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> Water Change Vs Reverse Osmosis, Water Change vs Reverse Osmosis
ameister
post Mon, 20 Feb 2006 10:15 pm
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Let me post a theoretical question...

I understand the need to do regular water changes to remove some nitrates and growth inhibitors. What if we hook up a reverse osmosis system to the aquarium and cycling 20-30% of water through the reverse osmosis system on a weekly or twice a week. Any topping up could also go through the RO system.

If I am not mistaken, RO forces molecules via membrane as it purify the water. It can remove most bacteria, heavy metals and even sodium in some setups. A nitrate molecule is bigger than a sodium molecule, so nitrates will be removed. We can use plants to remove nitrates anyways. As for the growth inhibitor, it should be a large organic molecule and so easily removed by the RO system.

I have recently moved to a flat/apartment and if I were to setup an aquarium big enough for my liking, I dread the water change process that I will be getting myself into.

To all you Goldfish Gurus out there, I beg2.gif your advice, comments and suggestions.

peace.gif
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CyberET
post Mon, 20 Feb 2006 10:54 pm
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you may in the process filter out both the good stuffs, and the bad stuffs ;)
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goldrush
post Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:24 pm
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Reverse osmosis (RO) is a water purification process in which water is forced through a semi-permeable membrane that removes 90-99% of tap water impurities. The result is water free of minerals and other contaminants and that include all the essential minerals for the well being of your fishes as well.However bacteria are just too small to be filtered out so it is not an effective infective control.
Water change is still the best ,the most economical option and perhaps a part and parcel of our goldfish keeping biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
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The Matrix
post Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:51 pm
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to add on to what doc mentioned, RO water is close to pure water. which means that the water is low ionic, lack the buffering capacity and will cause your pH to plunge within a short period once expose to normal atmospheric air.

usually for use of a RO unit, you will hv to throw in some additives like buffering agent, calcifier and the important trace elements. anyway, you might like to experience using it and see what are the result you will be getting before investing more money.
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Bak2it
post Tue, 21 Feb 2006 12:11 am
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QUOTE(goldrush @ Mon, 20 Feb 2006 10:24 am)
Reverse osmosis (RO) is a water purification process in which water is forced through a semi-permeable membrane that removes 90-99% of tap water impurities. The result is water free of minerals and other contaminants and that include all the essential minerals for the well being of your fishes as well.However bacteria are just too small to be filtered out so it is not an effecive infective control.
Water change  is still the best ,the  most economical option and perhaps a part and parel  our goldfish keeping biggrin.gif  biggrin.gif  biggrin.gif
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I agree with the majority of Goldrush's post, especially about water changes being the best and most economical options. But there is no way a bacteria or a virus can make it through the membrane of a RO unit. The average size of the pores in a reverse osmosis membrane are only 0.0005 microns in size. Bacteria are from 0.2 - 1.0 and viruses are 0.02 - 0.4 micron in size.

The biggest draw back to trying to clean aquarium water with an RO unit is the amount of rejected water. A typical RO unit will process between 3 to 10 gallons of tank water to produce a single gallon of RO water.

If you'd like to check out some filter systems that ACTUALLY will work for virtually eliminating water changes, check out the filter systems made by Sea Visions.

http://www.seavisions.com/products.htm
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chanB
post Tue, 21 Feb 2006 9:45 am
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I had tried using a 10" 1.0um sediment filter for a 4ft tank. the filter choked in less the 24 hrs.
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gohks
post Tue, 21 Feb 2006 12:02 pm
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Seems water change is a must and is a tedious chores most of us hate and try to avoid mad.gif , since you are moving to new home, why don't ask your contractor to install auto top-up and draining system to your tank. I have seen some LFS with this draining and tapping system that make water change a piece of cake! yes.gif
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ameister
post Tue, 21 Feb 2006 7:59 pm
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QUOTE(gohks @ Tue, 21 Feb 2006 11:02 am)
Seems water change is a must and is a tedious chores most of us hate and try to avoid mad.gif , since you are moving to new home, why don't ask your contractor to install auto top-up and draining system to your tank.  I have seen some LFS with this draining and tapping system that make water change a piece of cake! yes.gif
*



Can't do, the new place is already done and already moved in unsure.gif. If I were to get the contractors in and do as you suggest, my lady boss at home will surely do evil things to me... biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

But also thanks to all the others for the comments and replies.

I did some further research and it seems an RO system takes in 1 inlet stream and discharges 2 outlet streams. The first would be your RO pure water and the second with the remain gunk in it.

So I did some thinking..... Can a RO system extend the length of time in between water changes.

The following is a schematic of what I am planning.

\"IPB


The RO membrane Unit would be something like this:

http://www.kentmarine.com/waterfilters/bbtfc.html maybe without the prefilter as the mechanical filter after the bio filter should do this function. Thanks to chanB for the info 1micron filter experience. What I will do post the bio filter is to install a multi stage mechanical filter. Maybe 100 microns, 80 microns and so on.. I think this should save the RO membrane fitler...

Thanks to all and penny for your thoughts.
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The Matrix
post Tue, 21 Feb 2006 11:13 pm
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QUOTE(gohks @ Tue, 21 Feb 2006 12:02 pm)
Seems water change is a must and is a tedious chores most of us hate and try to avoid mad.gif , since you are moving to new home, why don't ask your contractor to install auto top-up and draining system to your tank.  I have seen some LFS with this draining and tapping system that make water change a piece of cake! yes.gif
*


how much water u changing a week ? i never find it tedious, rather i find it fun and enjoy doing so.
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gohks
post Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:37 am
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QUOTE(The Matrix @ Tue, 21 Feb 2006 11:13 pm)
how much water u changing a week ? i never find it tedious, rather i find it fun and enjoy doing so.
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u know from my previous threads I seldom do water change nananana.gif what irk me is the weekly scrubbing of algea from the glasses to make my tank looks good. sad.gif since sucker fish is not a choice, any good recommendation on minimum cleaning of glass is welcome. smile.gif
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The Matrix
post Wed, 22 Feb 2006 1:12 pm
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QUOTE(gohks @ Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:37 am)
u know from my previous threads I seldom do water change  nananana.gif what irk me is the weekly scrubbing of algea from the glasses to make my tank looks good. sad.gif since sucker fish is not a choice, any good recommendation on minimum cleaning of glass is welcome. smile.gif
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then u should find out what make algae grow in your tank instead.
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top_view_ranchu
post Wed, 22 Feb 2006 2:17 pm
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QUOTE(The Matrix @ Tue, 21 Feb 2006 11:13 pm)
how much water u changing a week ? i never find it tedious, rather i find it fun and enjoy doing so.
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I fully agree, Mr Matrix! yes.gif
I'm changing slightly less than a Tonne every 4 days! Enjoying every moment of it and thats probably my only exercise! laugh.gif
I think my kids also enjoy the open and close tap portion! biggrin.gif

Regards,
David Hou
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CyberET
post Wed, 22 Feb 2006 3:00 pm
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haiz.. i can't tahan the water bill of changing almost the same volume as you. so my kois have to suffer pop eye yikes.gif
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gohks
post Wed, 22 Feb 2006 7:31 pm
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QUOTE(ameister @ Tue, 21 Feb 2006 7:59 pm)
Can't do, the new place is already done and already moved in  unsure.gif.  If I were to get the contractors in and do as you suggest, my lady boss at home will surely do evil things to me... biggrin.gif  biggrin.gif  biggrin.gif

[
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Convince your lady boss goldfish is a perfect healthy hobby that keeps man away from doing silly things that man likes to do, garaunteed she would let you do whatever you like next time ;)
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aronkhj
post Wed, 22 Feb 2006 9:35 pm
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Guys, i'm jus curious...

which gives you more pleasure... the fish or the hassle of keeping the fish??? ;)

and knowing sgp water cost, i think everytime you guys there change water can buy another fish!

shiok.gif
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