugh.gif
Bud_(",)
QUOTE(mountain @ Wed 23 Jun 2004 02:14 PM)
Hi Bud, do enjoy the hobby and always come in and share information. such as tank updates or your fish updates, or what u have discovered. if we dun share, we dun learn. Its a hobby, enjoy what u are doing.

haha.. no problems, we are all here to learn n share rite tongue.gif laugh.gif
still have lots to learn from u guys, im jus e type tat is stubborn n have to try n experience some stuff i dun believe in smile.gif
Bud_(",)
QUOTE(g-string @ Wed 23 Jun 2004 05:28 PM)
hey bro Bud,
dun just try to keep your fish alive....must keep it beautifully....
provide them with good water quality and adequate food is a basic must....

a growing grade AAA fish in a sparsely stock tank is a million times better than a stunted showgrade fish in a cramped 2ft tank with unwashed gravels and lousy filtration....

erm....you get my point or not?? hehehehehe

yes i do & absolutely agree wif wat u say!!!! good_very.gif
Seacucumber
QUOTE(white horse T1 @ Wed 23 Jun 2004 10:05 PM)
what ...where....who talking to me again?..... laugh.gif

wah....AH TAN! you got designer tank you know.....
hehehehehe.....
Bud_(",)
jus bought a moss kinda plant for my tank...

anyone knows if it will multiply??

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Seacucumber
dun think it will......but i am not sure...
this type normally people put in betta tanks....
hehehehe....
caster
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Wed 23 Jun 2004 09:54 AM)
Feel free to start a poll (by clicking on IPB Image near the top of your screen) to find out how many bros has gravels in his goldfish tank.  I could only think of bro Caster.

whahahaha.,.... I give up on gravel long ago liao... because too dirty and too troublesome to maintain.... Tried to use driftwood.... end results also.. fail... all the dirts get trap below...... the problem with goldfish is, it shit alot. If the poo, slime or dirt is not clean regularly (at least once a week) bacteria & parasite will strive. goldfish falls sick very easily....

So now all bare tank. with air stones only.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(caster @ Fri 25 Jun 2004 11:01 AM)
whahahaha.,.... I give up on gravel long ago liao... because too dirty and too troublesome to maintain.... Tried to use driftwood.... end results also.. fail... all the dirts get trap below...... the problem with goldfish is, it shit alot. If the poo, slime or dirt is not clean regularly (at least once a week) bacteria & parasite will strive. goldfish falls sick very easily....

So now all bare tank. with air stones only.

Kekeke. Just wanna embarass you a little.

I know you removed the gravel immediately or soon after learning their bad points.

Air-stones only? Daily water change ah? 三碗猪脚!

good_very.gif
Bud_(",)
UPDATES: some pics of new tank( transferred eveything from old tank to new one)

1st pic: on e day of setup 25/6/04, some may feel puzzle as y fishes r introduced on e day of a new setup... i used bacterias, anti-chlorine chloramine, geoliquid to make it possible

2nd pic: 30/6/04 notice tat bogwoods are introduced, fishes still healthy & increasing appetite

3rd pic: checking gravels during water change, its clean

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CyberET
don't be offended...

but.. i don't think u can see bad bacteria, or toxic gas build up with a naked eye..

and personally, i find bottled bacteria useless
Bud_(",)
QUOTE(CyberET @ Fri 02 Jul 2004 12:36 AM)
don't be offended...

but.. i don't think u can see bad bacteria, or toxic gas build up with a naked eye..

and personally, i find bottled bacteria useless

thanks ET, as i have mention, im willing to be e guinea pig, but of course with certain pertantage of not lossin my fishes... thanks ur concern smile.gif

and u mention bad bateria... may i noe some of their names... muz learn about them & experiment on how to tackle them shiok.gif
CyberET
you could start from Anaerobic Bacteria smile.gif
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(Bud_(" @ ),Fri 25 Jun 2004 03:33 AM)
jus bought a moss kinda plant for my tank...

anyone knows if it will multiply??

User Posted Image

That looks like a Marimo.

It takes forever to grow.

http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=232
square_guy
hi bud,

QUOTE(Bud_(") @ Fri 02 Jul 2004 12:25 AM)
1st pic: on e day of setup 25/6/04, some may feel puzzle as y fishes r introduced on e day of a new setup... i used bacterias, anti-chlorine chloramine, geoliquid to make it possible


nothing to be puzzled about. without fish, there will be no cycling of filter. Nothing to do with whatever bacteria addictive. geoliquid is just another water conditioner.

QUOTE(Bud_(") @ Fri 02 Jul 2004 12:25 AM)
2nd pic: 30/6/04 notice tat bogwoods are introduced, fishes still healthy & increasing appetite


bogwoods tend to give out organic acid. remember to buffer the water well. Given your huge initial stocking level and if you are feeding regularly in an uncycled tank, your ammonia level will shoot up very fast. Do take note of it, or feed very little till the filter has cycled. Fish will still eat, until a catastrophic spike in ammonia occur.
Bud_(",)
QUOTE(CyberET @ Fri 02 Jul 2004 02:18 AM)
you could start from Anaerobic Bacteria smile.gif

hmmm... ok i'll try to learn/study/go in depth smile.gif

anyway e bacteria i use to get e tank started contains not onli anaerobic but aerobic as well... well, not actually to getr it started but to maintain water parameters in satisfacotry condition til all bacterias fully mature... n from basic knowledge tat i noe about anaerobic is tat it converts nitrate to nitrogen gas until i saw square_guy's post on producing harmful gas when carbon is present smile.gif
Bud_(",)
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Fri 02 Jul 2004 08:17 AM)
That looks like a Marimo.

It takes forever to grow.

http://www.rafflesgold.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=232

thanks for e info smile.gif

haiz, i bought mine at $5 mad.gif nvm la, lucky i onli bought 1... smile.gif
Bud_(",)
QUOTE(square_guy @ Fri 02 Jul 2004 08:55 AM)
hi bud,



nothing to be puzzled about. without fish, there will be no cycling of filter. Nothing to do with whatever bacteria addictive. geoliquid is just another water conditioner.



bogwoods tend to give out organic acid. remember to buffer the water well. Given your huge initial stocking level and if you are feeding regularly in an uncycled tank, your ammonia level will shoot up very fast. Do take note of it, or feed very little till the filter has cycled. Fish will still eat, until a catastrophic spike in ammonia occur.

pai seh ah, maybe wat i type may be misleading... wat i meant is actually to add e bateria to maintain water parameters in satisfactory conditons as e setup is new so no bacterias yet n also bcos e brand of bateria i use converts toxic ammonia to nitrite, nitrite to nitrate, nitrate to nitrogen gas as stated on e box n as recommended by e shop assistant smile.gif

regarding organic acid... wat i read on bogwoods b4 is tat tannins leach out from e bogwood, thus, e water will be yellow, brown giving it the colour of weak tea, n tannic acid is also present... is there any other acids tat might be produced?? i used salt to bring up e PH n use coral chips to maintain it smile.gif

still have to thank u for taking e trouble to post n share... pls continue to share ur knowledge.. thanks(EVERYONE) i appreciate it alot!! good_very.gif
Bud_(",)
n guys, i intend to get lily for my tank, is it suitable??
top_view_ranchu
Hi Bud,
Why not try water Lettuce!
Bud_(",)
QUOTE(top_view_ranchu @ Sat 03 Jul 2004 02:11 AM)
Hi Bud,
Why not try water Lettuce!

Hi top_view_ranchu,
water lettuce... hmmm... is it floating type?? long roots n slime on it??
top_view_ranchu
I think that is water hycinth.
Lettuce is like a rose with short roots. Not slimmy, but floating.
Bud_(",)
QUOTE(top_view_ranchu @ Sat 03 Jul 2004 02:32 AM)
I think that is water hycinth.
Lettuce is like a rose with short roots. Not slimmy, but floating.

do u have any pics or URL containin pics of water lettuce??

does it look something like this??

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CyberET
use sodium bicarbonate to raise and stabilize the pH instead of salt
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