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HappyBuddha
QUOTE(mountain @ Wed 23 Jun 2004 08:47 AM)
... if u dun have spare tanks, try partitioning lor.

I sometimes wonder what is the effect on a goldfish if it is house in a large tub but kept inside a small floating basket such that it can't move much yet the water quality is always excellent.

Would it continue to grow although it doesn't get to "exercise", or would only certain parts of the goldfish, such as the tails only, or the body only, continue to get larger and go out of proportion?

Anyone knows?
CyberET
obese fish, fat but not stout, hehehe...
like your pui pui ranchus rofl.gif
jhansolo
I remember in my first Live meet, Alvin gave us a quiz. Two fish in the same pond, one free to swim in the pond another in a floating basket which will grow bigger. The answer is the growth is the same.
HappyBuddha
QUOTE(jhansolo @ Wed 23 Jun 2004 11:26 AM)
I remember in my first Live meet, Alvin gave us a quiz.  Two fish in the same pond, one free to swim in the pond another in a floating basket which will grow bigger.  The answer is the growth is the same.

Damn.

I was hoping it could somehow make the fish's tails different... maybe for a butterfly tails becomes stronger since it needed to work less hard but free to develope nicely. sad.gif

Oh well, I guess that's why no body keeps their goldfish in a partitioned tank. biggrin.gif
The Matrix
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Wed 23 Jun 2004 12:11 PM)
I was hoping it could somehow make the fish's tails different... maybe for a butterfly tails becomes stronger since it needed to work less hard but free to develope nicely.  sad.gif

try harder .... rolleyes.gif
HappyBuddha
surgically implant an aluminium stick to stretch and press down the tail joints.... can? biggrin.gif
Seacucumber
use Gatsby wax??
LASERGUY
Use Tongkah Ali ???
nobnoba
QUOTE(jhansolo @ Wed 23 Jun 2004 10:26 AM)
I remember in my first Live meet, Alvin gave us a quiz.  Two fish in the same pond, one free to swim in the pond another in a floating basket which will grow bigger.  The answer is the growth is the same.

If u say that the growth is the same, then SPACE is not a factor in the growth of a goldfish??? keep it in a 20 gallon tank with excellent water parameters and the fish will have the same size as the fish living in a big pond?

personally, i doubt that statement.
mountain
QUOTE(nobnoba @ Thu 24 Jun 2004 12:29 AM)
If u say that the growth is the same, then SPACE is not a factor in the growth of a goldfish??? keep it in a 20 gallon tank with excellent water parameters and the fish will have the same size as the fish living in a big pond?

personally, i doubt that statement.

hmm .. think u got the equation slightly wrong, the point of the quiz is the growth RATIO between the 2 fish, not how much it can grow smile.gif
jhansolo
QUOTE(nobnoba @ Thu 24 Jun 2004 12:29 AM)
keep it in a 20 gallon tank with excellent water parameters and the fish will have the same size as the fish living in a big pond?

personally, i doubt that statement.

Please read what I wrote again, I think I did mention a pond, how did 20 gallon comes in:P . Anyway to make it clearer, it is a big pond, it is big enought to house a floating basket and the ratio difference is big. Just to be even clearer let's say a 12 feet by 12 feet by 4 feet deep pond and the floating basket of 2ft cube.
The Matrix
QUOTE(nobnoba @ Thu 24 Jun 2004 12:29 AM)
If u say that the growth is the same, then SPACE is not a factor in the growth of a goldfish??? keep it in a 20 gallon tank with excellent water parameters and the fish will have the same size as the fish living in a big pond?

personally, i doubt that statement.

Ponder ponder ponder ..... HB favorite ...

If you have a part of the ocean, net up the place to hold your tuna. Will the tuna in the enclosed environment grow slower than those freely swimming in the ocean ? We will have to make quite a number of assumptions. So let say everything else is the same. You make the choice ...

If you keep 1 fish in a 20gal and another in 100gal, providing the same amount of food, same water change pattern, will that grow be the same ? Same again, let all other assumption be the same.

If you have an overflow system on 2 tier tanks. Top tank overflow to bottom and bottom tank pump back up to top. And you have another separate tank. All 3 tanks same capacity. If you put 1 fish in the top tank, and 1 fish in the separate tank, how would the growth be ? Will there be any diff if all 3 tanks are occupied by a fish ?
top_view_ranchu
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Wed 23 Jun 2004 09:39 AM)
I sometimes wonder what is the effect on a goldfish if it is house in a large tub but kept inside a small floating basket such that it can't move much yet the water quality is always excellent.

Would it continue to grow although it doesn't get to "exercise", or would only certain parts of the goldfish, such as the tails only, or the body only, continue to get larger and go out of proportion?

Anyone knows?

I'll not give myself that headache. Just get another tub!
Definitely fishes will grow to your expectation.
But wife's face might grow black. Can tell by mine!!! mad.gif
nobnoba
QUOTE(jhansolo @ Thu 24 Jun 2004 08:47 AM)
Please read what I wrote again, I think I did mention a pond, how did 20 gallon comes in:P .  Anyway to make it clearer, it is a big pond, it is big enought to house a floating basket and the ratio difference is big.  Just to be even clearer let's say a 12 feet by 12 feet by 4 feet deep pond and the floating basket of 2ft cube.

can we discuss this further. sorry, i dont mean to be stubborn, but actually trying to learn something here.

yes han solo, i understand u mention the pond. about the 20 gallon tank, i was reffering to the situation with the fish in the floating basket.

In the floating basket (assuming the basket floats still), the goldfish is limited in its swimming space, true? so doesnt it the same as a fish in a (lets say) 20 gallon tank? Therefore can we convincingly conclude that the fish in a 20 gallon tank and a fish in a pond, have the same growth? Assuming all else is the same, regarding the water parameter, only SPACE is the variable.

Mountain, what do you mean by same growth RATIO? if 2 inch fish grows to 4 inch in a pond, and a 2 inch fish grows to 4 inch in a tank, does it satisfy your statement, same growth ratio?
Seacucumber
QUOTE(nobnoba @ Thu 24 Jun 2004 03:22 PM)
can we discuss this further. sorry, i dont mean to be stubborn, but actually trying to learn something here.

yes han solo, i understand u mention the pond. about the 20 gallon tank, i was reffering to the situation with the fish in the floating basket.

In the floating basket (assuming the basket floats still), the goldfish is limited in its swimming space, true? so doesnt it the same as a fish in a (lets say) 20 gallon tank? Therefore can we convincingly conclude that the fish in a 20 gallon tank and a fish in a pond, have the same growth? Assuming all else is the same, regarding the water parameter, only SPACE is the variable.

Mountain, what do you mean by same growth RATIO? if 2 inch fish grows to 4 inch in a pond, and a 2 inch fish grows to 4 inch in a tank, does it satisfy your statement, same growth ratio?

hehehhe.....you're wrong...
smile.gif

to put it in a simpler way....
why is it that fishes reared in KELONG grow so fast??

its actually not its swimming space but the volume of water in its environment....
if you float a 1 ft basket in a 10 x 10 ft pond, the fish inside the basket will have the same growth rate as the free swimming ones......

BUT will outgrow another fish kept in a 1 ft tank.....
jhansolo
QUOTE(nobnoba @ Thu 24 Jun 2004 03:22 PM)
about the 20 gallon tank... In the floating basket (assuming the basket floats still), the goldfish is limited in its swimming space, true?

Seriously, get the 20 gallon out of your head and I think you will get the idea. The equation is volume of water for the free swimming and the one in the floating basket is the same. The answer is the growth rate is the same presuming everythingelse is equal.
HappyBuddha
Perhaps a picture will speak a thousand words.

IPB Image

This is a 180 litres tub with just one fish, a Ryukin with a deformed tails rofl2.gif.

The fish is confined in a 18 inch diameter floating basket.

The question was how would this fish developed compared to allowing it to roam freely in the large tub instead of confined in the tight floating basket, in both of which the water quality is IDENTICAL.

Side track: Note how calm the water is inside the basket. wink.gif
desireless
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Fri 25 Jun 2004 03:29 PM)
Side track: Note how calm the water is inside the basket.  wink.gif

I suppose that's how they rear tosakin
HappyBuddha
pecha lobang. bag.gif
Seacucumber
HB....
yours is a ryukin......not a tosakin...

wake up wake up.....kekekekee
HappyBuddha
morning...

6 more months to x'mas....

back to sleep.

nap1.gif1
LASERGUY
Butterfly ryukin ????!!!!!
RBT
Hi to all Bros,

Read an article few months back,an experiement was carried out with the regards to growth.

A freshwater trout was kept in a barrel with continious water flow,guess wat,the trout grew to as big as the barrel!!!(sorry can't remember complete details but it was my understanding n my lousy memory hehe)

As such i do believe both gfs will grow at the same speed,but with the possibility that the body tone may be different.i.e depends on the space, small space/no current flow, fish cannot move much may put on fat.

Whereas the fish with more space may swim up n down the water column may be lean n mean hehe.

Wait a minute!!! if 1 exercise n the other don't???may mean that 1 will put more(fat) n the other burn more( calories)-----WHICH means that it won't put on more body masse.

AIIIIYAHHHHH headache leh!!!!!!!!!
jhansolo
Based on this theory, can I conclude that if I put an reservoir / tank at the lower tier of my stand which increase the water surface aera and most importantly the volume of water.
CyberET
can ah smile.gif
square_guy
QUOTE(jhansolo @ Tue 29 Jun 2004 11:32 AM)
Based on this theory, can I conclude that if I put an reservoir / tank at the lower tier of my stand which increase the water surface aera and most importantly the volume of water.

yup! that's one of the benefits of using sump filtration.
yamato38gunkei
QUOTE(HappyBuddha @ Wed 23 Jun 2004 02:39 AM)
I sometimes wonder what is the effect on a goldfish if it is house in a large tub but kept inside a small floating basket such that it can't move much yet the water quality is always excellent.

Would it continue to grow although it doesn't get to "exercise", or would only certain parts of the goldfish, such as the tails only, or the body only, continue to get larger and go out of proportion?

Anyone knows?

Both fish will grow, but they will develop very differently. Their head, tail and body will develop differently.

Regards,

Geert Coppens
max
QUOTE(yamato38gunkei @ Tue 29 Jun 2004 02:37 PM)
Both fish will grow, but they will develop very differently.  Their head, tail and body will develop differently.

Regards,

Geert Coppens

Yeah, I suddenly remember reading it somewhere, the fish outside will experience overall growth particularly on the body part whereas the one in the floating basket due to the confined space, will have their growth concentrating more on the wen/cheek (in the case of ranchu).

My conclusion :- the ranchu on the outside with free swimming space will have longish body & small head development compared to the fish in the small floating basket which will have shorter, rounder & better wen/cheek development.

This is strictly my assumption, boh pow teoh one.
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